Gather Allies in Four Sides of the World to Fight the Ancient Big Baddie?

[Domigorgon]

Please, no.

 

In Dragon Age: Origins you must gather allies in four sides of the world to fight an ancient evil.

In Mass Effect 1/2/3 you must gather allies in four sides of the galaxy to fight an ancient evil.

In Neverwinter Nights you fight an ancient/resurrected evil.

In Neverwinter Nights 2 you fight an ancient/resurrected evil. Oh, and you build a fortress.

In Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim you fight an ancient/resurrected evil, but mostly just roam and kill everything and/or carry out FedEx quests.

 

Now, those games were not necessarily bad (some I quite enjoyed, actually), but the overarching plot was too damn simple and cliche'd. Now, here's some games that did it right, storywise (IMO):

 

In Fallout 1 you must find the water chip and defeat the mutant overlord.

In Fallout 2 you must save your tribe from starvation and disease and defeat a paramilitary organization.

In Baldur's Gate you must avenge your foster father and find the secret of your parentage.

In Baldur's Gate 2 you must settle a score with a powerful wizard, as well as with your father's progeny.

In Planescape: Torment you are an amnesiac at the centre of the multiverse, seeking a cure for his immortality.

In Witcher... you don't know what the hell is happening, until you do.

 

Agree? Disagree? Discuss.

 

Also, I've nothing against free roaming and side-quests. Especially when they are anything more than simple fetchfests (Elder Scrolls, I'm looking at you... go and pick your own herbs).

[Vatdim]

You've nailed it pretty well. Give me a personal story and I'll be satisfied. Just like PS:T and MotB.

[Bos_hybrid]

You've nailed it pretty well. Give me a personal story and I'll be satisfied. Just like PS:T and MotB.

[Monte Carlo]

* sighs * I just want a game where I am the ancient / resurrected evil.

[GhostofAnakin]

The Chosen One must choose!

 

Seriously though, I agree with the OP.

[Hoverdog]

Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time.

[Adam Brennecke]

We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post!

[Sensuki]

The Jade Empire story was actually alright.

[Zoma]

Its the journey that matters, not the destination.

[Monte Carlo]

Its the journey that matters, not the destination.

 

That's deep. Can I find you on your mountain top and ask you some advice about stuff?

[Domigorgon]

We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post!

 

Thank YOU!

[Darkpriest]

DA:O - that one was fun, but the gathering of allies seemed more like an effort just to prolong the game, not to add much meaningful material. I preferred some of the sidequests over the main gathering thing - especially since it apparently had almost no reflection on DA2...

 

ME1 - it was more personal, even though you were saving the galaxy from a baddie, still unknown baddie

ME2 - was more of the action than story... you were just trying to kill the Collectors - some of the DLCs got me more interested than the main plot...

ME3 - tried to follow up on the DA:O mechanics but at the same time forgot about too many things that should be implemented... and clearly it was more for a shooter crowd than RPG crowd

 

NWN - the main plot could have been better, but it still touched some of very interesting piece of FR lore - the creator races

NWN: SotU - it was more personal and fun IMO

NWN: HotU - since it was an epic level adventure, it involved powerful and somewhat cliched characters... still the main antagonist was not that obvious at the start of the game

 

NWN2 - felt very good at the start... really, until the Jerro thing was taken more into the spotlight, I really thought that the main antagonist will be someone else than we fought in the end - the main game unfortunately showed to the audience "the rushed product" effect, with the last chapters and writing for NPCs not being as good as the initial chapter

NWN2: MotB - very nice and personal game... gave a whole new look at the silver sword, the shardbearer and well play it if you want more info

NWN2: SoZ - I did not expect a great story, because it was not advertised as such... it still was an interesting concept with building your own "empire" so to speak. I liked the return of mechanics such as "random encounter, map travel". I just wished there was a game that was build from scratch up with such mechanics in place.

 

Never liked the Elder Scrolls series... mainly because of the combat mechanics and bland NPCs... I did not manage to finish any of them...

 

To the second portion of the list, I would also add The Witcher 2... I can't wait what plot the dev team will pull out for TW3

 

I support some more creative ending and plot. More BG2, PS:T, TW2, even Alpha Protocol style than DA, ME series

Edited September 17, 2012 by Darkpriest

[Gelp]

You forgot how in the first chapter of NWN you had to go to the four sections of Neverwinter and gather the four rare creatures required to cure the plague.

 

But yeah, Bioware loves their standard fantasy.

 

Blackisle, Troika, and Obsidian tend(ed) to do a great job of deconstructing fantasy. I wish they'd do dragon age 3. Bioware tried to pull an Obsidian, and it almost worked...

 

I tend to look at it this way. Bioware tells great stories. Obsidian creates more believable worlds.

 

Lastly, (10 year old spoilers) @MonteCarlo: Play Kotor 2 with the restored content patch. You ARE the threat to the galaxy that the jedi have to unite to oppose. I just played that part this morning.

[Tagaziel]

Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time.

 

Obsidian actually subverted that.

[Darkpriest]

You forgot how in the first chapter of NWN you had to go to the four sections of Neverwinter and gather the four rare creatures required to cure the plague.

 

But yeah, Bioware loves their standard fantasy.

 

Blackisle, Troika, and Obsidian tend(ed) to do a great job of deconstructing fantasy. I wish they'd do dragon age 3. Bioware tried to pull an Obsidian, and it almost worked...

 

I tend to look at it this way. Bioware tells great stories. Obsidian creates more believable worlds.

 

Lastly, (10 year old spoilers) @MonteCarlo: Play Kotor 2 with the restored content patch. You ARE the threat to the galaxy that the jedi have to unite to oppose. I just played that part this morning.

 

I still wish that Obsidian had a time and possibility to finish that piece of art i.e. KotOR 2... there was so much content cut, and probably even more on the boards. To be honest, I'd like to know more of the plans there were for KotOR, but I never really was that much of a forum lurker - this project got me attached as I decided to drop my 80$ :D - and I really want to have a brand new, good RPG game.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Darkpriest

[Hoverdog]

Yes, in a way they did - actually the whole game was a major deconstruction of all the fantasy... in space! crap that Star Wars consists of. That was a major incline of an otherwise boring setting.

[Nonek]

Personally I thought the mechanic for involving the player in the conflict of Neverwinter Nights 2 was genius, we we're not left asking: "Why me" We were intricately and personally enmeshed in the storyline through bad luck at our birth. The King of Shadows was a bit cliche, but his past and transformation due to outside forces (like the pc) was very interesting.

[Tagaziel]

http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/

 

Here's a damn good Let's Play. It's absolutely brilliant and includes cut content!

[Miquel93]

It's Obsdidian, I wouldn't be worried about that. I mean, look to what they did with the Star Wars setting in KOTOR 2. Even the most typical storyline made by Obsidian, NWN 2 (and Dungeon Siege III, but never finished that one), had a lot of interesting stuff that make it quite different from Bioware storylines (to say one studio that loves "clich

[Enoch]

In Fallout 2 you must save your tribe from starvation and disease and defeat a paramilitary organization.

Picking nits, but I'd argue that the Enclave in FO2 counts as an "ancient evil." Put into fantasy terms, they're the remnants of an empire whose war destroyed the world 2 centuries ago.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post!

 

Great! I totally agree with the OP it's getting a bit old xD

[Auxilius]

Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time.

But that's not what happened in KOTOR2. The game keeps going on once you beat Nihilus who were a complete pushover anyway. It was all about the Exile's journey.

I agree we shouldn't ignore the characters who are the backbone of the story but epic stories and campaigns are cool too. See MotB, you battle angels, doomguides and gods to save your soul, it felt great to live such a story with great characters at your side.

Bioware tried that in Mass Effect 2 but I think they failed because there were a complete lack of interactions between the characters who weren't that interesting to begin with. It's hard to explain such complex concepts in a language that is not my mother tongue but basically, what ME2 lacked was a life in the ship. Something that was here in NWN2, same for the Ebon Hawk in KOTOR2. The ship was fun to explore because something was always bound to happen.

To resume, great characters won't fit if the story is lacking.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Auxilius

[Tauron]

OP nailed it and I am happy that developers are aware of it. Still a sidequest "destroy ancient/ressurectet evil" ( orrr support it for whatever it may offer inreturn) wouldnt hurt either. Many have weakness for mystirious ancient myth stuff etc

[dlux]

The story arc from Baldur's Gate has to be one of the best in video gaming history. Abso****inglutely fantastic!!!

 

But I have to admit: The story about the Reapers (ancient evil) was also excellent... until Mass Effect 3 at least. ^^ They were just so dark, evil and mysterious.

[incubus9]

I don't want to have to gather/kill/find "x" number of crystals/magic beasts/companions to unlock/defeat/challenge anyone or anything. So basically I think that they shouldn't borrow their plot from any Final Fantasy game.