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The Sharmat

[Merged] Gods save us another romance thread

For people who are NOT apathetic or opposed to romances in games:  

455 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you willing to sacrifice romances as a feature if it drew significant resources from other story features?

  2. 2. Are you willing to sacrifice romances as a feature if it drew significant resources from gameplay design?

  3. 3. Would you still want romance options in the game even if your hypothetical favorite NPC did not end up being available?



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Which just leads me to the conclusion that the BSN are not game related forums but a form of collective therapy.

Edited by Drowsy Emperor
  • Like 2

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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I'm fine with romances as long as they don't stuff homosexuality down our throats like in Mass Effect or Skryim

What was throat-stuffing homosexually in Skyrim ? I must have missed it.

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*Sigh* Presence of BSN is getting stronger every day, endless romance threads, official LGBT thread, only two things are missing: 'philosophers' discussing same meaningless Choices over and over again, and teammate sectarians.

To not be off-topic, I don't need any romances, but if there will be some funny ones, I'll check them.

 

There are almost no specifics about gameplay and story, so it's no wonder people are talking about stuff like that, and both issues are highly controversial LGBT because LGBT is always controversial, romances because of people who want to know how Tali's sweat tastes like.

 

@Drowsy Emperor:

Proving that romances aren't necessary in RPGs doesn't require posts that long, just some name dropping. Fallout, BG1, ID, ID2, Morrowind all were good without them. On the other hand I wouldn't call PS:T a game without romances just because it doesn't have standard Bioware's juvenile ****fest.

 

The people clamoring for romances are so persistent only a foot long post will keep them at bay. For 10 minutes anyway.

 

But it does nothing to convince people who want romances but don't think they are essential (like me), and people who think they are a must won't be convinced no matter how long a post is so it's a waste of time to waste energy like this.

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I'm fine with romances as long as they don't stuff homosexuality down our throats like in Mass Effect or Skryim

 

What about stuffing heterosexuality down people's throats?

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Something stirs within...

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The smugness of the anti-romance people is becoming stifling.

 

Dial it back a bit, perhaps?

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Romances are an integral part of those classic RPGs that Obsidian want to revive.

 

No, they are not. In any way. Take the "romance" out of PS:T and what do you have? The same game minus something completely innocuous, minor and unimportant.

 

PS:T had romance? I would call some small dialog choices with Annah and FFG romance.

Edited by Bill Gates' Son

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Romances are an integral part of those classic RPGs that Obsidian want to revive.

 

No, they are not. In any way. Take the "romance" out of PS:T and what do you have? The same game minus something completely innocuous, minor and unimportant.

 

PS:T had romance? I would call some small dialog choices with Annah and FFG romance.

...that and...oh, say half of the main theme / motivation of the whole game (Deionarra). No biggie.

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I'm fine with romances as long as they don't stuff homosexuality down our throats like in Mass Effect or Skryim

What was throat-stuffing homosexually in Skyrim ? I must have missed it.

 

Well it's not stuffed down your throat, but it is pretty much a stupid marriage simulator with DA2 like player-sexual NPCs that you only had a few conversations with. Hell I would go as far as to say that some needed less than Anders in DA2, which pretty much flirts with Hawke in the second conversation you got just after reqruiting him.

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Its a sort of misconception that seems to spring out of thin air and wishful thinking.

 

Of all the Infinity engine classics only Baldur's Gate II had romances, and it would have been just as fantastic without them. And frankly, even though its my favorite game I can't help but notice that out of the 4 romances it had, only one was decent (Jaheira) the others were simply bad (Aerie, Anomen) or practically comic relief (Viconia). In the end, it didn't matter much because they were a tiny insignificant speck in a huge game.

 

So no, romance is not an integral part of the classics Obs is trying to revive.

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И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Romances are an integral part of those classic RPGs that Obsidian want to revive.

 

No, they are not. In any way. Take the "romance" out of PS:T and what do you have? The same game minus something completely innocuous, minor and unimportant.

 

PS:T had romance? I would call some small dialog choices with Annah and FFG romance.

...that and...oh, say half of the main theme / motivation of the whole game (Deionarra). No biggie.

 

Deionarra is not a motivation or even a major part of the plot, she's just another casualty of TNO. There is no romancing to speak of, its just a non interactive story/quest the PC goes through and can give an outcome to. Its very well done, but its got nothing to do with BW style romance.


И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

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Romances are essentially mini-games, and I dislike them for that reason alone. They have nothing to do with the plot. They have nothing to do with the combat. They take development time away from the important game mechanics that actually make the game fun to play. If the only reason you play 'modern' cRPGs is the romances then you aren't really interested in RPGs. You are just playing for a Sims-like experience, in which case wouldn't it be better to just play The Sims if that's what you are after?

 

Romance/sex simulation is not why I play cRPGs. I play for the strategic combat and/or the story. Those two things are hard enough to do, even with huge budgets, that I can nearly count the number of great cRPGs on the fingers of one hand. Why introduce various mini-games that take development time away from the important stuff? The core values of an RPG experience. Especially in a game like this with a very limited budget and very short 18 month development cycle I really don't want to see the devs wasting any time at all on mini-games like romances.

 

One possible solution to the problem of the diversion of core-RPG game mechanics to a mini-game is to encourage the fans themselves to write romances. Throw the female and homosexual gamers a bone by allowing them upload their own romance add-ons or if romance mini-games must be included then add them in after the game is completed and offer them as DLCs. That's really where they belong because, even if you enjoy faux-romance with sprites, it is an inherently extranous feature. An extra. Perfect for DLCs. Then everyone wins. The romance-lover faction gets some nice big romances to play and the rest of us don't have to suffer with lesser combat and/or story because of it.

Edited by metiman

JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

.
.

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When I think of a Role Playing Experience I want the experience to be an immersive one where characters in the games especially those that join with your PC have meaningful dialog and dynamic relationships that have small or large impacts on the fantasy world. I’ve seen threads that ask the questions about the quality of these companion relationships vs. quantity and the quality is generally favored by more players based on the feedback.

 

With that in mind, I want the developers to feel that whatever stories and ideas motivate and excite them when it comes to designing companions, please go for it. You will always write best when your heart is in it. Personally I hope this includes unexpected relationships between the companions and between the PC and the companions. I would love to see a friendship develop between a PC and a companion that is carefully written and prepared and is as genuine and meaningful as what I saw form between Andy Dufresne and Red in The Shawshank Redemption. The game I want to play would run full the gambit emotions between jealousy, betrayal, humor, anger, joy, shock, love, loyalty, fear, lust, humility, and sorrow. I want to be surprised and inspired by what Obsidian’s designers and writers come up with and I hope they have fun getting to that place.

 

I want the designers to feel they have freedom to make a quality game they believe in and this Kickstarter publishing drive really does give them an exciting opportunity to do just that. I’ve supported it from day one with my $65 (I wish it could have been more) and I will not take pull that money if Obsidian decides they don’t want to add something to the game I feel passionately about. I do appreciate that they’re listening and I hope they’re happy with the direction us players are encouraging in our feedback.

 

I do want to address one more aspect of role playing that for whatever reason a very vocal minority are single-mindedly against. There are more than a few locked threads on whether romance should be in the game or not and I’ve seen poles on this board which clearly shows that more players want them than don’t by almost a 3:1 margin (with 530 votes 73% were in favor of some sort of Romance option compared to 27% that wanted nothing). I know the designers are listening, but I hope they’re paying attention to what the majority are asking for and not becoming focused on who is yelling the loudest. That said, if the designers don’t think they can do justice to a romance option or they don’t really enjoy writing them I hope they choose the route that fits best for them.

 

More than anything I want to play a quality game. Quality in my opinion isn’t sacrificed by more opportunities with companion dialog and companion quests it is enhanced. I feel a lot of false choices are being thrown around and it is disheartening. I love all aspects of an RPG and so often they are only hack and slash adventures. My only concern is there is a concerted effort being made to limit the choices a player can make in a role-playing game.

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I'm fine with romances as long as they don't stuff homosexuality down our throats like in Mass Effect or Skryim

What was throat-stuffing homosexually in Skyrim ? I must have missed it.

 

Well it's not stuffed down your throat, but it is pretty much a stupid marriage simulator with DA2 like player-sexual NPCs that you only had a few conversations with. Hell I would go as far as to say that some needed less than Anders in DA2, which pretty much flirts with Hawke in the second conversation you got just after reqruiting him.

 

Yeah it didn't take much. If I remember correctly, all you needed to do was one side quest, for whichever NPC you could marry, and bam you were in the game. A poorly implemented, contrived mini-game, if you will. It was terrible.

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@Metiman: you are basically arguing not against romances but against point based influence system and romances doesn't have to be based on that. And they are a part of a story that some people finds fun so I don't know what's wrong with that. I understand that you are for removal of all interaction within the party because all of your arguments could be applied to them as well.

 

You are just playing for a Sims-like experience, in which case wouldn't it be better to just play The Sims if that's what you are after?

 

Classical strawman argument. How hard it is to understand that people who like romances are the people who liked romances in past Obsidian games and Baldur's Gate 2 and would like to see more of them and not lonely creeps. Also, the whole "people who want romances play the game only for romances and don't care about other aspects" is retarded and not backed-up by anything but the creepiest people form Bioware forum.

Edited by BasaltineBadger

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Romances are an integral part of those classic RPGs that Obsidian want to revive.

 

No, they are not. In any way. Take the "romance" out of PS:T and what do you have? The same game minus something completely innocuous, minor and unimportant.

 

PS:T had romance? I would call some small dialog choices with Annah and FFG romance.

...that and...oh, say half of the main theme / motivation of the whole game (Deionarra). No biggie.

 

Deionarra is not a motivation or even a major part of the plot, she's just another casualty of TNO. There is no romancing to speak of, its just a non interactive story/quest the PC goes through and can give an outcome to. Its very well done, but its got nothing to do with BW style romance.

What Deinoarra is to TNO you only learn late in the game...and one might argue that finding that out actually is a rather big motivation to the player. "BW style romance" ...yeah...what is it with that misconception that anyone who wants to see romance implemented in PE wants "BW style romance" ?

Edited by BSoda

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I really wish my thread hadn't been merged with this completely biased and false choice pole masquerading as a thread on whether romance options should be included in the game. I specifically chose not to comment or add input in this pole for a reason.

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Hmm. I'd be partial to a romantic subplot, but - depending on the probable time span of the game - I'd like a more subtle, hinted romance a la Annah and Fall From Grace, since its lack of outright Shakeapearian declarations of Eternal Love, etc, allowed for a more open interpretation of both the end and the relations between characters. If it could be integrated seamlessly into the general characterization/banter of the character, it'd be great. In short, full characters, with a hint of something more, if persued through dialogue. Make my imagination fill the gaps with whatever meaning I'd like. Eh. I'm rambling.

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PS:T had romance? I would call some small dialog choices with Annah and FFG romance.

 

S'why I put the word in quotes.

 

...that and...oh, say half of the main theme / motivation of the whole game (Deionarra). No biggie.

 

I hate to do this since you seem so proud of your response, but I already responded to that bit of point-missing here:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60404-merged-gods-save-us-another-romance-thread/page__st__80#entry1198013

 

and in greater detail here:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60404-merged-gods-save-us-another-romance-thread/page__st__80#entry1198048

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Nothing is a must, and romances especially.

 

Torment is easily one of the best RPG's ever made (personally it stands alongside BGII as the ultimate RPG for me), and it had no player led romances to speak of.

Let me list what it did have:

 

a) One love story you could give a resolution to by the time you reached the finale (Deionarra)

b) Two attractions that were not about the PC romancing anyone but more about pointing out the strange power of his condition (Annah and Fall From Grace). And the latter was not explicitly stated , just hinted at.

All of these combined had maybe two dozen lines of dialog overall.

 

This proves you can have both a good RPG and a great story without Bioware style romance minigames, leading us to the obvious conclusion that romances aren't necessary at all.

 

It also proves you can successfully include love as a theme in the form non interactive storytelling (there was no real player choice regarding Deionarra, just one that gave a conclusion to the matter - towards the end).

If the designers feel that love is a part of the story they want to tell they should include it.

 

What they should not do is throw some half baked minigame consisting of a few lines of dialog seemingly lifted from a hentai adventure just to meet the expectations of those who want project eternity to be another Bioware game.

 

Dragon Age 2 shows what happens in this regard when you let unreasonable player demands run the show instead of the designers following their own vision, so lets not have another DA2 hmm?

 

This. One thousand times this. I loved the Deionnara part of the PS:T story. The tragedy of the ghost who still loved a mortal was a powerful and beautiful element. I am against mini-game, Bioware style romances which are not part of the main story (except as DLC content), but I am certainly not against the main plot that has characters who love each other. MotB had that too and it was just a part of the plot.


JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

.
.

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I really wish my thread hadn't been merged with this completely biased and false choice pole masquerading as a thread on whether romance options should be included in the game. I specifically chose not to comment or add input in this pole for a reason.

 

Oh dear what a shame. Btw, the word is "poll", for the record.

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It's kind of discouraging that threads about romances are generating more interest than threads about companions archetypes/depth of backstory or the technology rampant in the world or any of a dozen items that should be more important than whether or not the PC can sex it up with a pixelated vixen.


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Thanks for the spelling correction, I wrote it as poll, but for some reason that didn't feel right. That said, I would appreciate a more respectful correction in the future. I agree with you it really is a shame because this poll is everything I said in my statement. That part of my statement despite the spelling error I still stand by. This thread is meant to obfuscate from the number of people who actually want to see romance options in the game. I don't support these silly distractions polls.

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It's kind of discouraging that threads about romances are generating more interest than threads about companions archetypes/depth of backstory or the technology rampant in the world or any of a dozen items that should be more important than whether or not the PC can sex it up with a pixelated vixen.

A lot of the posts are from the same people. On both sides of the discussion. People speaking against it generate just as much continued discussion as those speaking for.
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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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It's kind of discouraging that threads about romances are generating more interest than threads about companions archetypes/depth of backstory or the technology rampant in the world or any of a dozen items that should be more important than whether or not the PC can sex it up with a pixelated vixen.

 

Nothing about what I wrote in a separate thread was about sex with a pixelated vixen. I wrote about meaningful interactions with companions on many levels but my thread got merged here because it also mentioned romances. I guess this thread is like a black hole for anything slightly connected to romance comments.

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