General Complaints

[Bakercompany86]

Normally, I would shelve a game of which I was disappointed, and believe me, nowadays that is common. In this particular case, though, seeing the Dungeon Siege name I feel compelled to write a short complaint note in the hopes that someone who worked on it will read it.

 

As an engineer in the games industry, I understand plenty about being forced in to bad decisions. But a handful of them seem unbelievable and avoidable.

 

Controls: I'm aware they're being fixed, but that's not an excuse. When GPG managed to make a superior control system 10 years ago, you know you have a problem. Your controls are terrible, particularly the camera control. I've developed camera controls before and I can't quite comprehend how a product of this caliber could fall so short on such a basic element. Hold right click to move? Really??? Run up to items and press e to pick them up? What in the world? Did you play the first two games?

 

Inventory: You're making dungeon siege. Do not change the inventory. Inventory management is a pillar of gameplay for dungeon siege. The game practically revolves around the acquisition of items. We've all played console games with fun inventory systems, even the original diablo port to PSX had the inventory right. Do not assume you must make a boring clunky inventory screen to support consoles. You're better than that. I hope.

 

Equipment appearance: Again, the game revolves around acquisition of loot. Why in the world would you regress so badly from the original two games? Surely you felt you could improve some aspects of the older games and branch out from them and put your stamp on the game, but why did you choose to neglect one of the main pillars of the game?

 

Neither the graphics nor the story are good enough (nor could they be) to alleviate the problems with the base gameplay. I'm sorry guys, you've put a lot of hard work in to this product but you had to know these aspects were not worthy of release. I hope you can show this post (and those like it) to whomever is responsible for forcing this release out the door. I was really hoping this year would be DS3, TL2, and D3, and I'm a little sad to see one of the games fall a little short.

 

 

Sincerely,

Will

 

While not a flame post, it generally sounds as if you're just bitter that they've changed it so much from DS1 and 2. And to compare this game to the two previous entries so harshly is a bit much.

 

Controls: Yes they are fixing it. Keybinding for PC users should have been in release for sure, however a day 1 response from a developer these days is unheard of. Cheers Obsidian for great customer service.

 

Inventory: Whats wrong with it? I can zoom through the menus at light speed and in a split second make a decision on a piece of gear. I really like their inventory system and i'm thinking this is a matter of opinion and not an actual flaw of the game.

 

Equipment Appearance: Yeah I would have liked to see a more progressive appearance based on loot, but the game looks great regardless. I also spend very little time looking at my character especially during the intense combat this game presents (assuming you're playing on hardcore, the real challenge).

 

Being that this is Obsidian's first DS title I don't understand why people compare it so harshly to its previous entries. It's one thing if its original developer screwed everything up, but this is a fairly ambitious title from a developer who didn't work on the previous 2 games. So again these complaints just sound like you are more bitter about how its changed and evolved from the other 2 games.

 

Other than controls which is a moot point if they're fixing it, you didn't even mention the real issues the game has which are minor. As every other thread states this game needs 2 tweaks and 1 addition to be near flawless. Tweak the MP camera, Tweak the MP loot, and add New Game+.

 

I am sorry PC guys got a wonky control scheme that can't be altered. I'm glad they're fixing that for you guys though. As far as the consoles, the controls are flawless and extremely comfortable. I'm glad they nailed a console dungeon crawler, and I look forward to future DLC and such from Obsidian.

[toastification]

You fanbpys know why gamers get so angry about bad games? Developers and publishers don't stand by the products they create and refuse to offer refunds for unsatisfied customers. So people complain ... it's all they can do and even then it falls on primarily deaf ears only to be met with vitriolic fanbboy responses from intellectually dishonest individuals.

Again, that's "not all they can do."

 

That is the whole point of these "intellectually dishonest" responses. Outside of a lack of polish of the PC version (keybinds/camera controls) and total amount of content, the vast majority of the tears are oriented around how this game isn't enough like Dungeon Siege even though it has the title Dungeon Siege 3 slapped on it. But a cursory search and viewing of a gameplay video could have told you all of that. You know why I got interested in this game? Because it obviously was made to be something different than the first 2 Dungeon Sieges.

 

Why is this so difficult to grasp? As pointed out above, why do people have the time to sit on forums and complain when they could have spent an lesser amount of time avoiding the situation to begin with? It's YOUR money. The burden of how you spend it is up to you. Dungeon Siege 3 is objectively not a defective product. You may think its overpriced for the total amount of gameplay/story/voice acting/cinematics/content it has in it, you may dislike the direction of where its design choices it took, but to proclaim that it entitles you to a refund because you are an incompetent consumer is mindboggling.

Edited June 26, 2011 by toastification

[MonkeyLungs]

I believe that if you sell something you should stand behind it. If you don't have enough faith in your products to offer a refund if customers are unhappy then I think that is on the person/company that lacks the testicular fortitude to stand up for the quality of their products.

 

Consumer protections were put into place because many companies are greedy and will readily shovel crap to the consumer. There are no such protections for games, unfortunately. What is mind boggling are poeple who stand up for companies/corporations like those groups have the people's interest at heart. They want our money, that's all. It is our job to be vocal and critical of the services and/or products offered to make sure that those products and services become better.

 

You can talk alll the blah blah you want though toasty ... the longevity (or lack thereof) of this game will tell its own story.

 

A half baked game like this should be released for half price. Its an OK game that does some things well but lacks ambition and longevity and is missing features I believe to be central to the genre.

 

Finally, I've never asked for a refund I have simply stated that other people who are unhappy with the product should receive a refund from SquareEnix.

[AnjyBelle]

You know why I got interested in this game? Because it obviously was made to be something different than the first 2 Dungeon Sieges.

 

Why is this so difficult to grasp?

 

 

I try to give you an example:

Years ago, the "Might & Magic" series was a big brand. Whenever there was a number behind "Might & Magic" (from I to IX), the gamers knew, that this is a sequel to the R P G-series, in other words: The player could be certain to receive exactly that what the name suggested: A full scale role playing game following the tradition of it's predecessors.

 

Then there were the other "Might & Magic"-games: Heroes, Crusaders, Warriors, Legends, Dark Messiah etc.; all with the "... of Might & Magic" in their titles. Now the customer knew, that these games will be different from the R P G-series, what they were, indeed.

 

These "offsets" were liked and disliked, but noone complained about being intentionally mislead by a package with a brand's name and totally different content.

 

And here is OBSIDIAN's lapse: If they would have called it "Dungeon Siege: The 10th legion", I guess, you would see 50% less complaints on all boards worldwide. But they didn't.

Edited June 26, 2011 by AnjyBelle

[AddziX]

You know why I got interested in this game? Because it obviously was made to be something different than the first 2 Dungeon Sieges.

 

Why is this so difficult to grasp?

 

 

I try to give you an example:

Years ago, the "Might & Magic" series was a big brand. Whenever there was a number behind "Might & Magic" (from I to IX), the gamer knew, that this is a sequel to the R P G-series, in other words: The player could be certain to receive exactly that what the name suggested: A full scale role playing game following the tradition of it's predecessors.

 

Then there were the other "Might & Magic"-games: Heroes, Crusaders, Warriors, Legends, Dark Messiah etc.; all with the "... of Might & Magic" in their titles. Now the customer knew, that these games will be different from the R P G-series, what they were, indeed.

 

These "offsets" were liked and disliked, but noone complained about being intentionally mislead by a package with a brand's name and totally different content.

 

And here is OBSIDIAN's lapse: If they would have called it "DS III: The 10th legion", I guess, you would see 50% less complaints on all boards worldwide. But they didn't.

I don't think the co-op featured advertisements did them any favours either. If this had been advertised as a normal, single player ARPG with an extra mode for co-op, then that would have likely made a difference too.

[C2B]

I don't think the co-op featured advertisements did them any favours either. If this had been advertised as a normal, single player ARPG with an extra mode for co-op, then that would have likely made a difference too.

 

Only the minority of the advertisments was co-op related . And even then it never really focused on online co-op but buddy co-op with your friend. Still it was a little misleading especially close to release date.

 

Also while I get the complaints regarding the mechanics beeing changed from the first two games..... these examples are all complete gerne changes. I mean... DSIII is still a hack n' slash/ARPG.... A different console based one but its not like I'm suddenly playing a first person shooter/action game or a strategy game or anything else.

 

 

Also M&M changed its mechanics quite a bit over its entries and went from fully turn-based to realtime. It didn't change quite as much as in DSIII but its still a very weird example.

Edited June 26, 2011 by C2B

[AddziX]

I don't think the co-op featured advertisements did them any favours either. If this had been advertised as a normal, single player ARPG with an extra mode for co-op, then that would have likely made a difference too.

 

Only the minority of the advertisments was co-op related . And even then it never really focused on online co-op but buddy co-op with your friend. Still it was a little misleading especially close to release date.

 

Also while I get the complaints regarding the mechanics beeing changed from the first two games..... these examples are all complete gerne changes. I mean... DSIII is still a hack n' slash/ARPG. Its not like I'm suddenly playing a first person shooter/action game or a strategy game or anything else.

 

 

Also M&M changed its mechanics quite a bit over its entries and went from fully turn-based to realtime. It didn't change as much as in DSIII but its still a very weird example.

Oh. The adverts I've seen have all been largely co-op based, just my luck I guess.

 

TBH, I think the control system is vastly improved from the previous games. It may be lighter on the customisation side, but the other games pretty much auto-played.

[greylord]

You fanbpys know why gamers get so angry about bad games? Developers and publishers don't stand by the products they create and refuse to offer refunds for unsatisfied customers. So people complain ... it's all they can do and even then it falls on primarily deaf ears only to be met with vitriolic fanbboy responses from intellectually dishonest individuals.

 

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

What, you're going to go eat at a Restuarant and if you don't like the food that you chose and ordered and was made according to regulations, you won't pay. I believe that's called Stealing.

 

Then again, maybe you are one of those criminals and should be put away.

 

IF it doesn't work or breaks your computer, I'd be all behind you, but to try to get money back on a working product is simply criminal in my opinion.

 

At least you aren't as bad as the pirates.

[C2B]

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

Oh my god did you see that new Pool of Radiance game? Sounds awesome. And if I don't like it I can just uninstall it. Nothing bad could ever happen.

 

 

 

....

 

Come on as bad and old as that joke is it needed to be here...

[MonkeyLungs]

You fanbpys know why gamers get so angry about bad games? Developers and publishers don't stand by the products they create and refuse to offer refunds for unsatisfied customers. So people complain ... it's all they can do and even then it falls on primarily deaf ears only to be met with vitriolic fanbboy responses from intellectually dishonest individuals.

 

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

What, you're going to go eat at a Restuarant and if you don't like the food that you chose and ordered and was made according to regulations, you won't pay. I believe that's called Stealing.

 

Then again, maybe you are one of those criminals and should be put away.

 

IF it doesn't work or breaks your computer, I'd be all behind you, but to try to get money back on a working product is simply criminal in my opinion.

 

At least you aren't as bad as the pirates.

 

I don't know what inspired you to label me as a criminal but it is competely baseless and just makes you look a fool. Also personal attack and stuff. Its ok I understand though, I can feel the desparation in the fanboys arguments.

 

 

On to your example/straw man:

If the food is horrible I wil go and talk to a manager and the chef if they let me. I won't steal but I will voice my discontent and inform them that I don't believe it is fair to charge me for the meal. Obviously I won't eat all of it either. Whether they have the will to refund my food/not charge me is up to them. I would still tip the server in the above described situation.

 

I never pirate video games. I play on Xbox 360 and I don't alter my Xbox either.

[greylord]

I believe that if you sell something you should stand behind it. If you don't have enough faith in your products to offer a refund if customers are unhappy then I think that is on the person/company that lacks the testicular fortitude to stand up for the quality of their products.

 

Consumer protections were put into place because many companies are greedy and will readily shovel crap to the consumer. There are no such protections for games, unfortunately. What is mind boggling are poeple who stand up for companies/corporations like those groups have the people's interest at heart. They want our money, that's all. It is our job to be vocal and critical of the services and/or products offered to make sure that those products and services become better.

 

You can talk alll the blah blah you want though toasty ... the longevity (or lack thereof) of this game will tell its own story.

 

A half baked game like this should be released for half price. Its an OK game that does some things well but lacks ambition and longevity and is missing features I believe to be central to the genre.

 

Finally, I've never asked for a refund I have simply stated that other people who are unhappy with the product should receive a refund from SquareEnix.

 

But DS3 works as it is intended, doesn't destroy computers, and is within regulations.

 

By your standards, NO COMPANY does what you are suggesting. NO nation enforces what you are suggesting. If it were actually broken or destroyed computers there ARE nations with laws that would call for refunds, but what you are asking for...not a single nation in the West...aka...free nation asks for what you are calling for. Even the non-free ones like China, don't have rules like that.

 

Maybe they do in the Middle East, haven't checked on their laws...

 

Try buying a new car, driving it off the lot and driving it for a few days, it has NO problems and works like it's supposed to, and then go tell the car seller that they have to take it back and give you a full refund, taxes included and see how far you get.

 

You'll probably be laughed off the lot, and if you get violent...arrested.

[greylord]

You fanbpys know why gamers get so angry about bad games? Developers and publishers don't stand by the products they create and refuse to offer refunds for unsatisfied customers. So people complain ... it's all they can do and even then it falls on primarily deaf ears only to be met with vitriolic fanbboy responses from intellectually dishonest individuals.

 

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

What, you're going to go eat at a Restuarant and if you don't like the food that you chose and ordered and was made according to regulations, you won't pay. I believe that's called Stealing.

 

Then again, maybe you are one of those criminals and should be put away.

 

IF it doesn't work or breaks your computer, I'd be all behind you, but to try to get money back on a working product is simply criminal in my opinion.

 

At least you aren't as bad as the pirates.

 

I don't know what inspired you to label me as a criminal but it is competely baseless and just makes you look a fool. Also personal attack and stuff. Its ok I understand though, I can feel the desparation in the fanboys arguments.

 

 

On to your example/straw man:

If the food is horrible I wil go and talk to a manager and the chef if they let me. I won't steal but I will voice my discontent and inform them that I don't believe it is fair to charge me for the meal. Obviously I won't eat all of it either. Whether they have the will to refund my food/not charge me is up to them. I would still tip the server in the above described situation.

 

I never pirate video games. I play on Xbox 360 and I don't alter my Xbox either.

 

You know what, I don't think it is really in the DS series of games, I think MP is toast...and some of your arguments I may support, but NOT FROM YOU. You've ranted and raved so much it's enough to turn friends into enemies.

 

You're the type at the store that will use some article of clothes and bring it back a week later well used and soiled and demand a refund, yelling all the time while you make everyone else listen to you be an absolute pain.

 

A nice coherent argument on your part I can understand, but demanding a refund for something that isn't broken AND YOU CHOSE YOURSELF TO BUY WITHOUT ANYONE FORCING YOU, is pretty annoying.

 

Take responsibility for your actions, instead of trying to blame the world for your woes, and you'll find that the world is a nicer place. Blame the world instead of taking into account your own actions, and even those who may listen will turn against you.

[athlondude]

You fanbpys know why gamers get so angry about bad games? Developers and publishers don't stand by the products they create and refuse to offer refunds for unsatisfied customers. So people complain ... it's all they can do and even then it falls on primarily deaf ears only to be met with vitriolic fanbboy responses from intellectually dishonest individuals.

 

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

What, you're going to go eat at a Restuarant and if you don't like the food that you chose and ordered and was made according to regulations, you won't pay. I believe that's called Stealing.

 

Then again, maybe you are one of those criminals and should be put away.

 

IF it doesn't work or breaks your computer, I'd be all behind you, but to try to get money back on a working product is simply criminal in my opinion.

 

At least you aren't as bad as the pirates.

 

Actually most REAL resturaunts will offer you something different at no charge if you were not satisfied with your meal for any reason. I know for myself I was offered something different for dishes that weren't particularly as appetizing as it looked in the menu, heck one resturaunt even paid for my meal because THEY thought it took longer to come out than it should have. Now of course you dont see this everywhere, but there are those that do. The same can be said with game companies for example, Microsoft use to and may still offer a money back guarrantee if you are not satisfied with the product, and there are a couple others that use to do that as well. Unfotunately thanks to software piracy this is something that many companies have either stopped doing, or wont even consider doing it at all.

[greylord]

If the game is broken, or destroys a computer, I may agree with you...but a game that works, your crazy.

 

Oh my god did you see that new Pool of Radiance game? Sounds awesome. And if I don't like it I can just uninstall it. Nothing bad could ever happen.

 

 

 

....

 

Come on as bad and old as that joke is it needed to be here...

 

 

Now THAT was one instance I may have supported people calling for refunds.

 

NWN also had that problem originally on occasiona.

 

What's really foolish is that some of these people, if they are in the right nations, may actually be able to go back to the retailer and return the game if the game actually has something wrong with it. That they are complaining about it and not doing anything about it says TONS.

 

They could even go to Ebay and sell it, it's still selling for round $40-$50 so they wouldn't take that much of a loss. But it looks like they'd rather complain than take responsibility over it.

 

I think 1.04 repaired the uninstall ability on PoR, but you're right, that's an instance where I'd have supported people returning it to the store and asking for a refund.

[MonkeyLungs]

For the record, and because some of you are real dense:

 

I have never demanded a refund for DS3. Not once.

 

I have made the statement, that is like just my opinion man, that people who are unhappy with their purchase SHOULD be given a refund by SquareEnix.

 

So #1 I have never demanded.

#2 I haven't advocated for a refund for myself. I don't want a refund.

#3 I believe people who are unhappy with their purchase SHOULD be given a refund

 

Car dealers are total crooks, of course they don't like to do full refunds.

[greylord]

For the record, and because some of you are real dense:

 

I have never demanded a refund for DS3. Not once.

 

I have made the statement, that is like just my opinion man, that people who are unhappy with their purchase SHOULD be given a refund by SquareEnix.

 

So #1 I have never demanded.

#2 I haven't advocated for a refund for myself. I don't want a refund.

#3 I believe people who are unhappy with their purchase SHOULD be given a refund

 

Car dealers are total crooks, of course they don't like to do full refunds.

 

I suppose you are also one of those that goes and buys a perfectly working HD TV, uses it heavily for two days and then tries to return it because you thought it was a computer and it wasn't.

 

Then you complain to high heaven in the store because it's not a computer and we all wonder why you bought a TV if you wanted a computer in the first place.

 

However, you aren't even advocating returning it to the place you bought it...you are saying that the TV maker should refund someone's money because they wanted it to be a computer.

 

I don't think you realize how ridiculous you are making it sound on your refund demands.

[MonkeyLungs]

What are you on about Greylord? Seriously dude wtf? What do TV's have to do with this? You keep throwing out all this what if's about me that are not only nonsensical but have no grounding in anything I have ever said. I bought an HDTV a couple years ago from BestBuy and it works like a champ! I was stoked on my purchase, it has way more features than I even need, SWEET!

 

Do you realize who is actually being ridiculous here? You're just tossing straw man after straw man after what if after you probably at me like that is an acceptable way to argue.

[greylord]

What are you on about Greylord? Seriously dude wtf? What do TV's have to do with this? You keep throwing out all this what if's about me that are not only nonsensical but have no grounding in anything I have ever said. I bought an HDTV a couple years ago from BestBuy and it works like a champ! I was stoked on my purchase, it has way more features than I even need, SWEET!

 

Do you realize who is actually being ridiculous here? You're just tossing straw man after straw man after what if after you probably at me like that is an acceptable way to argue.

 

You are claiming a game that does exactly what it says it does, and isn't buggy for you from what I've seen, should give refunds for NOT being what YOU THOUGHT it was.

 

That's about as relavant to the example as you get.

[MonkeyLungs]

The horribly crippled online camera is a technical deficiency. Even if it is working as intended is not an excuse. I believe that issue alone is worth a refund from SquareEnix.

[Sasha_Je]

o.O you are so off-topic. The problem is that the users are having the same problems as in the past. Let me give you a pretty recent example, Bethesada made Fallout 3, another acclaimed RPG, anyway a big issue for a lot of players was that after you finished the main quest you had no possibility to go back and complete some unfinished side quests ( let's just say that some people fixed on the main quest and left all the side quest for post-game ) well now Obsidian develops Fallout New Vegas and my surprise was that the game mechanics where the same. The community bitched like crazy and they released a patch.

Conclusion: Why did Obsidian made the same mistake as Bethesada? Why does Dungeon Siege III is called a ARPG/Dungeon Crawler but has 6-8 game-play hours with no New Game+ mechanics or the possibility to go back and level up/loot items? Why did Obsidian tried to make a mixture of dungeon crawler and the dialog choices hyped by Dragon Age/Mass Effect. ARPG/Dungeon Crawler games is all about level up/loot/customization and tons of game-play hours, if you don't like this then go play something else but the fans of this franchise expected a superior version of Dungeon Siege I/II. Search the internet for all the types of RPG and chose what you like. Overall we buy the game, we give them money and in this harsh days every mistake should be taxable. What i am trying to say is that if no one, and i mean no one would buy the next product of Obsidian....well trust me that the next title will be mind blowing. And i am not only talking about Obsidian but in general...devs got lazy, half developed games and finished trough DLC, such a shame that so many gamers felt for this marketing trick. Major companies use high-end tech in order to make us buy high-end hardware products ( major money here ) and the rest just use the name of old good franchises. Why should i read/watch previews and interviews when the company can develop a proper Demo and release it 1 week before the official lunch and based on that users decide if the game is worth buying. I don't know what to say but we gave too much power to communities like Gamespot/IGN and so on...scores/rank/grades on those sites have their price in my opinion therefor everything is non-factor. It's all about good PR and marketing decisions but the ones who suffer are us. Everyone of of them wining money, we lose some...

Edited June 26, 2011 by Sasha_Je

[AnjyBelle]

Also M&M changed its mechanics quite a bit over its entries and went from fully turn-based to realtime. It didn't change quite as much as in DSIII but its still a very weird example.

 

AFAIR the M&M-games I-IX were never "turn-based" per se; initiative, speed etc. determined a character's turn. But perhaps you didn't notice that.

And of course - the game changed over time. From 6 - 8 party members the group shrinked to 4. But nevertheless, the player had full control over them.

I agree - there were simplifications in the later sequels in regard of skills, but never down to a level which would nowadays be called "dumbed down".

 

But still - all sequels were full scale RPGs, with nice playtimes (50 hours+), with an abundance of items and stuff and the possibility for individual party development. Thus, no party was

like the other. Tons of quests and sidequests, many towns, no level cap (at least I never came close) and... and... and

 

 

You think, that the example is "weird"?

I don't care.

[FaceGoober]

Its annoys the crap out of me jumping into forums and seeing people do nothing but try to shoot down other peoples posts...

Its mostly fanboys trying to shoot down people with legitimate complaints and I find them very annoying and pathetic.

 

This game has very short single player, no extended play and bad MP... there is PLENTY to complain about and the benefits of this game do, in no way, out shine the flaws...

 

Even you fan boys will be done with this game after 2 weeks id say...

This game is fun for a short period but it gets very dull, very fast with nothing to keep you going....

[ShadowScythe]

Its annoys the crap out of me jumping into forums and seeing people do nothing but try to shoot down other peoples posts...

Its mostly fanboys trying to shoot down people with legitimate complaints and I find them very annoying and pathetic.

 

This game has very short single player, no extended play and bad MP... there is PLENTY to complain about and the benefits of this game do, in no way, out shine the flaws...

 

Even you fan boys will be done with this game after 2 weeks id say...

This game is fun for a short period but it gets very dull, very fast with nothing to keep you going....

 

I don't think anyone's trying to shoot down your posts, it just gets tiring to see yet another thread about the usual complaining and moaning and it's hard to tell that apart from actual feedback. If you have actual requests go post it in the community request thread and hopefully the devs will hear you (be nice about it though because that's one of the few threads that isn't plagued by random moaning and complaining).

 

That other bit about how the benefits don't outweigh the flaws is just your opinion though and it's a little hypocritical that you claim that fanboys shoot down everyone's complaints and then you proceed to force your own views down everyones' throats.

[AddziX]

Also M&M changed its mechanics quite a bit over its entries and went from fully turn-based to realtime. It didn't change quite as much as in DSIII but its still a very weird example.

 

AFAIR the M&M-games I-IX were never "turn-based" per se; initiative, speed etc. determined a character's turn. But perhaps you didn't notice that.

And of course - the game changed over time. From 6 - 8 party members the group shrinked to 4. But nevertheless, the player had full control over them.

I agree - there were simplifications in the later sequels in regard of skills, but never down to a level which would nowadays be called "dumbed down".

 

But still - all sequels were full scale RPGs, with nice playtimes (50 hours+), with an abundance of items and stuff and the possibility for individual party development. Thus, no party was

like the other. Tons of quests and sidequests, many towns, no level cap (at least I never came close) and... and... and

 

 

You think, that the example is "weird"?

I don't care.

Erm, can you check your quote please? I didn't say that, I think you meant to quote C2B!

[GhostofAnakin]

It appears it's a good thing I never did play DS 1 and 2, because from the sounds of it this one plays nothing like them.

 

In that respect, I'm glad I went in not knowing the previous installments. I'm thoroughly enjoying this game, from the fun combat, to the solid (though not very deep) story, to even the loot I find along the way. The only complaint I have is the sometimes awkward camera angles.