Dragons.

[dlux]

In my humble opinion, Dragons should be treated as... well, Dragons. Meaning, if they are indeed present in the world, they should be rare. Extremely rare.

Yes. Definitely!

 

Here out my reasoning - When Bethesda announced they were doing Dragons for Skyrim, I was pretty excited, and from a game play perspective, they worked... for the most part. What they did horribly wrong is they made Dragons common.

And they were weak too. I can still remember the totally unepic boring battles against those lame dragons. You just shoot arrows at them and wait until they land so you can whack the **** out of them. Yeah, Bethesda are real experts at making retard proof games. ^^

[Chaz]

Ok first off, allow me to introduce myself, as I just joined this forum a few minutes ago, and cannot find the "introduce yourself" section, if there even is one. I am Frank (yes that rabbit from Donnie Darko), some of you may know me from community discussion over at the Bethesda forums, if so, hit me up! It's scary over here.

 

Now on to the actual topic: Dragons. I'm making this thread because, well, I haven't really seen this addressed anywhere and the fine folks over at Obsidian are *gasp* actually listening the the fans!

 

So Dragons. Big reptilian fire breathing monsters, arguably one of the more defining symbols of the fantasy genre. Just a few thoughts I'd like to share concerning them in Project Eternity. First - Will they be making an appearance (and I mean at all, not necessarily in the game, lore as well)? Perfectly understandable if you folks don't want to spoil it. But if they are in... may I throw a few words in?

 

In my humble opinion, Dragons should be treated as... well, Dragons. Meaning, if they are indeed present in the world, they should be rare. Extremely rare. Here out my reasoning - When Bethesda announced they were doing Dragons for Skyrim, I was pretty excited, and from a game play perspective, they worked... for the most part. What they did horribly wrong is they made Dragons common. The largest and most powerful foes in the game world (which they should be) were also extremely common to the point of becoming mundane. Please do not do this. Matter of fact you guys should only do one or two of them at the most. Dragons are enormous, powerful, and majestic creatures and should be treated as such within the world, arguably as I said before being among the rarest and most challenging of monsters.

 

Now this thread should be an ongoing discussion of these creatures (unless I'm shot down ), so what does the community of Obsidian think? I very much hope one you more prominent developers read this and heed what I say - unless I'm intruding on your creation.

 

Peace.

 

I think Dragons have been so overused lately that I rather not see them in Project Eternity, they have become a cliche that are there for the sake of beign there only because they look cool. Some games have the word dragon in their title or logo when the game has barely anything to do with dragons, it seemed to me a desicion made by Marketing and then the writing guys had to accomodate it with the Lore.

 

If they want to have them I would like them to a) be rare b) be smart or smarter than a person, like D&D dragons that weren't just another monster, they were full-fledged characters.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Chaz

[Shadenuat]

Can we either do not have dragons and go with down-to-earth path, or make them intelligent characters acting on their own, with dialogue and interesting agenda?

 

Oh, and, by the way - how about not having giant spiders? Because it's both ridiculous and hilarious to see as every RPG developer tries to show that THEIR spiders are the most GIANT spiders out there than of their competitors?

[HarTstaRx]

I think if we have dragons it should be as a LadySpace said

"Dragons" as in rare, magically powerful, incredibly interesting creatures who are defined as being different from gods or spirits by being both wholly corporeal and distinctly nonhuman, thus lending an air of power, menace, and wild wisdom to what would otherwise be a bog-standard "large enemy" archetype? Yes, please.

 

"Dragons" as in big angry winged fire-breathing lizards? Meh, I could go without pretty easily.

 

Besides that, I think it would be a nice feature for killable dragons and other powerful creatures from the game to give a different type of reward instead/besides of XP, maybe lore, missions, or some kind of ability, maybe even changing the story for the rest of the game.

[Playgu]

Yes!

[Audiocide]

I think BGII handled dragons very well. There was only 3 of them, and all extremely powerful. Firkraag actually warned you that you were going to die, and told you not to push it.

 

That said, I'd be just fine with no dragons as well. But please no dragons or vampires everywhere just because they're popular these days.

[descalabro]

If we're going to have dragons, make them goddamn FLY! I'm tired of dragons who can only sit in a cave. Besides it would make combat more interesting and it would be something completely new for this kind of RPG. The Infinity Engine couldn't do that, but now it's 10 years later so no excuses.

[molarBear]

If we're going to have dragons, make them goddamn FLY! I'm tired of dragons who can only sit in a cave. Besides it would make combat more interesting and it would be something completely new for this kind of RPG. The Infinity Engine couldn't do that, but now it's 10 years later so no excuses.

 

+1.00

[Concerned Reader]

I tend to like the idea of inteligent dragons who have their own motivations and cultural significance. An example of this being done well would be the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Concerned Reader

[Huli22]

I agree with the dragon thing... just don`t make it the biggest standpoint in the game a.k.a. Dragonage, Guild wars 2... Like their whole agenda and advertising is based on dragons.

 

And add skyrim to that as well...

Edited September 19, 2012 by Huli22

[aluminiumtrioxid]

"Dragons" as in rare, magically powerful, incredibly interesting creatures who are defined as being different from gods or spirits by being both wholly corporeal and distinctly nonhuman, thus lending an air of power, menace, and wild wisdom to what would otherwise be a bog-standard "large enemy" archetype? Yes, please.

 

 

I'd prefer such an enemy type. But why would they have to be dragons? There are plenty of less cliché creatures which could fill that niche.

[Ashram]

I think dragons, while not mandatory, are iconic symbols of fantasy role playing games. That said, I would like to see them treated like intelligent creatures who have the long view outlook on life and are bigger than life. Powerful...magical....rich. If shapechanging for dragons is something that is part of this world...I would love to see a party member or someone who you interact with over and over surprise as being a dragon when the time is right...and hopefully on your side. Another interesting story hook would be if you were entrusted with a dragon egg and had to raise and protect one. Makes for some good story.

[Camaris]

mmmm I like Dragons, but i like them more if they leave super-ultra-rare items to loot!

Edited September 19, 2012 by Camaris

[Umberlin]

Only if they're done right. No junior dragons for low level adventurers. If you come across a dragon it should be exactly what I remember reading in the books; insanely intelligent, skilled in magic and physically powerful and mobile. A Dragon shouldn't be a run of the mill encounter but one of those things you have to plan for so very, very well or face certain doom. Also nothing frustrates me more than a Dragon actually coming down and landing for the melee players to hit it. Because if you can fly and bombard people that are trying to kill you from a safe distance - you would. Especially if you're an intelligent thinking creature that can strategize.

 

Fighting a Dragon should be multi-layers, and involve having to figure out a way to cancel out its mobility before even thinking of really engaging it. Even then it should be the sort of fight that leaves you wishing you'd never messed with the thing, regardless of reward. And at absolutely no point in any game should low level adventurers be succesfully taking on a Dragon. Ever.

 

Yes I have an axe to grind.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Umberlin

[General_Disarray]

Skyrim's dragon'd me out. I'm currently sick of the buggers.

 

That said come 2014 I might have another hankering for some good old Dragon slaying. Just so long as they're speacial and don't drop down on you every time you leave a house.

[Piccolo]

Dragons really don't do much for me at all. I generally only find them interesting when they're mentioned in lore as powerful, legendary creatures. Almost every game i've played that actually has dragons as enemies has underwhelmed me.

 

If they are in the game though, I agree they should be rare, and also dangerous. Not pushovers like in Elder Scrolls.

 

The one thing Skyrim did do right though as far as dragons are concerned is Paarthurnax. I really like the idea of dragons being a highly intelligent race that the player can actually communicate with on some level, rather than just being another mindless, inherently evil enemy type.

[nikolokolus]

Im all for dragons just as long as they spawn every hour or so and we can absorb their souls and convert that into psuedo magical powers...

[Wintersong]

I'd prefer draconians to dragons. Quite different type of being, I know, but I would find them more refreshing/interesting. And can even be NPCs.

 

But if you really need big beast, give me the PE equivalent of the Tarrasque.

 

I'd not cry if you have dragons in the world and in the whole game you only get to meet one and not for combat reasons but to solve his riddles in exchange of some mumbo jumbo needed for your personal quest.

[Redwulf]

This has probably already been said but...

Let there be dragons.

Or maybe just one. Maybe have a dragon be the main goal of a quest or something. I could see multiple ways of solving it: kill the dragon, trick the dragon, or join the dragons unholy cause! Having more then 1 or 2 dragons though is a tad much I think. Speaking of 2 dragons, maybe you could have a quest where you try to reunite the lovebirds so that they may create a super horde of wyrms to dominate the land...of course giving you a 10% royalty fee for playing matchstickmaker.

[veryblackraven]

I liked the way Dragons were treated in BG2. There were very few of them. Most of them had names and were involved in quests. Firkraag quest was realy awesome IMO.

 

I can remember myself making a list of BG2 dragons. With screenshots, names, stats, etc. Firkraag, the Red Dragon; Adalon, the Silver Dragon...

[Dxmc4]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Divinity 2:DKS. I liked being able to morph into a huge dragon and fight incredible aerial battles, and it sure made it a lot easier to get around the map. That sort of thing might be a little over-ambitious here but Larian Studios, which makes the Dvinity games, is not a huge studio either. I would prefer something along those lines to something like Dragon Age with it's relatively static dragon battles, run to catapult, shoot dragon, run to next catapult, shoot dragon some more, etc.

 

I also remember some interesting dragons from Neverwinter Nights, and it showed that dragons can have a lot of purposes and can integrate a lot of different character elements.So I think dragons would be good if done imaginatively.

[Zed]

I enjoyed dragons very much in Baldur's Gate.

 

But I would prefer more original "big bad monster" designs. Even some Balor-like monster would be more interesting.

[Carcosa]

i am definitely on-board with dragons, so far as they're given their due and are an appropriately majestic, alien, and terrifying creature.

 

so, like everything else, consider me open-minded.

[Chunkyman]

I remember you from the Bethesda forums!

 

On the issue of dragons, I want them to be very rare. There should probably be a finite amount, I don't want dragons randomly spawning. Dragons should also be incredibly tough, so that when you kill one you feel like a god.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Personally, I'd like more personable dragons. I see no reason why a dragon can't be the most reasonable person in the room(massive, scaly, winged person though s/he may be).