Sex and Romance Poll

[Minttunator]

I think the romances should have wildly different directions from virginal girl next door to crazy up against the wall let's have it on right here. Why isn't that an option?

 

Seriously, though, I think I like the Torment approach most, i.e. there were some hints but no real romance as such. Guess that means "none of the above" in this case - most of the romances I've seen in games are just not very good. The NPCs always tend to either be super whiny (Aerie, Jaheira) or act like choleric teenagers (Viconia, Morrigan).

[Grimlorn]

o

you are a sad little man. all the obsidian games had romance in them, why is it so outrageous to assume that this one will as well?

Not all Obsidian games and they were bad in those too. And they probably had to include them because publishers wanted them.

h the evil publisher is at fault when a game has features i dont like, nevermind all the other fans that appreciate said feature and the devs who felt they wanted to include it

 

you need to realize that the world doesnt revolve around yourself

I think you're projecting and you should take your own advice. I never implied the world did. I've been saying it's Obsidian's choice and that they're not fans of them and it's pretty obvious they're pretty bad in general. You're just upset because you might not be getting your romances. There's always DA3. And if you can't wait for that, you can fire up the Witcher and look at your sex cards.

[SanguineAngel]

Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter what 200 people out of 30k want. This is Obsidian's game, not the people's. You donate they create the game they want. They aren't obligated to put romances in based on 300 person poll. And they don't like romances. Romances are bad in RPGs. They've never really been good. It boggles my mind that people can't see this, but my guess is they're too busy fantasizing about a sexual relationship with an inanimate object. It's weird.

 

Hi Grim, just to address your last point. I can't speak for everyone but for myself, it's a lot like a romance in any other form of media. It's not a fantasy - I do not imagine myself in that position and wish I was with this fictional person. Instead, I like characters and stories and I admit, I'm a sucker for a romance. The difference with a game is not that it's suddenly about me but that as a player, we have the ability to interact with the story and perhaps connect with the fiction a little more. I find that fun.

 

Although I will agree that traditionally, romance has been handled poorly in games, especially RPGs - I don't see that as a reason to stop trying. I see it as a reason to try harder, do a better job.

[Grimlorn]

Romances are bad in RPGs.

 

Well... that's your opinion. You can say it again, but that doesn't make it a fact.

And your opinion is in 1/3 minority. You can assume only crazy game romance addicts come and vote here, but you know what assuming does, right?

 

Now Obsidian can make the game they want, if they'd do everything according to polls here and elsewhere, it'd be a really strange and bad game.

But if they want the public opinion, it's right there on the poll stats.

And if you knew their opinions from reading their interviews then you'd know their opinion matches up with the minority. And that's that.

[Jiraboas]

Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter what 200 people out of 30k want.

 

Come on! I from the other side of the big ocean, and i read the same arguments over and over again. I am tired of it.

 

Do you know mathematics? Do you know how polls in general works? Do you think if the gouverment publishs there statistics, they ASK all 15 millard people in the USA? No they dont!

So, your argument is invalid...

 

 

 

This is Obsidian's game, not the people's.

 

I agree with you here.

 

 

You donate they create the game they want.

 

Yeah ****ing awesome if you are able to program the stuff you want to see, on you own. But the most people dont.

Thats why game developers come into play.

 

They aren't obligated to put romances in based on 300 person poll.

 

I dont think this either. But i think the developers will read the arguments. I hope they will publish a statment about this topic to make clear why they do want or do not want to add romance in the game. I think its important to state out it clearly.

 

The poll is but good for orientation,not more, i think.

 

Romances are bad in RPGs.

 

Stop writing this. ITS YOUR OPINION, pal. Not a general truth. Deal with it

 

It boggles my mind that people can't see this, but my guess is they're too busy fantasizing about a sexual relationship with an inanimate object. It's weird.

 

You write such a nonsense, pal, sorry...

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

Edited September 18, 2012 by Jiraboas

[evdk]

es had romances foisted on them by the publishers. Several of important developers are on record saying that they dislike them.

 

 

Link ?

 

So far I have this:

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/topic/44687-romances-in-nwn-2-and-rpgs-in-general/page__st__120__p__725311

 

Not entirely what I had in mind but still informative.

[BruceVC]

@ Grimlorn

You are a strange person. You don't seem to remember or understand your own posts

 

This is a RPG. Not a sex/social simulator for deviants who can't build a relationship in real life.

 

This is clearly an insult, you are suggesting that people that want sex in the game must be sexual deviants

I admit I am a sexual deviant. I watch porn and go to stripclubs. But I can understand why others would be insulted as this is not a positive view for many

 

Secondly you seem to think that your definition of an RPG is sacrosanct and we can't deviate from it. You say that your view of romances in RPG is fact, its not. Its your opinion and subjective.

 

What is fact is that the poll is clearly showing that most people want sex and relationships in this game.

 

So you need to deal with it, sorry

Thanks for proving my point about the deviant thing?

 

Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter what 200 people out of 30k want. This is Obsidian's game, not the people's. You donate they create the game they want. They aren't obligated to put romances in based on 300 person poll. And they don't like romances. Romances are bad in RPGs. They've never really been good. It boggles my mind that people can't see this, but my guess is they're too busy fantasizing about a sexual relationship with an inanimate object. It's weird.

 

I should have added that I don't think I am sexual deviant, but by your definition I probably am. I watch porn, go to stripclubs and like to have sex with attractive virtual characters in my party when I play RPG . I am fine with this, to me this is normal.

 

I see your point about the forums and even though you can't say that this poll represents the overall fanbase you shouldn't underestimate the importance of official forums for any game and how much influence they carry. I am sure Obsidian does consider what people suggest in there posts if logical. Therefore this poll is relevant.

[vattghern]

o

you are a sad little man. all the obsidian games had romance in them, why is it so outrageous to assume that this one will as well?

Not all Obsidian games and they were bad in those too. And they probably had to include them because publishers wanted them.

h the evil publisher is at fault when a game has features i dont like, nevermind all the other fans that appreciate said feature and the devs who felt they wanted to include it

 

you need to realize that the world doesnt revolve around yourself

I think you're projecting and you should take your own advice. I never implied the world did. I've been saying it's Obsidian's choice and that they're not fans of them and it's pretty obvious they're pretty bad in general. You're just upset because you might not be getting your romances. There's always DA3. And if you can't wait for that, you can fire up the Witcher and look at your sex cards.

unlike you im not campaigning for the exclusion of features that a good portion (majority if this poll is to believed) of the fanbase enjoys because i personally hate them

 

the presence of romances (which is really only a subset of npc relations - do you dislike all of them?) doesnt affect you if you chose to ignore them, yet you want to deprive others of the pleasure. that is a sad attitude

[Longknife]

Ask yourselves this:

 

What is romance?

 

Romance is when two people hit it off. They find each other attractive: physically, mentally, personality-wise etc. They find each other SO attractive that they decide they want to spend all of their time together and enjoy other perks of a relationship (buttsex). You can't stand to be without this person, and you'd likely be willing to throw down your own life if it meant saving theirs. That's romance.

 

 

Can an AI find you physically attractive? No

Can an AI find you mentally attractive? I guess TECHNICALLY yes, but it's a very basic attraction, much like some shallow people might find rich people attractive

Can an AI find your personality attractive? No, because you cannot properly express yourself through RPG options.

 

Can you find an AI physically attractive? Uuhhh...I suppose? I mean I guess even drawings can be appealing, but still that's very basic....

Can you find an AI mentally attractive? No, absolutely not.

Can you find an AI's personality attractive? Not really. If you can there's something friggin' wrong with you. You can like them, their character and their story, but their personality does NOT expand beyond that. They're more an idea rather than an actual personality.

 

Will the AI want to spend all of it's time with you? It doesn't have a choice.

Will YOU want to spend all of your time with it? I certainly ****ing hope not. If yes, see a therapist.

 

 

So why bother? Why pretend? Why implement romance if doing it properly is impossible? Either do it right or don't do it at all.

 

Sex? That wouldn't hurt I suppose. I mean again, in my opinion, a "relationship" you guys are talking about is literally just your "lover's" backstory + sex after you tell her how amazing and right about everything she is. Backstory is fine, and you know what, I guess fap material is fine too. But please, don't try and mix them and present them as a relationship, cause I find that hella awkward, personally.

 

Prostitutes or maybe ONE flirty companion who never moves past flirting with you or drunken romps, fine. But every female companion wanting to get with you? Please god no...

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[casa]

es had romances foisted on them by the publishers. Several of important developers are on record saying that they dislike them.

 

 

Link ?

 

So far I have this:

 

http://forums.obsidi..._120__p__725311

 

Not entirely what I had in mind but still informative.

 

I very much like his statement here, which also sums up why I dislike Bioware's approach while still hoping for something better:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/44687-romances-in-nwn-2-and-rpgs-in-general/page__st__120#entry725311

[casa]

Ask yourselves this:

 

What is romance?

 

Romance is when two people hit it off. They find each other attractive: physically, mentally, personality-wise etc. They find each other SO attractive that they decide they want to spend all of their time together and enjoy other perks of a relationship (buttsex). You can't stand to be without this person, and you'd likely be willing to throw down your own life if it meant saving theirs. That's romance.

 

 

Can an AI find you physically attractive? No

Can an AI find you mentally attractive? I guess TECHNICALLY yes, but it's a very basic attraction, much like some shallow people might find rich people attractive

Can an AI find your personality attractive? No, because you cannot properly express yourself through RPG options.

 

Can you find an AI physically attractive? Uuhhh...I suppose? I mean I guess even drawings can be appealing, but still that's very basic....

Can you find an AI mentally attractive? No, absolutely not.

Can you find an AI's personality attractive? Not really. If you can there's something friggin' wrong with you. You can like them, their character and their story, but their personality does NOT expand beyond that. They're more an idea rather than an actual personality.

 

Will the AI want to spend all of it's time with you? It doesn't have a choice.

Will YOU want to spend all of your time with it? I certainly ****ing hope not. If yes, see a therapist.

 

 

So why bother? Why pretend? Why implement romance if doing it properly is impossible? Either do it right or don't do it at all.

 

Sex? That wouldn't hurt I suppose. I mean again, in my opinion, a "relationship" you guys are talking about is literally just your "lover's" backstory + sex after you tell her how amazing and right about everything she is. Backstory is fine, and you know what, I guess fap material is fine too. But please, don't try and mix them and present them as a relationship, cause I find that hella awkward, personally.

 

Prostitutes or maybe ONE flirty companion who never moves past flirting with you or drunken romps, fine. But every female companion wanting to get with you? Please god no...

 

And what do you have to say about other aspects of a game? Can you enjoy anything that is scripted and AI driven? Why game at all? I'm sorry, but this argument can be taken to any aspect of a game, plot, fight, writing... so why gaming altogether instead of having a real life?

[SanguineAngel]

Sorry, but I am and will remain a staunch oponent of homosexual romances within computer games. Much too much work has to be put into it, and the target consumers for such an idea are a handful compared to the majority of players.

If anything, I would dearly like to experience the implementation of the "bromance" or, in other words, the "Platonic love" concept, that is, an extremely deep, almost romantic friendship which, while being deep and meaningful, never really enters an intimate or sexual stage.

 

There's this weird idea that a straight or homosexual character could only possibly be FOR a straight or homosexual player respectively. These characters aren't you. Just because a character you see or interact with on screen is homosexual doesn't mean you have to emulate that person, or they have to emulate you. It is possible to relate to other people.

 

It is possible to enjoy all works of fiction about people who are not you, who do not share your proclivities or your ethnic background. I doubt you get up in arms when a game features a blonde or brunette, why are you suddenly upset that there is a fictional character that portrays a minority of some description? A character is a character. It's the joy of fiction. A character can be anything or anyone

 

"A respectable portrayal of sexual orientations?" Sorry, but what you are suggesting, in essence, is once again being politically correctt in the event homsexual characters are introduced and this, by itself, puts limitiations on the developers.

 

I don't know what limitations you're talking about? I'm talking about freeing themselves from stereotypes or using sex to sell and writing interesting and believable characters and relationships

Edited September 18, 2012 by SanguineAngel

[evdk]

es had romances foisted on them by the publishers. Several of important developers are on record saying that they dislike them.

 

 

 

Link ?

 

So far I have this:

 

http://forums.obsidi..._120__p__725311

 

Not entirely what I had in mind but still informative.

 

I very much like his statement here, which also sums up why I dislike Bioware's approach while still hoping for something better:

 

http://forums.obsidi...120#entry725311

But I don't think they have the budget on this project to go down the "more" path, so I would them rather do without. Personal preference (although objectively true )

[Longknife]

es had romances foisted on them by the publishers. Several of important developers are on record saying that they dislike them.

 

 

Link ?

 

So far I have this:

 

http://forums.obsidi..._120__p__725311

 

Not entirely what I had in mind but still informative.

 

I very much like his statement here, which also sums up why I dislike Bioware's approach while still hoping for something better:

 

http://forums.obsidi...120#entry725311

 

He's exactly right. They're "romance victories." Love isn't about "victory," it's about....well love. It's about being with someone you love being with, but video games do nothing but reduce them to petty achievements to unlock. It's not the fault of the video game, but rather it's literally impossible for the video game to actually simulate love.

 

So again, if we can't do it right, let's not do it at all.

 

Basic perversion? Things like sex and prostitutes? Playful flirting with an NPC? I suppose if people still want those, that's an argument to have, as sex is a more basic, carnal desire and flirting can be as fun and funny as it is romantic, but please no attempts at serious love.

[Longknife]

Ask yourselves this:

 

What is romance?

 

Romance is when two people hit it off. They find each other attractive: physically, mentally, personality-wise etc. They find each other SO attractive that they decide they want to spend all of their time together and enjoy other perks of a relationship (buttsex). You can't stand to be without this person, and you'd likely be willing to throw down your own life if it meant saving theirs. That's romance.

 

 

Can an AI find you physically attractive? No

Can an AI find you mentally attractive? I guess TECHNICALLY yes, but it's a very basic attraction, much like some shallow people might find rich people attractive

Can an AI find your personality attractive? No, because you cannot properly express yourself through RPG options.

 

Can you find an AI physically attractive? Uuhhh...I suppose? I mean I guess even drawings can be appealing, but still that's very basic....

Can you find an AI mentally attractive? No, absolutely not.

Can you find an AI's personality attractive? Not really. If you can there's something friggin' wrong with you. You can like them, their character and their story, but their personality does NOT expand beyond that. They're more an idea rather than an actual personality.

 

Will the AI want to spend all of it's time with you? It doesn't have a choice.

Will YOU want to spend all of your time with it? I certainly ****ing hope not. If yes, see a therapist.

 

 

So why bother? Why pretend? Why implement romance if doing it properly is impossible? Either do it right or don't do it at all.

 

Sex? That wouldn't hurt I suppose. I mean again, in my opinion, a "relationship" you guys are talking about is literally just your "lover's" backstory + sex after you tell her how amazing and right about everything she is. Backstory is fine, and you know what, I guess fap material is fine too. But please, don't try and mix them and present them as a relationship, cause I find that hella awkward, personally.

 

Prostitutes or maybe ONE flirty companion who never moves past flirting with you or drunken romps, fine. But every female companion wanting to get with you? Please god no...

 

And what do you have to say about other aspects of a game? Can you enjoy anything that is scripted and AI driven? Why game at all? I'm sorry, but this argument can be taken to any aspect of a game, plot, fight, writing... so why gaming altogether instead of having a real life?

 

I thought it was self-explanatory. Perhaps not actually explained, but simply felt. I know love, and I don't feel it when playing video games. Ever.

 

But a sense of accomplishment for winning a competition or defeating an opponent? Pride in myself for figuring out a puzzle or other intellectual problem, or coming up with an effective strategy to handle a problem I've been faced with? Yes, that a video game CAN provide. Maybe in the game I'm managing my party to defeat a goblin army whereas in real life I'm simply working as a manager at a store, but the same sense of pride exists when I manage to defeat the goblin army or raise our overall profit.

 

But love CANNOT be simulated.

[Grimlorn]

[stop writing this. ITS YOUR OPINION, pal. Not a general truth. Deal with it

I know the difference between opinion and fact. I know it's my opinion. Some opinions are better and more informed than others.

 

But you should take a step back and ask yourself why my opinion upsets you so much. Is it because you got so much joy out of your relationships with NPCs in games. Seems kind of unhealthy to me.

[Pollypally]

I'm happy with intellectual bonding, character development and the development of relationships between members of your party. Love triangle anyone? Girls always break up guilds

But if everyone hates this idea, that's ok I guess I'll just have to make my own game

Edited September 18, 2012 by Pollypally

[evdk]

es had romances foisted on them by the publishers. Several of important developers are on record saying that they dislike them.

 

 

 

 

Link ?

 

So far I have this:

 

http://forums.obsidi..._120__p__725311

 

Not entirely what I had in mind but still informative.

 

I very much like his statement here, which also sums up why I dislike Bioware's approach while still hoping for something better:

 

http://forums.obsidi...120#entry725311

But I don't think they have the budget on this project to go down the "more" path, so I would them rather do without. Personal preference (although objectively true )

 

Also if you want to see Biowarean waaahmbulance in action take a step this way:

http://www.rpgwatch....98&postcount=32

Patrick Weekes presents: Spectacular Meltdown

Edited September 18, 2012 by evdk

[Elerond]

Game is simulation not reality. So if game has romance plot it's also simulated not real and it don't try to be real and nobody should take it as if it is real. It's same thing as in books, where two fictional character can be in love, but it's also not real as it's fictional simualation about romance which purpose is to entertaing reader not make him/her to fall love with this fictional characters. Relationship simualation can be as entertaining than fighting simulation. And in most cases relationship simulations especially dialogs what you character can go through with other characters are what sets great rpgs apart from mediocre rpgs. Romanaces are one part of this relationship simulations, not most important but also they are not least important part.

[Jiraboas]

Romance is when two people hit it off. They find each other attractive: physically, mentally, personality-wise etc. They find each other SO attractive that they decide they want to spend all of their time together and enjoy other perks of a relationship (buttsex). You can't stand to be without this person, and you'd likely be willing to throw down your own life if it meant saving theirs. That's romance.

 

No, thats more the romantic and idealistic version.

 

In general relationships are between people who want something they dont get without them. If it sex, love, money, celebrity or whatever.

 

I dont think the most people are really into this mentally stuff. I know that because i had many relationships. Maybe this is differ from country to country, or cullture or whatever, but in reality i dont find any girl who want a relationship because of this childish romantic stuff.

 

Its a shame, but real. There are many reasons out there why people do want a relationship. Maybe its not your intention and also not mine, but its not "unrealistic" to begin a rleationship only to have sex and because you find you partner attractive. Thats reality man.

 

Can an AI find you physically attractive? No

 

Thats not the point. I doesnt matter if the NPC find you attractive. This a game. When the author think your main character could have a relationship with this npc, so it will be. We, the developer, are the "gods" of the world(why do you think i like to create games, huh?) and we can determain you "destiny". And if "god" think you should get together with this npc its will be. But dont worry, if we were nice gods, we will let you a little choise. :D

 

 

 

Will YOU want to spend all of your time with it? I certainly ****ing hope not. If yes, see a therapist.

 

The times changes. Today we find relationships with AIs creepy, tomorow it will be normal.

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

Edited September 18, 2012 by Jiraboas

[Longknife]

Perhaps another compromise both sides might enjoy....

 

Oftentimes with TV shows etc., people typically enjoy seeing a guy "get the girl" and be matched up, in the belief that they were meant to be or would be good together, and just need to figure it out or work up the courage to talk to each other about it.

 

I don't think anyone would mind if there was romance among COMPANIONS that you could influence and encourage. My complaints are that I feel hella dumb telling an AI package I love her too when I know she's AI and I know she's straight-up programmed to like me at all times. But a romance story among companions could potentially appeal to both sides of this argument, since the romance camp gets their romance and the non-romance camp doesn't have to actively participate in it.

[SanguineAngel]

 

He's exactly right. They're "romance victories." Love isn't about "victory," it's about....well love. It's about being with someone you love being with, but video games do nothing but reduce them to petty achievements to unlock. It's not the fault of the video game, but rather it's literally impossible for the video game to actually simulate love.

 

So again, if we can't do it right, let's not do it at all.

 

Basic perversion? Things like sex and prostitutes? Playful flirting with an NPC? I suppose if people still want those, that's an argument to have, as sex is a more basic, carnal desire and flirting can be as fun and funny as it is romantic, but please no attempts at serious love.

 

I agree - if you can't do it right, don't do it at all.

 

But, I don't see why you're talking about simulating love. As far as I can tell, an RPG like this just needs to tell a good love story. It doesn't need to make the player fall in love but show the characters' love story in a convincing and engaging manner. And I believe that that is entirely possible.

Edited September 18, 2012 by SanguineAngel

[Longknife]

The times changes. Today we find relationships with AIs creepy, tomorow it will be normal.

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

 

Futurama says otherwise

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtqGTn7PCBw

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[BruceVC]

Ask yourselves this:

 

What is romance?

 

Romance is when two people hit it off. They find each other attractive: physically, mentally, personality-wise etc. They find each other SO attractive that they decide they want to spend all of their time together and enjoy other perks of a relationship (buttsex). You can't stand to be without this person, and you'd likely be willing to throw down your own life if it meant saving theirs. That's romance.

 

 

Can an AI find you physically attractive? No

Can an AI find you mentally attractive? I guess TECHNICALLY yes, but it's a very basic attraction, much like some shallow people might find rich people attractive

Can an AI find your personality attractive? No, because you cannot properly express yourself through RPG options.

 

Can you find an AI physically attractive? Uuhhh...I suppose? I mean I guess even drawings can be appealing, but still that's very basic....

Can you find an AI mentally attractive? No, absolutely not.

Can you find an AI's personality attractive? Not really. If you can there's something friggin' wrong with you. You can like them, their character and their story, but their personality does NOT expand beyond that. They're more an idea rather than an actual personality.

 

Will the AI want to spend all of it's time with you? It doesn't have a choice.

Will YOU want to spend all of your time with it? I certainly ****ing hope not. If yes, see a therapist.

 

 

So why bother? Why pretend? Why implement romance if doing it properly is impossible? Either do it right or don't do it at all.

 

Sex? That wouldn't hurt I suppose. I mean again, in my opinion, a "relationship" you guys are talking about is literally just your "lover's" backstory + sex after you tell her how amazing and right about everything she is. Backstory is fine, and you know what, I guess fap material is fine too. But please, don't try and mix them and present them as a relationship, cause I find that hella awkward, personally.

 

Prostitutes or maybe ONE flirty companion who never moves past flirting with you or drunken romps, fine. But every female companion wanting to get with you? Please god no...

 

I understand what you are saying and I can see why it makes sense from your perspective. But the fundamental question is "why would a person want sex in an RPG ". This will differ from person to person. For me I am lover of the immersion of RPG. I can spend up to 100 hours playing an RPG. You form a virtual empathetic bond with your character in the game if its good. As someone who use to Dungeon Master in the original D&D pen and paper game I know how seriously people take there characters. We know its not real but its still important that you can define there actions, how they look and what the game allows them to do. So its perfectly logical that you would want your character to have sex with other characters. It adds to the overall experience of immersion. Many fantasy sagas, like the original Conan books, sex was ubiquitous. I love the Conan world so part of me wants to act like him when I play a game that represents his universe

 

Finally you can't use the argument "Sex in the game can't be something that actually appeals to people, its just a pixel resolution with a few programmed responses". I could easily make a counter- argument " why play a game with magic, monsters and strange quests. Its not even real. What possible reason would you enjoy such nonsense"

 

Of course my last point doesn't apply as people play RPG for a variety of known and personal reasons. And most of us love them as our favorite gaming genres

Edited September 18, 2012 by BruceVC

[Drowsy Emperor]

...Or we could all just wait for them to tell us what they're planning in this regard and then strangle each other over it.

 

So far the majority is for romances, but the voting is fixed in favour of choosing such a response anyway with three (four actually) options in favor and one against and lacking the one that would surely get a lot of votes "I'm only for romances if the developers feel they are integral and important to the story they want to tell".

Edited September 18, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor