SW: The Old Republic Part 2

[kirottu]

13 minutes and then I'm going to crack this bitch up.

[Nepenthe]

13 minutes and then I'm going to crack this bitch up.

So, there's more German than English servers in Europe. To nobody's surprise (apart from Bioware, maybe), none of the German servers have a queue.

[Raithe]

Why do you think I've been using the US servers?

 

Sword of Ajunta Pell to be a wee bit more exact.

[Morgoth]

So, what's the verdict?

 

Is BioWare gonna destroy WoW with this puppy? Or are they gonna announce F2P model after 3 months already?

[Nepenthe]

Why do you think I've been using the US servers?

 

Sword of Ajunta Pell to be a wee bit more exact.

Yeah, I think I'm sticking to the European servers, being a bit further inland, so to speak. Can't comment re: wow as the last mmo I've played was text-based, but this does feel like something I'm probably going to play casually for quite a while - not that I have any options for "casual", considering the kind of workload I'm going to have.

 

Tried Jedi Consular and Smuggler and both of them were more fun than I expected, at least/even in the very beginning. Then server (Rogue Moon) went down.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Calax]

I'm on Drxel

[Calax]

And I've found my LEAST favorite quest IN THE ENTIRE GAME thus far... on the Jedi opening planet, you've got a quest to deal with a pair of lovers who are both jedi.

 

The "moral" option is basically "break up you twits, and get a life by our creed!" while the "dark" option is to let the relationship go and watch them become inevitably evil.

[Hurlshort]

Quite a few of the dark options aren't really evil, they are just more emotionally based. I actually liked that. It doesn't kill you to take on a few dark side points.

[Calax]

Quite a few of the dark options aren't really evil, they are just more emotionally based. I actually liked that. It doesn't kill you to take on a few dark side points.

I wouldn't have minded if it was that... but this was "Oh honey, bribe him so we can be together!" And the implication was that the simple fact of HAVING that loving feeling made those two become selfish unrepentant dickholes who'd watch the world fall for their own desires.

[Hurlshort]

Quite a few of the dark options aren't really evil, they are just more emotionally based. I actually liked that. It doesn't kill you to take on a few dark side points.

I wouldn't have minded if it was that... but this was "Oh honey, bribe him so we can be together!" And the implication was that the simple fact of HAVING that loving feeling made those two become selfish unrepentant dickholes who'd watch the world fall for their own desires.

 

On the same token, it's not like you are killing them. You are just reporting their relationship to their masters.

[kirottu]

Quite a few of the dark options aren't really evil, they are just more emotionally based. I actually liked that. It doesn't kill you to take on a few dark side points.

I wouldn't have minded if it was that... but this was "Oh honey, bribe him so we can be together!" And the implication was that the simple fact of HAVING that loving feeling made those two become selfish unrepentant dickholes who'd watch the world fall for their own desires.

 

You have an option when you return the quest back to lovers to not to take their trinket or whatever it was. You were protecting their passion or something and they are grateful for it. It didn't feel so darksided then, but I do agree how it felt when initially given.

 

I played Jedi Consular up to level 10 last night and generally speaking SW:TOR is still pretty much a mmo, but it is good enough for your hand occasionally to creep towards the quick save button.

[Cantousent]

I played Jedi Consular up to level 10 last night and generally speaking SW:TOR is still pretty much a mmo, but it is good enough for your hand occasionally to creep towards the quick save button.

That's actually pretty good to hear. I'm still leery, but I figure I'll join one of the Obsidz realms. I imagine I won't last long, but I look forward to seeing what folks think about it.

[Calax]

I do think that the concept of Light and dark side points AS WELL as the "Jedi vs Sith" stuff just seems... unnecessary. After all the entire point about Sith and Jedi is that they're light and dark jedi fighting it out for dominance over the galaxy.

 

I can understand from a DEVELOPER standpoint of having the moral choice within both sides. You don't want to have your player base set up in "Evil" and "Good" sides because most kids don't want to be "evil" so PvP would be RIDICULOUSLY one sided. But many of hte quests on both sides are HEAVILY slanted in one way or another towards the "right" alignment for their faction (for example, some of the sith inquisitor alignment options can come in "Light" "Dark" "uber-dark" varieties). I'd probably accept the entire thing better if it was known that there was a small power bloc within each factions leadership that was of the "opposite" alignments acting as a moderating influence/safe haven for those like them.

 

The Revanites Hurlie mentioned would have been fantastic, but they're so deep underground you see their hiney after hitting the planets mantle.

[Nepenthe]

Quite a few of the dark options aren't really evil, they are just more emotionally based. I actually liked that. It doesn't kill you to take on a few dark side points.

I wouldn't have minded if it was that... but this was "Oh honey, bribe him so we can be together!" And the implication was that the simple fact of HAVING that loving feeling made those two become selfish unrepentant dickholes who'd watch the world fall for their own desires.

Meh, that's just because you're used to seeing dark side options that look like Malcador's forum posts (I rofled on Friday while playing KOTOR when I realised this. I wonder if he secretly worked on the game and infiltrated this forum). I like it that DSPs don't mean killing puppies but instead straying from the "emotionless" jedi way. Which is, really, how it should be, remember that whiny **** Anakin's motivations?

[Raithe]

Well I've managed to hit level 17 as a Trooper. Still haven't actually finished the first act or picked up a ship yet..

 

Hm, the dark/light side choices of the Trooper tend to involve things like the question on whether stolen medicine should be returned to the troopers who it was meant for, or provided to the sick refugees who originally stole it..

 

Or political chicanery in the Senate, how close you are willing to break the spirit of the republics laws to reveal that a senator is trying to form a group to ally with the Sith and expel the jedi from the Republic. If you still the information to reveal it, you're not trusting the Republics laws or the will of the people... So you get a few dark side points if you go through with it.

 

Then there's the Esseles flashpoint, where you can do a quick and easy solution to a problem, that has the side-effect of killing some people (but it stops the Empire) or you can attempt a longer, winding route that might not work (which is of course the light side).

[Walsingham]

Hm, the dark/light side choices of the Trooper tend to involve things like the question on whether stolen medicine should be returned to the troopers who it was meant for, or provided to the sick refugees who originally stole it..

 

WTF? How are either of those shiny good guy? Or evil, come to that.

[Hurlshort]

Hm, the dark/light side choices of the Trooper tend to involve things like the question on whether stolen medicine should be returned to the troopers who it was meant for, or provided to the sick refugees who originally stole it..

 

WTF? How are either of those shiny good guy? Or evil, come to that.

 

The sick refugees pull at your heartstrings with a sick kid.

 

As a dark alternative, you can even threaten the kid to get the refugee to tell you were the drugs are.

[Nepenthe]

Hm, the dark/light side choices of the Trooper tend to involve things like the question on whether stolen medicine should be returned to the troopers who it was meant for, or provided to the sick refugees who originally stole it..

 

WTF? How are either of those shiny good guy? Or evil, come to that.

The circumstances make it a bit clearer, but it's still definitely not a clear black/white divide. Trying to get complex, or at least non-simple morality into a game with a dark/light side divide sure is going to create some... interesting situations. :D

[Malcador]

Meh, that's just because you're used to seeing dark side options that look like Malcador's forum posts (I rofled on Friday while playing KOTOR when I realised this. I wonder if he secretly worked on the game and infiltrated this forum). I like it that DSPs don't mean killing puppies but instead straying from the "emotionless" jedi way. Which is, really, how it should be, remember that whiny **** Anakin's motivations?

 

Hah, that was a nice one. Probably a good assessment of being DS, had thought it was just using your powers selfishly - but you'd only end up that way by giving in to a feeling (once you get hooked on one..). Might as well pre-order this now, heh.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, that's great. The circumstances show that I should screw over my sick or injured comrade. I think any man who's in a military unit and lets someone steal medicine that's meant to help his sick buddy should get dark side points no matter how you cut it. Of course, I figure they put in all sorts of nonsense to make it so you're actually evil for making sure that medicine goes to where it was intended. Typical.

 

Face it, in these bravely written and thought out games, you know who the bad guy is. Business tops the list. Yeah, that evil business is screwing over the people and so it should get it in the shorts. You know what would be nice? How about the player manages to screw over the business, gets darkside points, goes 'what the hell? and then there's a cut scene showing how the area is completely economically depressed after businesses start to fail and the owners go broke because of rampant lawlessness. How's that light side workin' for ya?

 

Of course, I haven't played the game, but the point of having this thread is to have a discussion with folks who have had that opportunity, so I'd like to take a stab at another scenario. I'm with Calax. If there's a couple who want to run off for 'love,' I say go for it. If they want to lie and deny their affair while staying at the academy, I say screw 'em. I wouldn't rat them out. I'd go up to them and tell them unless they wanted to head up to the authorities with my foot up their asses, they'll go admit that they're selfish bastards and get the hell out of dodge like an honorable person. It's not about breaking the rules in some high school social club. If you subvert yourself during Jedi training, you are the problem.

 

This is why I tend not to pretend that light side/dark side points in the Bioware games are just part of the mechanics rather than having any sort of 'nuanced' commentary on real issues. I like Bioware as a game company, but Bioware games have a predictable and pedestrian presentation of moral problems.

[Nepenthe]

Uh, how about you play the quest and get all the relevant background information instead of just pulling stuff that fits your preconception out of your ass? At least half of your suppositions are addressed in the storyline, and I've only played it once with one set of info...

[Cantousent]

"Of course, I haven't played the game, but the point of having this thread is to have a discussion with folks who have had that opportunity, so I'd like to take a stab at another scenario."

 

I guess I'm pulling information out of the asses of people who've played the game, since I don't have access it to yet. And the suppositions I use are drawn from the experiences you guys provide. I'm also going by past experience with Bioware games. The 'evil business' scenario is from KotOR 1, for example.

[Nepenthe]

"Of course, I haven't played the game, but the point of having this thread is to have a discussion with folks who have had that opportunity, so I'd like to take a stab at another scenario."

 

I guess I'm pulling information out of the asses of people who've played the game, since I don't have access it to yet. And the suppositions I use are drawn from the experiences you guys provide. I'm also going by past experience with Bioware games. The 'evil business' scenario is from KotOR 1, for example.

Yes, you're starting from your preconceptions and then using the part of the information available to support it. I've played KOTOR1 this past week, and can tell you that this game is miles ahead of it in how the morality is handled. I have no recent experience of KOTOR2 so I can't compare it to a similar system made by Obsidian, at least not without having a colored version of facts to work with, myself.

[Cantousent]

Well then, that actually makes me happier. I mean, I'm going to give it a shot no matter what. I like Bioware games, just generally not for nuanced moral decisions. :cant's wry grin icon:

[Nepenthe]

Well then, that actually makes me happier. I mean, I'm going to give it a shot no matter what. I like Bioware games, just generally not for nuanced moral decisions. :cant's wry grin icon:

I'd also like to point out that apparently neither myself nor Raithe actually took the option of giving the meds to the soldiers (due to the way the mission was set up, I did it because the refugees extorted a promise from me to give it to them in return for the information on their location - figured that between letting the enemy have them or giving it to the refugees, the latter was the better option). There are significant DSP options along the way, I'd like to know if actually giving them to the soldiers is actually DSP worthy (and if it is, is it based on you breaking your promise or the fact you gave it to the soldiers). So yeah, it's a bt more nuanced, and it's a shared side quest between soldiers and smugglers, the refugee alternative feels a lot more suitable as a smuggler (which is what I was playing, anyway).

 

Hurlie, you in the know?

Edited November 27, 2011 by Nepenthe