The joys of the falklands..

[Raithe]

I have to admit, the recent spate of news over the Falklands is being a tad irksome.

 

http://www.dailymail...tick-views.html

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_1281143.html

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-17045169 - What are the Competing Claims?

 

The fact that the islands have been under UK rule since before Argentina existed as a country, and the majority of the population there want to remain under UK rule.. seems to me a good reason to question why they should suddenly get turned over to another country.

 

Sean Penn has done that wonderful thing, saying that the UK is showing old-school colonialism by keeping the islands.. I have to wonder does that mean he also thinks Hawaii should be handed off ? Or that all of his homes across America should be returned to the Native Americans who used to have possession of the land several centuries ago?

 

Instead he's happy spouting off that "The world today is not going to tolerate any ludicrous and archaic commitment to colonialist ideology," - Which pretty much seems to be what the Argentines are doing. The UK is supporting the right of the people living on the Islands to choose who they want.

 

Maybe it's my cynical nature, but I do get the feeling that the Argentine President is using the hot button of the Falklands to help distract folks from domestic issues...

Edited February 17, 2012 by Raithe

[Meshugger]

Alaska is a sign of colonialism that should not be tolerated. The americans should give it back to Russia as a sign of goodwill!

 

I am sure that Sean is with me on that one, right?

Edited February 17, 2012 by Meshugger

[Rosbjerg]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

But yeah, Britain is right here - because the people on the island wants to remain with Britain..

 

Sean Penn just thought he was cool and hip by bashing the old Empire - nothing to get riled about.

 

edit: aahh there's oil in the island.. that explains a lot.

[Gfted1]

Alaska is a sign of colonialism that should not be tolerated. The americans should give it back to Russia as a sign of goodwill!

 

I am sure that Sean is with me on that one, right?

 

Alaska was purchased from Russia.

[Calax]

Monroe Doctrine?

[Malcador]

The Brits are upset again ?

[Nonek]

Dear Mr Penn.

 

My government of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland have thought long and hard on your comments about colonialism, we have come to the following conclusion: We're not taking advice from a man who willingly decided to marry Madonna.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

Lizzy Windsor.

 

P.S. Sod off shortarse.

P.P.S. When is your bloody ex leaving.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Nonek

[Gfted1]

P.P.S. When is your bloody ex leaving.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, lets not say something we cant take back. Now that she has an English accent and all, shes yours.

[HoonDing]

At least Britain will always have South Georgia.

 

EDIT: oh wait, apparantly the Argentines took it too in '82 before getting their asses handed to them

Edited February 17, 2012 by virumor

[Walsingham]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

 

I'll say this low and slow:

 

BECAUSE THEY LIVE THERE.

 

If the people who live on the islands say the name is 'Falklands', and they vote freely to stay British, then I say we ****ing listen to them.

 

End of.

[Zoraptor]

It's all a domestic smokescreen. The Argentine claim effectively is that "the bishop of rome said so 5 centuries ago! The 'real' colonial master (Spain) claimed them! The americans beat us up then the brits stole them! Any of the above at various times!".

 

Beating the Argies in a war fought for them is easily enough for a it to be de jure ownership rather than a de facto claim, and always has been.

 

At least Britain will always have South Georgia.

 

EDIT: oh wait, apparantly the Argentines took it too in '82 before getting their asses handed to them

Mikael Sakashvili will invade in a bout of poor geographical knowledge, due to 'strong historical links' dating back to Stalin doodling on a map in a drunken stupor sometime in 1932. All will go well until his army notices penguin in the sea, thinks they are reinforcements and promptly runs away. Claims will be made that the penguins had suckered him into attacking in the first place and were on the way to the island before the attack began.

[Rosbjerg]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

 

I'll say this low and slow:

 

 

You didn't read the rest of my post it seems..

 

Also this seems to be a touchy subject? but I'm on your guys side, as I said, if the Falkies want to stay with Britain then that's how it should be.

 

My question was more in the area of why this is such a big deal (for Argentina), this didn't seem like a very important piece of land - until I read about the oil

[Gorth]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

 

I'll say this low and slow:

 

 

You didn't read the rest of my post it seems..

 

Also this seems to be a touchy subject? but I'm on your guys side, as I said, if the Falkies want to stay with Britain then that's how it should be.

 

My question was more in the area of why this is such a big deal (for Argentina), this didn't seem like a very important piece of land - until I read about the oil

Why did China want Tibet? Why did Sweden want Scania? Why did the USA want the CSA?

 

A mix of economic, strategic and nationalistic interests. In the case of the Falklands, it's a mix of nationalism and resources. Potentially large oil reserves in the sea bed.

[Humodour]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

It increases the owning country's exclusive economic zone - which typically means more fish and oil.

[Morgoth]

When will the Brits finally reach the 21th century and stop all the warmongering?

[Nonek]

When we've stolen all the foreigners tea and not before!

 

No seriously, have you seen and heard our women, we've got to have something to get us out of the house after tiffin. Might as well partake of the old hercules ride to a rumble, otherwise how would the world remember to loathe us with fitting vigour. Plus the price of a season tickets bloody criminal nowadays, so other diversions are needed.

[Nepenthe]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

It increases the owning country's exclusive economic zone - which typically means more fish and oil.

In this case, oil, or a high possibility of finding some, does seem to be the primary motivator.

[Walsingham]

Why does anyone even want that island?

 

 

I'll say this low and slow:

 

 

You didn't read the rest of my post it seems..

 

Also this seems to be a touchy subject? but I'm on your guys side, as I said, if the Falkies want to stay with Britain then that's how it should be.

 

My question was more in the area of why this is such a big deal (for Argentina), this didn't seem like a very important piece of land - until I read about the oil

 

The best book I've ever read on that question was Razor's Edge. Hugh Bicheno was an intelligence officer in South America and he argues that basically Argentina is mental. They have a twisted notion of national honour which essentially compells them to scrap over the Falklands even though there's no logical basis for it, the people living there don't want it, and in any case their military isn't up to it.

 

IMO this is the most important discussion we've had on this forum in ages. Because unless international opinion comes down firmly in favour of the islanders' right to decide peacefully where they live then Argentina might try violence. Hundreds if not thousands of lives will be lost. Write to your senator, or president, or witch-doctor and tell them Argentina is being crazy.

[Gorgon]

Argentina doesn't have any claim, neither of course does England. The islanders have correctly surmised that they needed the protection of a flag to avoid being prayed upon, If they are about to get fabulously wealthy off oil and mineral rights however... There are only 2000 people living there. I wonder if there are any limitations on how mineral rigths are doled out in international law.

[Raithe]

The islanders are about 70% decended from UK citizens, there's just over 3,000 people living on the island, and they've been firmly saying they're part of the UK for a loooong time. The oil is something that's cropped up since the 80's. In fact, Argentina suddenly withdrew from a treaty between the UK and Argentina over how the oil should be exploited a few years back.

 

Hell, in the Argentine-inspired poll back in the 90's, around 87% of the islanders were not in favour of even any discussion with Argentina over the question of sovereignity.

[Gorgon]

Of course they would say that, with the war and all. They can't police themselves.

[Walsingham]

Argentina doesn't have any claim, neither of course does England.

 

WTF? I assume you would follow that up with every country on Earth? We've no paricular 'right' to Swansea, or Portsmouth.

[Gorgon]

Denmark used to own the oil and mineral rights in Greenland, expressly because Greenland was a protectorate, same as the Faroe islands. That meant we were responsible for patroling it's borders and, theoretically at least, go to war with Russia if they ever decided to build bases there. Among other things we helped cover up an American neuclear accident in Thule. We very much had a claim if forgein powers decided to elbow in. Mutual benifit, despite this kind of arrangement going out of fashion over the last decades.

 

It's pretty ludicrous to say that a rock on the other side of the world is principally the same as Swasea, for all their desire to identify themselves as such. What they get out of the deal is the protection of being British citizens. e.i. the royal marines will come to their aid should the need arise, which it might, unlike in Swansea.

[Walsingham]

I could easily be being thick, but I don't follow your argument. Geographical proximity would mean that Britain has a greater claim to Paris in France than Glasgow in Scotland (distance to London). In fact Glasgow is nearly 100 miles further away from London than the Falklands are from Argentina.

 

The only remotely sensible - and still troublesome - definition is self-determination.

 

What you seem to be talking about - mutual benefit - is nothing more or less than a good basis for people choosing to associate.

 

Of course it also helps that the last the Argentines 'owned' the Falklands they behaved towards the islanders exactly as well as you might have expected the army of a fascist junta to behave. It's only about one generation ago now.

[Gorgon]

Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Gorgon