President Obama

[Hurlshort]

There's growth but it's slow, and it could be argued that the focus on Healthcare certainly hurt the recovery. I said it from day one that it's just bad management to do such a thing during bad economic times - simply illogical, it stunts real growth and everyone who passed that bill knew it would do so, they just wanted to be a part of "history". I'm voting for neither of these guys, even though I think Romney would be better for the economy(though that's certainly no sure bet), but his foreign policy would be awful and he'll be mostly controlled on that front much like Obama is.

 

Most of the stuff from Obamacare hasn't actually been enacted yet.

Yes, because when a business owner is thinking about hiring someone on part or full time they only think about the immediate costs. They never look 6 months to a few years down the road and figure their costs. Oh wait, that's EXACTLY what they do.

 

First off, businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt. The Obama Administration has done a terrible job of making that clear, but it's true. Honestly most of the small business owners I know who keep railing about the reform have around 10 employees, and I just roll my eyes at them. They aren't in a position to hire 40 new employees regardless.

 

Secondly, if you already offer insurance to your employees, this will possibly lower your costs. There are many exemptions and tax credits, and it depends on what type of plan you already have.

 

A growing business isn't going to purposefully stagnate themselves because of these costs. That is bad business.

 

I have my own problems with Obamacare. I don't like the idea of the government running an insurance company. But this bluster from business owners is silly. There are costs to running a business, and providing health care is now going to be one of them.

[Calax]

There's growth but it's slow, and it could be argued that the focus on Healthcare certainly hurt the recovery. I said it from day one that it's just bad management to do such a thing during bad economic times - simply illogical, it stunts real growth and everyone who passed that bill knew it would do so, they just wanted to be a part of "history". I'm voting for neither of these guys, even though I think Romney would be better for the economy(though that's certainly no sure bet), but his foreign policy would be awful and he'll be mostly controlled on that front much like Obama is.

 

Do you even understand basic economics? In order for the economy to grow, money has to be spent. The private sector is obviously reluctant to do so, so we have to at least do some with the governments.

 

It's hilarious that you call the Clintons "Warmongering" given that during the Clinton administration there was only an armed intervention within the former Yugoslav Republics that led to the first war crimes trial of a had of state, and a 4 day airstrike campaign against Iraq for it's failure to follow the UN procedures that it agreed to. Iraq was a dog and pony show completely by the executive branch, with disregard to the War Powers Act.

 

Understand, the Republicans blocked efforts to fix the economy, and instead spent a day "Reaffirming that "In God We Trust" is the official motto of the United States" because they think Obama will turn us godless.

 

Money doesn't have to be spent, it has to be invested.. You don't grow an economy by blindly throwing money into systems and hoping for the best.

 

Hillary is certainly a warmongerer. What do you think she's been doing this whole time in the middle east? She's really no different than a right winger, but go ahead and pretend she is just because she plays ball on your team..

Even if you take the idea that you need to INVEST your money... that still requires the money to be within the American system, and not tucked away in the Caymans, Monte Carlo, or some other tax haven.... or even just another nation because your company is multinational, so you just put most of the money in wherever has the lowest taxes.

 

As to Clinton, She's the Sec State... her entire job is to go somewhere that we have issues and sort them out with the government there, which means that usually wherever she goes either calms down, or gets amped up in response to her being there because the locals either like or don't like US intervention.

 

I think one of the things a lot of people understand about the nations that are run by "strongmen" is that those nations are only held together by their hatred of their leader, and his oppression. Once that is lifted, the various groups will remember that they hate each other too and start fighting (for example the Muslim factions and Kurds in Iraq).

[Calax]

I do want to say, after having seen it tonight, I think that the Jon Stewart and O'Reilly "Rumble" is very indicitive of the conversation we're having within our political process. Where both sides see the same facts through SUCH different lenses, that they cannot accept that they might mean one thing that's averse to their position.

[ravenshrike]

Aaaand Obama just lost the election.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/10/bombshell-obama-state-dept-withdrew-16-member-special-forces-security-team-from-libya-one-month-before-attack-video/

http://www.ktvq.com/news/congress-to-probe-security-flaws-for-libya-diplomats/

 

CBS News has learned that congressional investigators have issued a subpoena to a former top security official at the US mission in Libya. The official is Lt. Col. Andy Wood, a Utah National Guard Army Green Beret who headed up a Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya.

Lt. Col. Andy Wood led a 16-member Special Forces site security team responsible for protecting U.S. personnel in Libya.

The subpoena compels Lt. Col. Wood to appear at a House Oversight Committee hearing next week that will examine security decisions leading up to the Sept. 11 Muslim extremist terror assault on the U.S. compound at Benghazi. U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three of his colleagues were killed in the attack.

Lt. Col. Wood has told CBS News and congressional investigators that his 16-member team and a six-member State Department elite force called a Mobile Security Deployment team left Libya in August, just one month before the Benghazi assault. Wood says that's despite the fact that US officials in Libya wanted security increased, not decreased.

Wood says he met daily with Stevens and that security was a constant challenge. There were 13 threats or attacks on western diplomats and officials in Libya in the six months leading up to the September 11 attack.

A senior State Department official told CBS News that half of the 13 incidents before September 11 were fairly minor or routine in nature, and that the Benghazi attack was so lethal and overwhelming, that a diplomatic post would not be able to repel it.

Wood, whose team arrived in February, says he and fellow security officials were very worried about the chaos on the ground. He says they tried to communicate the danger to State Department officials in Washington, D.C., but that the officials denied requests to enhance security.

[Calax]

Aaaand Obama just lost the election.

http://www.thegatewa...e-attack-video/

http://www.ktvq.com/...ibya-diplomats/

 

CBS News has learned that congressional investigators have issued a subpoena to a former top security official at the US mission in Libya. The official is Lt. Col. Andy Wood, a Utah National Guard Army Green Beret who headed up a Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya.

Lt. Col. Andy Wood led a 16-member Special Forces site security team responsible for protecting U.S. personnel in Libya.

The subpoena compels Lt. Col. Wood to appear at a House Oversight Committee hearing next week that will examine security decisions leading up to the Sept. 11 Muslim extremist terror assault on the U.S. compound at Benghazi. U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three of his colleagues were killed in the attack.

Lt. Col. Wood has told CBS News and congressional investigators that his 16-member team and a six-member State Department elite force called a Mobile Security Deployment team left Libya in August, just one month before the Benghazi assault. Wood says that's despite the fact that US officials in Libya wanted security increased, not decreased.

Wood says he met daily with Stevens and that security was a constant challenge. There were 13 threats or attacks on western diplomats and officials in Libya in the six months leading up to the September 11 attack.

A senior State Department official told CBS News that half of the 13 incidents before September 11 were fairly minor or routine in nature, and that the Benghazi attack was so lethal and overwhelming, that a diplomatic post would not be able to repel it.

Wood, whose team arrived in February, says he and fellow security officials were very worried about the chaos on the ground. He says they tried to communicate the danger to State Department officials in Washington, D.C., but that the officials denied requests to enhance security.

 

How? His predecessor had significantly more insane security lapses (you know, the original 9/11 where his director of national security said that she had recieved a brief on plots by al queda to attack the USA, and there were serious breeches conserning how they got pilot training etc.

 

And he's running against somebody for whom wood looks softer, and is known to consider most of the citizenry to be slackers who mooch off the system.

[ravenshrike]

Aaaand Obama just lost the election.

http://www.thegatewa...e-attack-video/

http://www.ktvq.com/...ibya-diplomats/

 

CBS News has learned that congressional investigators have issued a subpoena to a former top security official at the US mission in Libya. The official is Lt. Col. Andy Wood, a Utah National Guard Army Green Beret who headed up a Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya.

Lt. Col. Andy Wood led a 16-member Special Forces site security team responsible for protecting U.S. personnel in Libya.

The subpoena compels Lt. Col. Wood to appear at a House Oversight Committee hearing next week that will examine security decisions leading up to the Sept. 11 Muslim extremist terror assault on the U.S. compound at Benghazi. U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three of his colleagues were killed in the attack.

Lt. Col. Wood has told CBS News and congressional investigators that his 16-member team and a six-member State Department elite force called a Mobile Security Deployment team left Libya in August, just one month before the Benghazi assault. Wood says that's despite the fact that US officials in Libya wanted security increased, not decreased.

Wood says he met daily with Stevens and that security was a constant challenge. There were 13 threats or attacks on western diplomats and officials in Libya in the six months leading up to the September 11 attack.

A senior State Department official told CBS News that half of the 13 incidents before September 11 were fairly minor or routine in nature, and that the Benghazi attack was so lethal and overwhelming, that a diplomatic post would not be able to repel it.

Wood, whose team arrived in February, says he and fellow security officials were very worried about the chaos on the ground. He says they tried to communicate the danger to State Department officials in Washington, D.C., but that the officials denied requests to enhance security.

 

How? His predecessor had significantly more insane security lapses (you know, the original 9/11 where his director of national security said that she had recieved a brief on plots by al queda to attack the USA, and there were serious breeches conserning how they got pilot training etc.

 

And he's running against somebody for whom wood looks softer, and is known to consider most of the citizenry to be slackers who mooch off the system.

None of the briefs were at all specific(AQ is planning a major attack cannot be considered specific, and none of the security in place, even beefed up, would have stopped them from getting on the plane, especially with the complete lack of interagency cooperation at the time.) whereas 16 special forces with weapons heavier than PISTOLS sitting on the consulate could very well have dissuaded the attackers.

[Calax]

How does this magically loose him the election then? There is more at stake than just national/international security. Our economy, foreign policy in general, social issues, social security, tax reform, election reform, health care... All impact us far more than 4 guys dying across the seas.

 

I mean how many Muslims do you think have died in America, via organized (like the KKK and splinter crews) or disorganized groups? During the whole Neighborhood Watch BS, which has been totally forgotten, murders that were racially/ethnically/religiously motivated were basically ignored or used to give more coverage to a teen who got shot due to unfortunate circumstances. I understand that it's a tragic loss and is a blow to the US's international prestige (which is pretty low anyway) but realistically how does it effect the voter other than the fact that it's thrown in their face every 20 seconds because of the 24 hour news cycle?

[Gorth]

US politics is hard to understand for us outsiders sometimes WoW

 

[Lexx]

I saw that earlier, it sickens me that him and "Legitimate Rape" guy is on a ****ING SCIENCE COMITY.

 

I googled this and found this article about it. Pretty lol. "he believes abortion is justified in cases of rape and replies that rape does not result in pregnancy."

 

Always when I read such stuff, it comes from republicans. Are democrats in the US talking the same shait or is it only a republician thing? I mean, this stuff is so crazy, I can't believe that the US is "the best and mighty country" when such stuff comes up. If a politician in germany would even just hint at something like this, his career would be pretty much over.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Lexx

[Gfted1]

Always when I read such stuff, it comes from republicans. Are democrats in the US talking the same shait or is it only a republician thing? I mean, this stuff is so crazy, I can't believe that the US is "the best and mighty country" when such stuff comes up. If a politician in germany would even just hint at something like this, his career would be pretty much over.

 

In matters of evolution vs religon and abortion vs right to choose, Republican hands are tied. Long ago they hitched their horse to that wagon and theres no coming back on those two matters. Thats where their voter base lies and ever flopping on either of those stances whould cause a mass exodus of their constituents. And theres a lot of people that support those stances.

[WDeranged]

The Rumble 2012 - Jon Stewart vs. Bill O'Reilly Edited October 8, 2012 by WDeranged

[BruceVC]

I see that Time released pictures of Paul Ryan training at the gym, the general consensus is that it makes him appear fatuous and that it trivializes the images he needs to project as a serious politician. Personally I am supporting the Obama\Biden ticket but I think these photo's actually work for Romney\Ryan and he looks more normal and someone I can identify with. The image that Romney has for some is that he is not in touch with the masses, so these photo's for me go some way to changing that view.

 

What do you think these photos do for the image of Paul Ryan and therefore Romney?

Edited October 13, 2012 by BruceVC

[Calax]

I don't think it matters that much.The only way it'd really matter would be if the stuff he was training on was made out of homeless people or some other over the top "villain" fact.

 

Right now the biggest thing that's hurting Romney/Ryan is that they're smarmy arrogant jerks. Who, when fact check, it turns out that they've been lying through their teeth about much of what they said.

 

Thursdays debate between the VP's was probably a better indicator of things, Biden was doing his best to run over Ryan with his facts and questioning half the stuff Ryan said. It worked most of the time, with Biden managing to catch a couple of lies, lay out facts, and point out that, at least in military issues, you'll always be able to find a member of the armed forced who would say that things should have gone differently, and he and Obama are operating on the suggestions of the Joint Chiefs.

 

I still don't think that Romney/Ryan are going to win, Barack is a VERY good Orator, and will probably come out in the second presidential debate swinging like a crazy man.

[BruceVC]

I don't think it matters that much.The only way it'd really matter would be if the stuff he was training on was made out of homeless people or some other over the top "villain" fact.

 

Right now the biggest thing that's hurting Romney/Ryan is that they're smarmy arrogant jerks. Who, when fact check, it turns out that they've been lying through their teeth about much of what they said.

 

Thursdays debate between the VP's was probably a better indicator of things, Biden was doing his best to run over Ryan with his facts and questioning half the stuff Ryan said. It worked most of the time, with Biden managing to catch a couple of lies, lay out facts, and point out that, at least in military issues, you'll always be able to find a member of the armed forced who would say that things should have gone differently, and he and Obama are operating on the suggestions of the Joint Chiefs.

 

I still don't think that Romney/Ryan are going to win, Barack is a VERY good Orator, and will probably come out in the second presidential debate swinging like a crazy man.

 

Good points raised, I agree with almost everything you have said

 

I am hoping for a SERIOUS comeback from Obama in the next presidential debate

Edited October 13, 2012 by BruceVC

[ravenshrike]

I don't think it matters that much.The only way it'd really matter would be if the stuff he was training on was made out of homeless people or some other over the top "villain" fact.

 

Right now the biggest thing that's hurting Romney/Ryan is that they're smarmy arrogant jerks. Who, when fact check, it turns out that they've been lying through their teeth about much of what they said.

 

Thursdays debate between the VP's was probably a better indicator of things, Biden was doing his best to run over Ryan with his facts and questioning half the stuff Ryan said. It worked most of the time, with Biden managing to catch a couple of lies, lay out facts, and point out that, at least in military issues, you'll always be able to find a member of the armed forced who would say that things should have gone differently, and he and Obama are operating on the suggestions of the Joint Chiefs.

 

I still don't think that Romney/Ryan are going to win, Barack is a VERY good Orator, and will probably come out in the second presidential debate swinging like a crazy man.

So, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy jerks? Did we watch the same debate? Not to mention Biden outright LIED about his votes on Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention that he outright lied about the Libya situation. Not to mention that he failed to say that his wife was the one responsible for her car crash but that the Bidens and their lawyers ruined a man's life by claiming he was drunk and he had to take them to court over it. But yeah, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy arrogant ones.

[Hurlshort]

All four of them are pretty smarmy, it is a requirement for being a politician.

[Tigranes]

Yeah, I don't really get this "I want to be able to identify with them" thing. Think about the life they've led and the life they will lead. Of course they're not going to be in touch with the masses, or at least, not in the way that can be represented by going to a gym or trying to eat a greasy hot dog. I hardly think what America really needs is a guy who is truly in touch with the masses.

 

I still don't see Romney winning, though the first debate was a surprising defeat by Obama.

[Calax]

I don't think it matters that much.The only way it'd really matter would be if the stuff he was training on was made out of homeless people or some other over the top "villain" fact.

 

Right now the biggest thing that's hurting Romney/Ryan is that they're smarmy arrogant jerks. Who, when fact check, it turns out that they've been lying through their teeth about much of what they said.

 

Thursdays debate between the VP's was probably a better indicator of things, Biden was doing his best to run over Ryan with his facts and questioning half the stuff Ryan said. It worked most of the time, with Biden managing to catch a couple of lies, lay out facts, and point out that, at least in military issues, you'll always be able to find a member of the armed forced who would say that things should have gone differently, and he and Obama are operating on the suggestions of the Joint Chiefs.

 

I still don't think that Romney/Ryan are going to win, Barack is a VERY good Orator, and will probably come out in the second presidential debate swinging like a crazy man.

So, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy jerks? Did we watch the same debate? Not to mention Biden outright LIED about his votes on Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention that he outright lied about the Libya situation. Not to mention that he failed to say that his wife was the one responsible for her car crash but that the Bidens and their lawyers ruined a man's life by claiming he was drunk and he had to take them to court over it. But yeah, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy arrogant ones.

Neither Biden or Obama had that CONSTANT smug smile plastered on their faces.

 

Right now, one of the points against the Ryan Romney ticket is that they haven't managed to show that they can do what they're claiming they can. They won't tell us the "Math" they're swearing by, but just want us to know its there (even though the four biggest "loopholes" that are in use have been kicked out of being closed), and that they can cut spending, raise the Defense budget, and lower taxes without increasing the debt.

[BruceVC]

Yeah, I don't really get this "I want to be able to identify with them" thing. Think about the life they've led and the life they will lead. Of course they're not going to be in touch with the masses, or at least, not in the way that can be represented by going to a gym or trying to eat a greasy hot dog. I hardly think what America really needs is a guy who is truly in touch with the masses.

 

I still don't see Romney winning, though the first debate was a surprising defeat by Obama.

 

I find your view a little jaded and cynical Tigranes. I mean are you seriously telling us that you aren't managing a hedge fund that is worth several hundred million dollars? I didn't think so !!! Of course you identify with these politicians

[Hurlshort]

Well I've always suspected the moderators are all wealthy millionaires living on their own private islands.

[Guard Dog]

I really don't have time to go through this whole thread but I'll just say that for the 2012 US Presidential election Guard Dog endorses and is voting for......Mitt Romney & Paul Ryan.

 

I know that will shock most of you...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Is it weird that I really don't care much anymore? I mean, I'm voting against Romney because it seems that the only thing he actually believes in is that he should be president, but at the moment I don't care who wins.

[Humodour]

So, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy jerks?

 

Correct. I'm glad you were finally able to pick up on that. There is hope yet.

[Hurlshort]

Is it weird that I really don't care much anymore? I mean, I'm voting against Romney because it seems that the only thing he actually believes in is that he should be president, but at the moment I don't care who wins.

 

That is good. People make way too much about who is in office, these guys are very limited in what they can do.

[AGX-17]

So, Ryan and Romney are the smarmy jerks?

 

Correct. I'm glad you were finally able to pick up on that. There is hope yet.

 

I've got a publicity shot of the Romney family around somewhere, depicting them doing the "normal people" act of "having a pizza party," Romney is in a suit, his children cramped next to him on a couch in pajama bottoms (none looking remotely pleased or happy,) several open boxes of pizza, half empty, sit on the coffee table before them. Not a single Romney has a plate, a drink, or a slice of pizza. My wager? The aides just took a bunch of slices of pizza and threw them in the garbage.

Edited October 14, 2012 by AGX-17