Do people want this game to be as "Hardcore" as 90's RPGs?

[evdk]

Nah. I don't want:

 

- impossibly hard boss fights that'd crush your soul even after you'd find everything else a walk in the park.

- to remember or write down instructions, I want the important bits automatically in my journal (or whatever)

- no team members dying (that just meant a reload, even back then)

- some stupid baldurs gate/nwn2 inventory system with 100 slots of 5x5 pixel images you can't even see

- to spend 30 minutes after a fight applying ointments and minor cure spells to get the party back to speed

 

...or any of the other old crap, I just what the good stuff.

 

But as far as difficulty goes, please include a "crazy masochist exteme hardcore ironman" setting where you'll only have 1 hitpoint,

will die of a whisper and your computer will reformat if you do. Because even then someone will complain it's too crazy easy.

 

Dear god, you are the decline personified.

[Sensuki]

"You will suffer, oh yes."

 

That's what I want.

[SqueakyCat]

Nah. I don't want:

 

- impossibly hard boss fights that'd crush your soul even after you'd find everything else a walk in the park.

- to remember or write down instructions, I want the important bits automatically in my journal (or whatever)

- no team members dying (that just meant a reload, even back then)

- some stupid baldurs gate/nwn2 inventory system with 100 slots of 5x5 pixel images you can't even see

- to spend 30 minutes after a fight applying ointments and minor cure spells to get the party back to speed

 

...or any of the other old crap, I just what the good stuff.

 

But as far as difficulty goes, please include a "crazy masochist exteme hardcore ironman" setting where you'll only have 1 hitpoint,

will die of a whisper and your computer will reformat if you do. Because even then someone will complain it's too crazy easy.

 

Dear god, you are the decline personified.

 

I actually laughed out loud when I read that.

(I thought they were being sarcastic and gave them the benefit of the doubt .)

Edited September 18, 2012 by SqueakyCat

[Wintersong]

I've noticed lots of people here getting boners over the thought of being sadistically punished by the game mechanics of old. I understand and endorse the concept of making the player think more and do more within their game; something only the older games provided. But i do think that bringing back some of the unnecessarily tedious and frankly outdated game mechanics of the 90's would only be a detriment to the game.

 

Accept it or not, but it's factual that many game mechanics and gameplay elements have been improved since the 90's. Yes, many have been stripped of complexity, but it's foolish to say that nothing has improved.

 

So my question is: Do you want a carbon copy the "hardcore" game mechanics of the 90's, or do you want the more complex elements mixed with some modern mechanics and gameplay elements?

Could you please give examples of "outdated" mechanics?

 

Turning combats into Street Fighter rounds is dumbing down stuff. It may be more fun for some but certainly it's not what I want from this CRPG. (nothing wrong with Street Fighter but it's not a CRPG)

Turning an old school CRPG into a new age Adventure Game with RPG Mechanics? Sure I can have fun with that but I'd prefer a CRPG that requires some more decissions that which dialog option to choose.

 

But we are in the age of "Remove anything that stops/delays instant fun". I'm not against new mechanics that are better than the old ones. I'm totally against removing stuff on the basis of "It's old" or "Micromanagement is always unfun".

Edited September 18, 2012 by Wintersong

[Undecaf]

Do people want this game to be as "Hardcore" as the 90's RPG's?

 

Yes. And then some.

[TwinkieGorilla]

or do you want the more complex elements mixed with some modern mechanics and gameplay elements?

 

Screw modern mechanics. That's exactly what we're NOT pledging money toward.

[Continuity]

Stay true to the IE games. No artificial difficulty, just good encounter design, and clever use of the rules.

[Gibbscape_Torment]

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

 

I saw it as a chance to regain the moral complexity, immersive setting and player agency of the old games that have not yet been matched in modern RPGs. Not the clunky mechanics and tedious gameplay elements.

[Muzrub333]

Jarmo, on 18 September 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Nah. I don't want:

 

- impossibly hard boss fights that'd crush your soul even after you'd find everything else a walk in the park.

- to remember or write down instructions, I want the important bits automatically in my journal (or whatever)

- no team members dying (that just meant a reload, even back then)

- some stupid baldurs gate/nwn2 inventory system with 100 slots of 5x5 pixel images you can't even see

- to spend 30 minutes after a fight applying ointments and minor cure spells to get the party back to speed

 

...or any of the other old crap, I just what the good stuff.

 

But as far as difficulty goes, please include a "crazy masochist exteme hardcore ironman" setting where you'll only have 1 hitpoint,

will die of a whisper and your computer will reformat if you do. Because even then someone will complain it's too crazy easy.

 

____

 

"Grr. Bark bark!! Grr...You humans casuals have ruined your own lands MMO's! You'll not ruin mine Eternity!"

 

Sounds like you'd love the way things are in the MMORPG genre. Dumbed down to the point of why bother.

 

 

Edit: nice when I quote the correct person...alzheimers sucks

Edited September 18, 2012 by Muzrub333

[Undecaf]

Would you describe some of those clunky mechanics and tedious gameplay elements and the things you'd replace them with?

[Crosmando]

Would you describe some of those clunky mechanics and tedious gameplay elements and the things you'd replace them with?

Define clunky please, it's not very descriptive.

[Farudan]

There is a difference between hardcore and outdated. I don't want back the clunky interfaces or confusing journals and maps of the old days. I don't want back the stupid AI or pathfinding problems of Baldur's Gate that caused so much trouble. In that regard I like the comfort and technological progress of today's CRPGs. But I'd love to get back the days when I felt like travelling a world with a group of adventurers instead of rushing through an interactive movie. I'd love to have the same sort of combats as in BG, including formations. I'd love to see the old unique items that actually tell a story. I remember how fascinated I was by the story of the Severed Hand in Icewind Dale, that was only told in books. I didn't read them all, but it was really cool to have that kind of stuff in a game.

[Blablachar]

What kind of question is that? The sole reason the project exists is that we want 90's quality- if anyone is not good with it, then it's a wrong address for him.

 

Even more- let's have even more hardcore in it, with character builds that we can "broke", proper journal and map without gps system, relentless fights and complex system that is demending.

 

Anything less is not good enough :]

[Hagen]

I admit, I probably wouldn't be fond of drawing maps on graph paper again.

 

But I want a game with strategical and tactical depth, something that gives me a real challenge and makes me think.

I want to find my own way, not follow a quest GPS. I want to feel great for making good tactical decisions and I want my party annihilated for bad ones. I want to manage resources and healing. Heck, I'd love a morale system like the good old "Wizard's Crown" had on the C64 (anyone remember that?).

[Jozape]

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

 

I saw it as a chance to regain the moral complexity, immersive setting and player agency of the old games that have not yet been matched in modern RPGs. Not the clunky mechanics and tedious gameplay elements.

 

Could you actually tell us what you're arguing against? What are the features/mechanics that are clunky and tedious? What is it that you are afraid that Obsidian will do in Project Eternity?

[Monte Carlo]

Let's join in the spirit of the OP's thread!

 

I want modern CRPG innovations like dudes with exclamation marks flashing over their heads (selling DLC), cinematic (and tedious) deux ex machina cut-scenes, radial wheels with cretinous dialogue options, a American college movie-like camping site for all my imaginary friends, hours of tedious fakespeare voiceovers and poorly pixellated orgasms with an elf wearing a diaper.

 

Anything old-school, like thinking about tactics, a bit of resource management and character development that doesn't rely on MOAR POWAZ skill trees (with pretty pictures for the OCD-afflicted) should be vilified.

 

My suggestion is that folks need to read the original Kickstarter description for this project. It is pithy, accurate and to the point. They are not making Dragon Age 7 ("When Hormones Attack") for cosplay-obssessed lunatics. They are making an honest-to-god, old-skool CRPG.

 

That is all.

 

Edit: grammar

Edited September 18, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[Crosmando]

I like you, you funny guy

[Luckmann]

Hardcorer, preferably.

 

Like mentioned in another thread, I would like it if there was intrinsic "Hardcore" (as in FONV) aspects to the game. This would be in addition to "old-time-y" game mechanics.

 

It is impossible to actually discuss the merits of OP:s opinions unless he explains what mechanics he doesn't like.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Luckmann

[SqueakyCat]

Let's join in the spirit of the OP's thread!

 

I want modern CRPG innovations like dudes with exclamation marks flashing over their heads (selling DLC), cinematic (and tedious) deux ex machina cut-scenes, radial wheels with cretinous dialogue options, a American college movie-like camping site for all my imaginary friends, hours of tedious fakespeare voiceovers and poorly pixellated orgasms with an elf wearing a diaper.

 

Anything old-school, like thinking about tactics, a bit of resource management and character development that doesn't rely on MOAR POWAZ skill trees (with pretty pictures for the OCD-afflicted) should be vilified.

 

My suggestion is that folks need to read the original Kickstarter description for this project. It is pithy, accurate and to the point. They are not making Dragon Age 7 ("When Hormones Attack") for cosplay-obssessed lunatics. They are making an honest-to-god, old-skool CRPG.

 

That is all.

 

Edit: grammar

 

That was simply great!! Best laugh of the day so far .

[limaxophobiacq]

The one thing I'd like to avoid of the old IE games is the ridiculous randomness of life and death in early levels like in BG 1 were your low level character could often die through no fault of your own just because some bandit archer got a critical hit or through failing a single saving throw. While even great warriors dying to bad luck is realistic, I don't think it makes for a great game. When I fail I want it to be because I could have played better (but without cheesing), not because someone happened to roll a 1 or a 20.

Edited September 18, 2012 by limaxophobiacq

[Monte Carlo]

^ This is a good point and one where older CRPGs could be a bit too brutal for some.

 

By the time we hit NWN2 we saw fast-levelling up to 3/4. That was fine. I know some people adore the level one 'Kobold-Peril' thing, but maybe starting levels could be dynamic or tied to difficulty. Alternatively, a 'Here Be Dragons' type hint about wandering off the critical path might allow the warier player to level up in a less perilous manner.

[Jaymanbrews]

Growing up I loved the Ultima Series, by far U7 and U7 part 2 are one of my all time favorite RPG games ever made. I would like to see a simple quest tracker. Not like current games where they tell you to go and what to do , but a quest tracker for when you havn't played in a week or two and need to remember what to do next because you got side tracked. Maybe you need reagents to cast spells, Mana bar , and good old combat stats.

[Sordel]

It's easy to give people hardcore difficulty: Brutal mode with dead-is-dead amd upscaled enemies. I don't see why everyone needs to play the game with a FAQ in one hand, though. Personally I'd be happy to play on a Medium difficulty setting.

 

What would be nice is to have aspects of the game behind a veil that can only be penetrated at higher difficulties: special items and 'Emerald Weapon'-style bosses are the sorts of things I'm thinking of.

[Bos_hybrid]

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

That was the point of this kickstarter game, yes?

 

A hardcore rpg that has more in common with BG and PS:T, than it does with modern rpgs.

 

I saw it as a chance to regain the moral complexity, immersive setting and player agency of the old games that have not yet been matched in modern RPGs.

 

Which we should get.........

 

Not the clunky mechanics and tedious gameplay elements.

 

Which are? That is a very broad statement. An actual response and information on what you don't want to see would clarify much.

[zlarm]

Difficulty can be addressed via difficulty settings(as long as they're included) so I don't think it that should be a much of a problem. They've said they're going for tactical combat so I very much doubt it will be a cakewalk on the harder settings (otherwise theres really no need for tactics). There are some (more) modern concessions I enjoy like the option to have my party cast heal on rest....Rather than tediously having to manually do it ala BG. It's nice to have at least a transcript of your conversation so if you miss someone telling you something important (vie pressing the wrong button etc...) you can somehow access it although I'm not arguing for journal updates that tell you exactly what you need to do next (or say a breadcrumb trail). Friendly fire is also something I enjoy although that could be set to the difficulty slider as well as I beleive it was done for some of the IE games.