[Merged] The races of the world, Please something other then Elves/Dwarves/Orcs/Humans?

[SCPPWP]

I recall that Torment had no need of race variation or cheap political subtexts to be successful.

 

That's what we're going for here folks, leave your poor man's RPG's at the door.

 

This entire line of thinking was started with the Witcher, which was fine as the concept was original at the time. But then Dragon Age had to include it, and now we can't have an RPG without foaming at the mouth racists in it. Its annoying now, so skip it.

 

Forget these crude ideas, and give me a good personal story a la Torment.

 

You're right, but we're discussing the setting here, not the story. Torment was already a really interesting setting to begin with. What we don't want is generic Tolkein high-fantasy.

[Drowsy Emperor]

That's fine, I was just saying we don't need what passes for grimdark fantasy today, which is nothing more than a spin on the standard fantasy setting anyway.

 

Considering they have a finished map of the world, I think the setting is pretty much decided upon and I don't know how much they're willing to change it if its already typical fantasy (and it certainly seems that way from the names on the map).

 

I hope its not, because that would pretty much beat the whole point of kickstarter as an opportunity to do something different. It says three races there.

Anyone wanna bet which three?

[The Wise Alaundo]

Elves are mentioned in one of the Stretch Goal comments as well - I'm with the OP though, creating a new IP and then going for the standard Tolkien archetypes would be a tad disappointing. No biggie of course, just... always frustrates me a little when we keep going back to the same ol' same ol'.

Edited September 16, 2012 by The Wise Alaundo

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'd like to see some well done dwarves I feel they have been slightly absent lately. You should poke Tim Cain for that because Magnus was best dwarf ever. Fairies would be nice too. Like proper mean ass British fairies who were demons before demons were demons.

 

Much of the folklore about fairies revolves around protection from their malice, by such means as cold iron(iron is like poison to fairies, and they will not go near it) or charms of rowan and herbs, or avoiding offense by shunning locations known to be theirs In particular, folklore describes how to prevent the fairies from stealing babies and substituting changelings, and abducting older people as well

 

One popular belief was that they were the dead, or some subclass of the dead. The Irish banshee is sometimes described as a ghost.The northern English Cauld Lad of Hylton, though described as a murdered boy, is also described as a household sprite like a brownie, much of the time a Barghest (Hell Hound) or Elf. One tale recounted a man caught by the fairies, who found that whenever he looked steadily at one, the fairy was a dead neighbor of his. This was among the most common views expressed by those who believed in fairies, although many of the informants would express the view with some doubts.

 

 

 

A matriarchal culture would be nice but making it overagressive and man hating will just seem tacky to me the best thing is a culture giving respect to and older woman figure within their tribe or village. Elven (Elvish?) creatures seem to suit this most.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Darth Giggles]

I think Obsidian should stay away from the typical dwarf/elf/orc races or take rewrite the way they are portrayed. elf characters could no longer be the usual skinny arse magic users or archers, orcs could be a non-evil race but keep dwarfs the same Kelgar Ironfist was the best dam companion character i ever had.

[Tagaziel]

I'd like to see Obsidian's take on so-called "beast" races (i.e. races not descended from apes). I'm partial to sentient felines myself, so I'll use that as an example.

 

Why? It creates friction. Elves, gnomes, halflings, humans, dorfs have one thing in common: they have a humanoid shape and share the same basic facial and body features, owing to a common heritage (usually, Arcanum played with it nicely). This provides good grounds for interracial communication and cooperation.

 

Now, it's harder to understand and work with a culture of powerful, sentient felines that have a comparative intelligence, but different ways of thinking, culture and simply look. Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim never explored the theme in full, billing Khajiit as thieves, smugglers and relegating them to the role of being The Elder Scrolls' general analogue of Jews in medieval times (particularly in Skyrim). Other few games that include them never really touched this subject or explored the theme.

 

And there's a lot to do. A reclusive culture that has a comparable, alternate level of development and keeps to its isolated lands, making interaction and communication difficult for the few who try to ignore tales and stereotypes fueling the isolationism/isolation of the culture. Or a clash of cultures, with the feline politicial/social system being much different from the feudal/proto-democratic system of the humans (maybe more advanced, like a timocracy, or an implementation of Plato's ideal state?). Have the races clash on multiple levels, not just "You pink ape"/"Spotted fur rug!"

[Nivenus]

 

Because different species can never get along together no matter how hippie and Star Trek you want to make things. It's a fundamental lie.

 

Not to mention things like dwarves clearly being inferior to humans. It's jsut laughable when Orcs (things that in most games are just mass idiots) and dwarves (short people somehow being a threat) are somehow suppossed to be regarded as equal. Elves are only threats because they are always mary sueish and infallible.

 

In other words the Emperor says purge the xeno scum.

 

Also humanity as a species only exists becasue we killed off our competitors. It's jsut human nature and natural in general to be attached to your species.

 

Racism is different becasue that's with two HUMANS. While wanting to bulldoze an elf town to have more space just makes sense.

 

And your evidence for that is?

 

Seems to me humans get along just fine even with non-sapient animals (i.e., cats, dogs, etc.). Sure, we compete with other species, but evolution isn't just about violent competition: there's also other means of competing (reproductive fitness, for one) as well as plenty of examples of cooperation (i.e., symbiosis).

 

I'd rather not go too far along this topic, because it's a distraction from the main thread, but that seems like a pretty closed-minded view to take, since we've never actually had experience dealing with other races or species we could communicate with before. In any case, elves, dwarves, and the like are closer to sub-species than non-human.

 

And god, please no monocultures. Humans have tons of different social norms and religions and philosophies. Why shouldn't elves?

 

I agree with this as well. We should see cultural variation within any races presented, at least insofar as human show variation within the game (presumably most human settlements will share a great many cultural similarities given the likely scope of the game, but there's likely to still be variation).

Edited September 16, 2012 by Nivenus

[Streamlock]

I can see where the OP is coming from to some extent. I know it's boring, but I would still like to see a 'human' option-being human and all. (A bit off topic, but I would also like to see humans with a greater variety of phenotypes/builds/hights what have you i.e. greater representation of our race beyond sex/skin tone)

 

Beyond that though, I think the whole vampire/lycan thing has been overdone. Option further into the game? Sure, but not during character creation. Unless the whole game is going to rovolve around that-I don't think it can be done right. Don't mind seeing them in the game, just not taking up the 3-5 player choice race/species type.

 

I'm also generally against the whole feline/kanine thing. But that is a personal pet peave of mine after inadvertantly stunbling in on some kind of....I guess 'furry' gathering drunk one night in the French Quarter. Scarred me for life........

 

Anyway, I would like to see some more creativity in player chosen race/species without falling to deep into familiar tropes or dropping into something overly obscure. Don't know about specifics though.

[lord of flies]

Let's talk about elves. Light-skinned, nordic features, constantly lamenting the fact that their low birth rates have doomed them to a slow oblivion, constantly talking about how much better they are than all the "lesser" races, "oppressed" by the terrible "lesser" races... sound familiar? Yeah, elves are basically white supremacists. Look, I see enough of that **** outside of video games. I don't want to be playing some fantasy RPG and suddenly be approached with a guy who jumped right out of Stormfront.

 

I will pay upwards of $5,000 if you include absolutely zero elves. This is in addition to my previous offer.

[Hoverdog]

While I hate elves, I feel that way due to entirely different reasons.

[Stiler]

I can see where the OP is coming from to some extent. I know it's boring, but I would still like to see a 'human' option-being human and all. (A bit off topic, but I would also like to see humans with a greater variety of phenotypes/builds/hights what have you i.e. greater representation of our race beyond sex/skin tone)

 

Beyond that though, I think the whole vampire/lycan thing has been overdone. Option further into the game? Sure, but not during character creation. Unless the whole game is going to rovolve around that-I don't think it can be done right. Don't mind seeing them in the game, just not taking up the 3-5 player choice race/species type.

 

I'm also generally against the whole feline/kanine thing. But that is a personal pet peave of mine after inadvertantly stunbling in on some kind of....I guess 'furry' gathering drunk one night in the French Quarter. Scarred me for life........

 

Anyway, I would like to see some more creativity in player chosen race/species without falling to deep into familiar tropes or dropping into something overly obscure. Don't know about specifics though.

 

When I mention Werewolf/vampire I do not mean having it be a little thing you can "catch" (a la The elder scrolls) but actually being a full fledged type of race, you start as, that is part of that world and not treated as a "disease" or something like it usually is.

[Nonek]

Hah good one, especially drow. Salvatores' got a lot to answer for.

[Xmasbeer]

Would you reconcider if elves had a comeback to greatness, enslaving the lesser races and were wearing heavy armor fighting with battleaxes? (with optional grenade launcher attachment of course)

[lord of flies]

Would you reconcider if elves had a comeback to greatness, enslaving the lesser races and were wearing heavy armor fighting with battleaxes? (with optional grenade launcher attachment of course)

Oh, yeah, you know what would make elves even better? If they were even more like racist white people. NO THANKS.

 

Also please don't use the term "lesser races," it's offensive.

[Leferd]

Along with Dwarf Tossing, I'd like to see Elven Neck-Wringing included in the game. Maybe as a mini-game if they must...

[NoxNoctum]

Let's talk about elves. Light-skinned, nordic features, constantly lamenting the fact that their low birth rates have doomed them to a slow oblivion, constantly talking about how much better they are than all the "lesser" races, "oppressed" by the terrible "lesser" races... sound familiar? Yeah, elves are basically white supremacists. Look, I see enough of that **** outside of video games. I don't want to be playing some fantasy RPG and suddenly be approached with a guy who jumped right out of Stormfront.

 

I will pay upwards of $5,000 if you include absolutely zero elves. This is in addition to my previous offer.

 

Haha :D.

 

Just out of curiosity what's your current pledge level?

[lord of flies]

Let's talk about elves. Light-skinned, nordic features, constantly lamenting the fact that their low birth rates have doomed them to a slow oblivion, constantly talking about how much better they are than all the "lesser" races, "oppressed" by the terrible "lesser" races... sound familiar? Yeah, elves are basically white supremacists. Look, I see enough of that **** outside of video games. I don't want to be playing some fantasy RPG and suddenly be approached with a guy who jumped right out of Stormfront.

 

I will pay upwards of $5,000 if you include absolutely zero elves. This is in addition to my previous offer.

 

Haha :D.

 

Just out of curiosity what's your current pledge level?

$20.

[Seagloom]

I don't mind elves as long as they are not the Tolkien inspired D&D variety. Standard issue elves make me cringe. What I would love to see are elves based on Norse mythology. The *real* elves.

[NoxNoctum]

Don't think there's anything wrong with the traditional races, if they put a seriously different slant on them.

 

I think in some ways that could be more refreshing than just having some totally alien race. Taking something you think you "know" and twisting it in fiction usually has more of an impact than something that is completely unknown to you.

 

That would be my preference, along with a few completely unique races.

Edited September 16, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[Any_ILL]

Don't think there's anything wrong with the traditional races, if they put a seriously different slant on them.

 

I think in some ways that could be more refreshing than just having some totally alien race. Taking something you think you "know" and twisting it in fiction usually has more of an impact than something that is completely unknown to you.

 

Except this too has been done to death. I mean you would have to change them so much that there would be no point in naming them "elves" except to reassure people who fears novelty.

[The Sharmat]

Loki was also a furry. He suited up as a female horse. That's how Sleipnir was born. Truly, the ancient norse were the most progressive of all cultures.

[Streamlock]

I can see where the OP is coming from to some extent. I know it's boring, but I would still like to see a 'human' option-being human and all. (A bit off topic, but I would also like to see humans with a greater variety of phenotypes/builds/hights what have you i.e. greater representation of our race beyond sex/skin tone)

 

Beyond that though, I think the whole vampire/lycan thing has been overdone. Option further into the game? Sure, but not during character creation. Unless the whole game is going to rovolve around that-I don't think it can be done right. Don't mind seeing them in the game, just not taking up the 3-5 player choice race/species type.

 

I'm also generally against the whole feline/kanine thing. But that is a personal pet peave of mine after inadvertantly stunbling in on some kind of....I guess 'furry' gathering drunk one night in the French Quarter. Scarred me for life........

 

Anyway, I would like to see some more creativity in player chosen race/species without falling to deep into familiar tropes or dropping into something overly obscure. Don't know about specifics though.

 

When I mention Werewolf/vampire I do not mean having it be a little thing you can "catch" (a la The elder scrolls) but actually being a full fledged type of race, you start as, that is part of that world and not treated as a "disease" or something like it usually is.

 

Well, I just don't see it working, or at least doing it justice without building half the game around it. Then your just making something like Vampire Masquerade in a fantasy setting. (Never did finish that damn game-to damn buggy). Not that I think it isn't a cool concept, just not really sure that is what they are shooting for, or even what I had in mind reading the (very vague) product dispcription on the KS launch.

 

This conversation does lead to a somwhat tangential discussion about having your species choice mean more then just some different sprite with tweaked stats, and the choice having deep and major consequences on how the game world reacts to that choice, and how your allowed to interact with it. I'm not sure if thats going to far off topic or not. It may be the reason they have such a limited # of build choices they announced.

[Apatia]

I'm ok with Humans/Elves/Dwarves. Actually when I think about it, I would be a little disappointed if elves and/or dwarves were left out. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker though since I think the game would be good whatever the races are.

 

Wouldn't hurt if those stretch goal races would be something else. Tieflings and catdudes might be overused too but I'm ok with those. Insectoids?

? Moomin? I trust your judgement, Obsidian.

[calabi]

I have to agree I am tired of Tolkein derivatives. Asian developers seem to get along fine without referencing some story some guy wrote along time ago. The trick is you dont need to have a ton of details.

 

There are plenty of options for races.

 

How about Neanderthals, and our other extinct bethren. Maybe call Neanderthals something different though because that has lower inteligence connotations, when their is no evidence that they were. Theirs enough variety in the ordinary human and social forms even.

[ShadySands]

I remember people guessing that the world could be at least partially inspired by Celtic mythology. Even it was just a random guess I'd still like to put forth the following

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Celtic_legendary_creatures