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Tropes that could be avoided


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I'm on the side of attractive women. That is to say women can be sexy without being 'over sexualised.'

 

tumblr_m8f4blO2Y21r34y4ho1_500.jpg

 

You see how the woman at the bottom is dressed more appropriately to her situation but is still attractive? I certainly don't want chainmail bikinis. Lol.

 

Also it's funny how people will defend the lack of reality on this topic but god forbid you should ask for a female character in COD. :) (Not that I would ever play COD :p)

Edited by Moonlight Butterfly
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Well if they treat them like they did in AP, that should be fine.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Seriously can we please keep this whole tropes thing out of this game. I really can not stand it anymore. Sexism, rape culture and so on. People its a form of media and every media has this sort of thing. And not only for men but also woman.

 

For example: Woman love handsome or strong and mysterious elf characters while men like the sexy female thief or character? why not give them both? And yeah if you want your tank to run around almost naked than let them do it but let them also take the consequences for example he/she can move very swift and fast but one or two hits will kill the character. Also it would be no real rpg without options for romance or sexy characters. Besides Baldurs Gate did a very good job here. So did Neverwinter Nights 2.

 

Also do not restrict the creators and writers like that. Yeah if it were a Bioware game you should be worried but this is not Bioware, or EA. This is Obsidian the guys who actually know how to write characters and stories.

Edited by Darji
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One I don't see mention and that really annoys me is wolves. Why does every fantasy RPG have zillions of wolves. Many of them running around alone and attacking armoured adults for no reason. Wolves run in packs normally. Wolves do not go out of their way to attack people. Sheep yes and maybe a stray child but a party of adults? Please Obsidian some more interesting monsters than wolves. I am sick of them.

 

This is... kind of a "thing" with me. Animals in games. They never do it right. Ever. Maybe hunting games? I dunno. Let's not talk about them.

 

Bears are extremely cautious creatures. If you ever end up in a fight with a bear, it's probably because it either feels like it's defending something (typically its cubs, in which case it will probably fight only long enough for its cubs to get away) or a food source (stay away from dead animals in the wild, yo). The other major cause for attacks? It's starving to death. It's probably a year-old black bear (which may or may not actually be black), a relatively small, inexperienced creature that can't hold territory and gets chased away from easy food by older, bigger bears, not the giant death-machine brown bear (which may or may not actually be brown). In which case, it's probably not going to fight to the death, and will run away as soon as you do any significant damage (or shoot some fire its way, because holy **** would bears ever be terrified of mages).

 

Far more likely, the bear will just avoid you. Like, 99% of the time. Especially if you're in a group. A hungry bear might go for a lone human or even a group of two, but six people walking and clanking along? That's about the most terrifying thing he'd ever encounter. Hell, most of the time, you don't even know the bear was ever there, because it smelled/heard/saw you first and got itself the hell away from you. Not that bears and wolves and what-not are common creatures to begin with; they're few in number and highly territorial, and you're far more likely to encounter... well, pretty much any other animal than a bear when you're just walking through the woods.

 

Of course, I'm not asking for a realistic simulation of animal behaviour. That'd be crazy. I'd rather you just... y'know, avoid the issue entirely. Don't fill up the woods with wolves and grizzlies. You have total power to put in whatever bizarre and awesome creature you want, so why would you waste that potential with real-looking creatures if they're just going to be mindlessly aggressive sword-bait?

 

And if you have to put an animal attack in, make it a moose. A cow with calves or a bull during rut. Those things scare me way more than bears.

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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

Edited by Audiocide
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Fireballs and healing potions are unrealistic too.

This always comes up in discussions of realism and it's an argument that annoys me every time.

 

Yes, it's a fantasy setting. No, it's not possible in the real world. That doesn't mean it can't be internally consistent with the world as it's built. When we're discussing realism in fantasy, we mean realistic and consistent behavior given the differences between our world and theres. You can't just say "well magic fireballs don't exist in real life so if I want the world to rain cakes I can." At least you can't if you want people to take the setting seriously. To bring back the eternal bikini armor discussion: If it's genuinely meant to protect the wearer, then it's unrealistic that women would get the same protection from their skin exposing outfits than men in full plate. If the men are wearing the same thing and the protection from the armor is not from coverage but some magical effect projected from it, then it makes sense within the framework of this fictional set of physical rules.

 

I'm not against titillation. Just keep it appropriate to the setting and context. You want attractive women in bikinis? Go to a beach. A battlefield isn't the place for it.

Edited by The Sharmat
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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

 

Of course you can get "laid" with the right answers in real life^^

 

And omg its still a game you can not be as real as possible. If I just hear they never get animals right....

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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

 

Of course you can get "laid" with the right answers in real life^^

 

And omg its still a game you can not be as real as possible. If I just hear they never get animals right....

 

You can also do that with all the wrong answers if you are the right type of dude, and all the right answers won't help you if you aren't. But that's beyond the scope of this forum so I'm not debating this here.

 

Just stating that the romance thing in RPG games ends up being a little juvenile most of the time.

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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

 

Of course you can get "laid" with the right answers in real life^^

 

And omg its still a game you can not be as real as possible. If I just hear they never get animals right....

 

You can also do that with all the wrong answers if you are the right type of dude, and all the right answers won't help you if you aren't. But that's beyond the scope of this forum so I'm not debating this here.

 

Just stating that the romance thing in RPG games ends up being a little juvenile most of the time.

Baldurs Gate did again a fine job. This is not Bioware....

 

Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

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Baldurs Gate did again a fine job. This is not Bioware....

 

Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

 

I had no idea what "tropes" meant, actually. Not very internet-savvy at the moment.

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do, and I'd be surprised if anyone at Obsidian took it that way. I'm only voicing my observations.

 

I think all the dialogue in Baldur's Gate was excellent, by the way. Not meaning to offend anyone, and not sure how true this might be, but a BioWare employee once told me that they did Baldur's Gate, and Black Isle did IWD and Torment.

Edited by Audiocide
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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

 

Of course you can get "laid" with the right answers in real life^^

 

And omg its still a game you can not be as real as possible. If I just hear they never get animals right....

 

You can also do that with all the wrong answers if you are the right type of dude, and all the right answers won't help you if you aren't. But that's beyond the scope of this forum so I'm not debating this here.

 

Just stating that the romance thing in RPG games ends up being a little juvenile most of the time.

Baldurs Gate did again a fine job. This is not Bioware....

 

Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

But... Baldur's Gate was Bioware?

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*sigh* how did I know the top thread would be the sexist/ sexy armour thread? Oh, I see it in EVERY gaming site everywhere I go and I am personally sick to death wtih it.

 

If you dress your companions how you want then they should have the option to be sexy (bikinni armour) or not sexy (unisex armour). As for the rest of the world I expect to see variety, there are going to be women who dress in realistic armour and be tough, however I also expect there to be women who dress in sexy armour and act more femine also (or mix and match). It is a GAME, it is supposed to cater to egos and fantasies. I am tired to death of developers not pushing the envelop because they are afraid of offending somebody or group.

 

Romances - I personally LIKE romances in games and think it should be in as long as its optional. It adds emotional links to characters and give them something beyond the adventure/quests in the game. Which is a good thing. Although I had a problem with the way bioware did it in the later games where it made EVERYONE bisexual. I have no problem with gay or bisexuality in the game, the problem was in how unrealistic it was. I just cannot accept that EVERYBODY is bisexual, it was just very lazy writing.

 

Elves/draves/dragons - ok, sick to death of them. Actually sick of the fantasy setting all together, wish we went somewhere else, sci/fi, steampunk, presentday..etc, maybe the next game?

 

Choosing the generic race or the usual races in the game - how about NEW optional races you could play? Something not seen before? Besides that, another person mentioned vampires/zombies they are sick of, but I actually like them, would be neat to play them (inteligent zombie..wah?!?!?!). Not many rpg games let you play monsters, it would be a nice change.

 

Rats - enough with the rat quests!

 

Time sink/fetch quests - enough with the meaningless time sink fest quests. Have each quest mean something, give an interesting story

 

Mindless NPC's - I hate going into a town and every non important NPC says the same one liners, so they are just walking billboards. I am not expecting a large dialog, but at least give each NPC a little backstory of themselves, or something interesting to say that makes them a little different and unique from each other.

 

Big city but only a few NPC's. This one bugs me like no other, you go into a large capital "city" or a large hub, but there is only like 10 NPC's in the area. This is supposed to be the bussiest place, but it is freaking small. It would be nice to see areas that actually have a lot of people in them to give it an idea of it being huge and very busy.

 

Everybody attack you - ok, you go into an area, you see two enemies attacking each other, however, if you attack anybody, they stop fighting and EVERYBODY attacks your character.

 

Mature does not mean mature - I have seen soooo many games that slap on the M title and then the devs will use it as a selling point in how mature the game is...only to realize the game is at best a PG-13 with a very small token mature moment (elder scrolls being the worst at this). When a title has mature, I expect it to be an actual mature game. It should have mature topics that cover things like, sex, sexism, racism, drugs, slavery, prostitution..etc. Some of these things could be things that the characters are trying to change.

 

Token Maturity - like mentioned above, the mature section is sectioned off in out of the way places. Like the only prostitutes are in the brothel, or there is only one drug dealer/user, or you have the ONE token person who is a racist/sexist/slaver..etc. It should not be in every area, but it should be prevelant enough that you should not have to look for it or read between the lines like a victorian romance novel to get the hidden meaning.

 

Characters treated the same regardless of gender/race/species/occupation - this drives me nuts, I think dragon age 2 was a big offender, you were a mage, you had a freaking staff on your back, antimage sentiment was rampent, yet templers treated you just the same as everybody else. I think arcanum/fallout/vampire the masqurade bloodlines were the best at treating people based on who/what you are.

 

Combat the solution to every problems - please allow SOCIAL characters to be created, I prefer NON violent solutions, using my brains in diplomatic/seduction/social skills to using a sword.

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I thought BG2 did romances pretty well, keeping them going beyond sex, and being able to screw them up, each one being completely different, etc. The relationship with Fall From Grace in PST was good too. I don't like the idea of having romances end abruptly and never being able to revisit them though. Missing a single dialogue option ending the tree and missing out on it. My friend did that in DA:O missing out on the Morrigan romance because he said the wrong thing once.

 

Also, pet peeve of mine: choosing the right dialogue options to get laid. A female wouldn't be attracted as much to what you say as what you do and what you are. In a realistic situation, if you're trying to decide on what the right answer is, you'd probably have no chance anyway.

 

Maybe just leave the romance thing out?

 

Of course you can get "laid" with the right answers in real life^^

 

And omg its still a game you can not be as real as possible. If I just hear they never get animals right....

 

You can also do that with all the wrong answers if you are the right type of dude, and all the right answers won't help you if you aren't. But that's beyond the scope of this forum so I'm not debating this here.

 

Just stating that the romance thing in RPG games ends up being a little juvenile most of the time.

Baldurs Gate did again a fine job. This is not Bioware....

 

Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

But... Baldur's Gate was Bioware?

 

You can not compare Bioware now with Bioware back than. All the talent Bioware had is long gone.

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I agree that part of a game being mature is simply not blushing and steering clear of hot button issues that would realistically come up in the setting as designed. But some concessions are inevitably going to be made for gameplay. I doubt a developer would be able to ship a game where women start with the old '-4 strength' stat penalty trope, even if it is sort of realistic. It limits player options, which is inherently A Bad Thing in a game.

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Seriously can we please keep this whole tropes thing out of this game. I really can not stand it anymore. (...) Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

 

Hello Darji. This is the internet and I find myself disagreeing with you. I know, it may be a surprise. First of all, I am not telling the developers what they should do. I (and others here) am just saying what I would like to see, what I, humbly and personally, care about because I enjoy CRPGs and I am looking closely at this project. So, I am sure we have much in common. Maybe you knew it but could not express it properly (it is fine, I am not clear myself when writing in this language).

 

Unfortunately, this is internet. Sexism is a hot topic and causes many threads to be closed. Many players do not see an issue in sexism. You do not and you are even fed up with the topic, like Badmojo. I am sorry you feel this way but please, let's just be... cautious and respectful. If you wanted to win something, I give you all. You won, I will not be able to fight a troll war in english.

 

NOW, about tropes/stereotypes/<any word people prefer> and Project Eternity: Obsidian probably already chose much of what is going to be put into the game, they gave us this forum nonetheless. I chew the bone happily. One thing I would like to say is that Obsidian is in a position to renew CRPGs. To invent something. I think that giving a kick in some "tropes" (the ones I do not like, of course), could be what could make this game a great game, a new reference. Choosing to step deliberately aside from the gaze of the horny teenage (and male, and white, and straight) computer-roleplaying geek we all have been to some extend.

 

(btw, Brienne > Red Sonja)

Edited by Margaretha
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Seriously can we please keep this whole tropes thing out of this game. I really can not stand it anymore. (...) Why not trust them a little bit instead of trying to tell them what "tropes" (what terrible fad at the moment) they should avoid.

 

Hello Darji. This is the internet and I find myself disagreeing with you. I know, it may be a surprise. First of all, I am not telling the developers what they should do. I (and others here) am just saying what I would like to see, what I, humbly and personally, care about because I enjoy CRPGs and I am looking closely at this project. So, I am sure we have much in common. Maybe you knew it but could not express it properly (it is fine, I am not clear myself when writing in this language).

 

Unfortunately, this is internet. Sexism is a hot topic and causes many threads to be closed. Many players do not see an issue in sexism. You do not and you are even fed up with the topic, like Badmojo. I am sorry you feel this way but please, let's just be... cautious and respectful. If you wanted to win something, I give you all. You won, I will not be able to fight a troll war in english.

 

NOW, about tropes/stereotypes/<any word people prefer> and Project Eternity: Obsidian probably already chose much of what is going to be put into the game, they gave us this forum nonetheless. I chew the bone happily. One thing I would like to say is that Obsidian is in a position to renew CRPGs. To invent something. I think that giving a kick in some "tropes" (the ones I do not like, of course), could be what could make this game a great game, a new reference. Choosing to step deliberately aside from the gaze of the horny teenage (and male, and white, and straight) computer-roleplaying geek we all have been to some extend.

 

(btw, Brienne > Red Sonja)

 

Here is the thing Margaretha. These topics especially about Woman in video games went in the last couple of weeks to level of pure stupidity. I am pretty sure you know the tropes in vdeogames kickstarter right? We are already that far that these so called feminists calling a game like Ico sexist only because you don't play a girl or have to protect a helpless girl. We are at a level were we call great indy games sexist. These people scream for equality in games but on the other hand cry out loud when woman get hurt in videogames and calling it rape culture (Hitman: Absolution or the new Tomb Raider is a good example for these "arguments". Its gone to a level that is not helathy for everyone anymore. And I am sorry when I am think of it. I don't have anything against strong Women in games actually I love them My bests friends are women and I have absolutely no problem here but its getting really tiresome. Something I don't want to have to worry here at all.

 

I have played many games from these people and they never try to portrait woman in a sexist way. And if you believe it or not there are many woman in the real world which tlove attention or witch love to look sexy. And these characters should be exist in these kind of games as well. Not all women are strong and have a lot of self esteem or as of course not all men.

 

Also tropes are a part of video games and their culture as well are these tropes are part of our whole society. What would a fantasy adventure without romance or a damsel in distress? Without someone you love and you have to rescue. And yes this could be a man or a woman. What would an RPG without these "animals" that are attacking you and totally not react like they would in real life? It would be pretty boring.

 

What I am trying to say with my bad English is that Tropes done right are not a bad thing. Let Obsidian just do their Job they know how to write characters and stories that are not sexist in any way.

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