The possibility of LGBT characters in Project Eternity - Official Thread

[Pidesco]

All discussion on LGBT characters should now be done here, to avoid cluttering the forum. All other threads on the subject will be closed.

 

This thread is meant for posters who wish to see LGBT characters in the world of Project Eternity. Please remain civil.

[C2B]

Should exist. Treated respectfully and not being made a big deal of, but naturally integrated into the gameworld. Arcade was great in F:NV.

[Longknife]

Just copy-paste New Vegas' design philosophy in regards to this. Problem solved.

 

 

/thread

[Troller]

Just copy-paste New Vegas' design philosophy in regards to this. Problem solved.

 

 

/thread

I never really noticed there were homosexuals in New Vegas hahah.THIS IS UNNACEPTABLE we must have a whole town full of parading Transgender people, and if you don't check your privilege you will be beheaded in the name of equality!

[Entropious]

My answer is this. If even a single character is made to be bisexual, trisexual or quadrosexual just because some group "demanded" or "pleaded" for it, a game stops to be a work of art and immediately becomes a product, like Pepsi. And I still consider most RPG's of old works of art, as already mentioned previously.

[Jaesun]

All discussion on LGBT characters should now be done here, to avoid cluttering the forum. All other threads on the subject will be closed.

 

This thread is meant for posters who wish to see LGBT characters in the world of Project Eternity. Please remain civil.

 

Thank you :salute:

[C2B]

My answer is this. If even a single character is made to be bisexual, trisexual or quadrosexual just because some group "demanded" or "pleaded" for it, a game stops to be a work of art and immediately becomes a product, like Pepsi. And I still consider most RPG's of old works of art, as already mentioned previously.

 

Sawyer is very open to get said charachters integrated. So, I don't think that would be a problem in the first place.

[WDeranged]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I agree with the above comments, New Vegas kept it really classy with regards to homosexuality.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Should exist - to play out the interesting stories, such as:

 

Gay scion of ancient sacred warrior family, who cannot continue his legacy without going against his orientation.

Lesbian businesswoman who cannot own property without being married.

 

There are cool stories to be told about homosexuality in a medieval-esque fantasy setting. I'd like to see those stories told in a RPG. There's a lot of unexplored territory that Obsidian could use to tell new, exciting stories.

[Concerned Reader]

I guess I'll just pull this over from the other thread then.

 

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

 

I had to google that because I have no recollection of these bioware races -- the pictures I got look like blue women with tentacles on their heads. Imagine looking at that from high above, from the isometric perspective. Would it look like a blue woman with tentacles on her head or a non-gender being? What does a non-gender being look like anyway?

 

 

Modrons are asexual/non-gendered, I believe! And Nordom was cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute.

 

You'd need a design which specifically avoids things that invokes the Bipedal Sentient Species With Sexual Dimorphism image, but it can be done. There's a lot of non-sexually dimorphic animals IRL to look for inspiration, too, if necessary.

 

The downside of this is that it'd make said species a little, er, exotic.

On the topic of asexuality, I do also like the idea of a genderless or sexless species. The Salarians from Mass Effect are a good example of a gendered species that doesn't really have a concept of a sex drive. Another good example is the aliens from District 9, where they were actually physically asexual, and had a self contained reproductive system. Elemental beings could also be a good example. Their culture in and of itself might be drastically different because they have no concept of conception in the biological sense. No patriarchy or matriarchy.

 

Gender roles influence a lot more of our culture than people realise.

 

The problem I have with the asari is that they still express a massive amount of feminine biological design. They literally look like blue women with large breasts and head tentacles. From a design standpoint, it doesn't really support the idea of their (mostly) asexual reproductive method. I know that it's a trade off between catering to the scifi trope and designing an original alien culture, but it still feels too much like bisexual space babes included to titilate heterosexual male gamers. (Rather than being designed and influenced by their own culture, they were influenced by ours.)

 

And I know I'm going to get people griping that I want my cake while also eating it. It's a tricky balance between drawing inspiration from our own culture, while also letting the newly created culture build upon itself to become something new.

[PN8YTV]

New Vegas was fine regarding this. Make it like it is there. Problem solved.

[Undecaf]

Should exist. Treated respectfully and not being made a big deal of, but naturally integrated into the gameworld. Arcade was great in F:NV.

 

I wouldn't say they necessarily "should exist" (could would be the word I'd use) as that sounds - to me at least - too much like they are specifically required, but I do agree with the rest of the post.

[Entropious]

Should exist - to play out the interesting stories, such as:

 

Gay scion of ancient sacred warrior family, who cannot continue his legacy without going against his orientation.

Lesbian businesswoman who cannot own property without being married.

 

There are cool stories to be told about homosexuality in a medieval-esque fantasy setting. I'd like to see those stories told in a RPG. There's a lot of unexplored territory that Obsidian could use to tell new, exciting stories.

 

Actually, during the Middle Ages, a single woman COULD own her own business.

[Auxilius]

I'm not even following the issue but I know there have been at least four threads on the matter.

Why are LGBT people so adamant about this? Is this ionsecurity at work or what? I don't see gypsies or hinduists trying to fight for their representation in games.

We're truly living in an era of peace if it's the biggest matter, if only on the Obsidian forums.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

My answer is this. If even a single character is made to be bisexual, trisexual or quadrosexual just because some group "demanded" or "pleaded" for it, a game stops to be a work of art and immediately becomes a product, like Pepsi. And I still consider most RPG's of old works of art, as already mentioned previously.

 

You could say that about any of the ideas on this forum :/

[Concerned Reader]

I'm not even following the issue but I know there have been at least four threads on the matter.

Why are LGBT people so adamant about this? Is this ionsecurity at work or what? I don't see gypsies or hinduists trying to fight for their representation in games.

We're truly living in an era of peace if it's the biggest matter, if only on the Obsidian forums.

Actually, the reason there have been so many threads is because the actual discussion is drowned out by kneejerk reactions and trolls. It's a very volatile subject, and should be handled with respect. Both within the game, and within the game community. Unfortunately only one of these is probably going to happen.

[RosesandAshes]

If you ask me, it shouldn't be a possibility--it should be a given.

[Troller]

My answer is this. If even a single character is made to be bisexual, trisexual or quadrosexual just because some group "demanded" or "pleaded" for it, a game stops to be a work of art and immediately becomes a product, like Pepsi. And I still consider most RPG's of old works of art, as already mentioned previously.

 

You could say that about any of the ideas on this forum :/

No, because having a different rule for Bashing and Slashing weapons doesn't make the game a political statement.

[evdk]

I'm not even following the issue but I know there have been at least four threads on the matter.

Why are LGBT people so adamant about this? Is this ionsecurity at work or what? I don't see gypsies or hinduists trying to fight for their representation in games.

We're truly living in an era of peace if it's the biggest matter, if only on the Obsidian forums.

LGBT people are looking for acceptance, cis scum is looking for good trolling targets. Cue 15 pages worth of fun and games.

 

On topic: If it's done like in New Vegas I don't care.

[Rostere]

Like I have stated earlier, I'd rather see PC options dealing with sexuality as a whole to be rather downtoned. This is not a dating simulator and I want the player's options to express sexuality to be limited, regardless of orientation.

 

However, there are interesting themes within sexuality to explore from a societal and cultural point of view. Those of us who have read Ursula K. Le Guin's "Left Hand of Darkness" will know what I'm talking about.

[Concerned Reader]

No, because having a different rule for Bashing and Slashing weapons doesn't make the game a political statement.

Neither does including a people group. And technically, excluding the people group doesn't make the game a political statement either. It just makes it that much less colorful and diverse by design. And diversity is something I look for in a game.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Concerned Reader

[Entropious]

And it doesn't piss off 80% of the people playing the game, once they realise (and it's pretty clear in this case) that it has been forced in by a pressure group. Additionally, one accusing those who disagree of a mental illness (so-called homophobia is considered one).

 

By the way, I got my first formal warning. A toast!

Edited September 20, 2012 by Entropious

[Concerned Reader]

However, there are interesting themes within sexuality to explore from a societal and cultural point of view. Those of us who have read Ursula K. Le Guin's "Left Hand of Darkness" will know what I'm talking about.

I keep meaning to read Le Guin, but I never get around to it.

 

This is really what I'd love this thread to be about though. Because the themes that can be explored are interesting and varied. Sexuality isn't just about what you do with your genitals. Let's just remove that argument entirely. Romance is an entirely different subject, for an entirely different thread.

[Darth Trethon]

Frankly I rather not go down this road. Oh I feel so discriminated because my preference isn't in the game.....I like women with ____ bra size, ____ hair color, ____ inches tall and let me tell you about what positions we should be doing it in.

 

At the end of the day it's not exactly fair but I'll just say it the way it is: would you rather have 90%+ of your player base feel disturbed/molested by all the various types of NPCs telling us all about what it means to be in x sexual group to please less than 10% who are still likely to complain anyway because they fell that you missrepresented their group or didn't implement it exactly the way they expected you to.

 

Yeah I get it, they're few and feel isolated from society because not many people float that way but that does NOT mean that their issues need to become everyone's problem. Hell I have plenty of non sexually-related reasons that make me feel isolated from society and all alone in the big mean world but you don't see me capaigning to have them brought to everyone's attention and made everyone's problem. That's what social groups are for where you can go and socialize with like-minded people and deal with your issues without trying to make them everyone's problem like everyone else doesn't have their own problems to deal with.

 

Please Obsidian, I beg you, do NOT start going down this road.

[Troller]

I'm not even following the issue but I know there have been at least four threads on the matter.

Why are LGBT people so adamant about this? Is this ionsecurity at work or what? I don't see gypsies or hinduists trying to fight for their representation in games.

We're truly living in an era of peace if it's the biggest matter, if only on the Obsidian forums.

LGBT people are looking for acceptance, cis scum is looking for good trolling targets. Cue 15 pages worth of fun and games.

 

On topic: If it's done like in New Vegas I don't care.

No, "cis scum" just want the LGBT to mind their own business like everyone else, and stop causing unecessary chaos.

 

Josh Sawyer included LGBT people in Fallout New Vegas, and he is the leader of this project, so, most likely there will be some in this game too, but why do you guys gotta keep annoying us with this LGBT pride parade here, yeah you guys are homosexuals, so what? is that supposed to be a big deal or something?

Really, I'm trying to understand how you all think.