funcroc Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 http://www.gamestm.co.uk/interviews/obsidi...planned-new-ip/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 a PC game I worked on was Icewind Dale, which required you to roll six whole second-edition D&D characters before you could even start playing the gameYes, and it was great fun... probably the last time a mini game was actually fun No one would get through character creation nowadays.Has the human gene pool really deteriorated that rapidly in last decade? Depressing prospects >_ “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowScythe Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) I'd say it's less human gene pool deterioration and more niche markets no longer being viable. Although what with all the hand holding in many games nowadays there probably still is some deterioration going on. Edited June 21, 2011 by ShadowScythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 a PC game I worked on was Icewind Dale, which required you to roll six whole second-edition D&D characters before you could even start playing the gameYes, and it was great fun... probably the last time a mini game was actually fun No one would get through character creation nowadays.Has the human gene pool really deteriorated that rapidly in last decade? Depressing prospects I never liked creating six characters. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I agree with Ferg. Better have it accessible at the start and ramp up complexity as the game goes on. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendu Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yup, easy to learn, hard to master. That's a winning formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Being an old AD&D nut i've never minded character creation, it gets me salivating for the main campaign but I can understand how somebody not versed in the rather OCD nature of roleplaying games might be somewhat bewildered by all the stats and such. Would a system such as the old Ultima gypsy questioning system work better for making a character but rather than questions based on the virtues have it be actions based on your circumstances. Say for instance in the prologue chapter you awaken in a prison cell with slain guards all around you (original eh) having no real conception of your character other than their looks and voice, you hear the sound of guards running to investigate and get a number of options that will begin to shape your character say: A, Pick up a sword from one the dead bodies and prepare for combat (strength). B, Change clothes with and hide among the dead bodies (cunning). C, Wait patiently in your cell and try to reason with or bluff the guards (persuasion). D, Gather your will and summon the shadows to hide you in the gloom of your cells depths (willpower/magic). E, Sneak through the shadows, hiding amongst empty cells and such (agility). Be a lot of work keeping track of such things but thinking about it Alpha Protocol kind of does this with its perks and makes the game all the more reactive in my opinion. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Has the human gene pool really deteriorated that rapidly in last decade? More like last 2.5 years. I'd say it's less human gene pool deterioration and more niche markets no longer being viable. Niche market are no longer desirable for Obsidian Entertainment you mean. They are still just as viable as they were before. I wish Feargus had just that simpler games sell more copies rather than claim that "modern gamers" don't like complexity. I'm willing to bet that the number of gamers who want a deep experience is the same or larger now than it was a decade ago. There's just a bigger group of gamers that like simple games and Obsidian is trying to cater to them, whereas in the past, they were making niche RPG's for gamers who wanted a more complex experience. It's not evolution, and those gamers who liked NWN2 and its expansions haven't collectively developed ADD or died off in the past 3 years. Oh, and how come can handle complex character creation but RPG players can't? Edited June 21, 2011 by thesisko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 whereas in the past, they were making niche RPG's for gamers who wanted a more complex experience. man, you don't have a clue... there were no "niches" 15 years ago. "in the past", hah, that's a good one Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) whereas in the past, they were making niche RPG's for gamers who wanted a more complex experience. man, you don't have a clue... there were no "niches" 15 years ago. "in the past", hah, that's a good one Really? Niche game 1997 Mainstream game 1996 (9 million sold) Niche game 2000 Mainstream game 2000 (6 million sold) Mainstream game 2000 (9 million sold) Niche game 2006 Mainstream game 2006 (5 million sold) Niche game 2009 Mainstream game 2010 (5 million sold) Your point was? Claiming that there were no niche games 15 years ago is ignorant. PC gaming in itself was (and is) a niche and PC RPG's were even more niche. What do you think sold most, Quake or Fallout? The Sims or Icewind Dale? New Vegas or Risen? Storm of Zehir or Mass Effect 2? Obsidian (or rather, the publishers they approach) aren't interested in making niche titles anymore, they want to sell millions of copies, just like Diablo 2, The Sims, Oblivion or other mainstream titles...whether they are from 1996 or 2011. Edited June 21, 2011 by thesisko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 PC gaming in itself was a niche Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 PC gaming in itself was a niche What's the matter? I don't know about you, but in my high-school class (1996-1999) I was the only one playing PC RPG's. Some guys had played Duke Nukem and Quake, but most of my classmates either didn't game at all, or had a Nintendo/Playstation. That not niche according to you? Maybe where you grew up everyone was playing Wizardry on a PC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wait. People really think the rolling up of a party in IWD is a complex and off-putting activity? That's kind of like saying wiping your backside after a crap is a complex and off-putting activity. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Maybe where you grew up everyone was playing Wizardry on a PC? well naturally, duh Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Wait. People really think the rolling up of a party in IWD is a complex and off-putting activity? That's kind of like saying wiping your backside after a crap is a complex and off-putting activity. No. Obsidian's CEO thinks that a simple action RPG that doesn't need character creation potentially sells more copies than a more complex tactical RPG (and he's probably correct). However, he's expressing it in a way that makes it sound like he thinks that gamers used to love character generation but now can't stand it. Completely ignoring the fact that one group (IWD buyers) were a few hundred thousand PC RPG fans while the other is a few million console gamers who just want a random action game. There are plenty of modern PC games that are far more complicated than IWD, but Obsidian obviously isn't interested in making a complex PC game. Saying it's impossible is insulting to those companies and to the gamers who like that type of games. Edited June 21, 2011 by thesisko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wait. People really think the rolling up of a party in IWD is a complex and off-putting activity? That's kind of like saying wiping your backside after a crap is a complex and off-putting activity. No. Obsidian's CEO thinks that a simple action RPG that doesn't need character creation potentially sells more copies than a more complex tactical RPG (and he's probably correct). However, he's expressing it in a way that makes it sound like he thinks that gamers used to love character generation but now can't stand it. Completely ignoring the fact that one group (IWD buyers) were a few hundred thousand PC RPG fans while the other is a few million console gamers who just want a random action game. There are plenty of modern PC games that are far more complicated than IWD, but Obsidian obviously isn't interested in making a complex PC game. Saying it's impossible is insulting to those companies and to the gamers who like that type of games. OK that makes sense. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wait. People really think the rolling up of a party in IWD is a complex and off-putting activity? That's kind of like saying wiping your backside after a crap is a complex and off-putting activity. No. Obsidian's CEO thinks that a simple action RPG that doesn't need character creation potentially sells more copies than a more complex tactical RPG (and he's probably correct). However, he's expressing it in a way that makes it sound like he thinks that gamers used to love character generation but now can't stand it. Completely ignoring the fact that one group (IWD buyers) were a few hundred thousand PC RPG fans while the other is a few million console gamers who just want a random action game. There are plenty of modern PC games that are far more complicated than IWD, but Obsidian obviously isn't interested in making a complex PC game. Saying it's impossible is insulting to those companies and to the gamers who like that type of games. I... don't really see how you got that from it. New Vegas and AP beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) I... don't really see how you got that from it. New Vegas and AP beg to differ. How do two mainstream console games beg to differ that Obsidian isn't interested in making complex tactical RPG's like Icewind Dale or Storm of Zehir? Note: I like and own both those games, just saying they aren't exactly complex tactical RPG's. Edited June 21, 2011 by thesisko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I like Mr. U, but he is is imply wrong here. As mentioned on the Codex, even main stream sports games like NBA 2K11 and Madden feature character creation and hits you with more stats, rules, and stuff than any RPG cna ever hope to. To claim that mainstrema agmers cna't handle stats or character creation is just plain balony. Last i checked NWN series were gretas ellers yet their characetr creation systems weren't exactly akin to what he claims sellls and NWN2 wasn't THAT long ago. There are no facts to back up his arguments in this case. Sorry. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I... don't really see how you got that from it. New Vegas and AP beg to differ. How do two mainstream console games beg to differ that Obsidian isn't interested in making complex tactical RPG's like Icewind Dale or Storm of Zehir? Note: I like and own both those games, just saying they aren't exactly complex tactical RPG's. *tactical* Isn't exactly what I answered to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 *tactical* Isn't exactly what I answered to. Right. In my opinion NV and AP are both simple games that require little more understanding than "Follow quest compass" and "Point and shoot gun", whereas earlier Black Isle RPG's usually required you to understand a variety of abilities and tactics in order to progress. Hence, in my opinion, AP and NV are a lot less complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qaz156 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think Obsidian is starting to get it wrong these days. I'd rather play a buggy game that is awesome at its core, than a sub-par game that runs like butter. The former can be fixed with patches, the latter - not so much. I think we got the latter with Dungeon Siege 3, according to reviews. It's bug free - but who really cares? The loot system doesn't really drop any rare items that make you FEEL the difference. And no one seems to be able to make sense of the stats. The characters and voice acting are wooden - the LAST thing you'd expect from Obisidian, making a game that should have come from Ubisoft, not my favorite rpg maker. "To be, or not to be a real RPG, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows or outrageous action... or by taking up arms against a sea of crap and by opposing: end them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For people thinking that Feargus suddenly changed his mind: Neverwinter Nights 2 was originally planned to be a multi-platform title, but that plan ended up being scrapped pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesisko Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For people thinking that Feargus suddenly changed his mind: Neverwinter Nights 2 was originally planned to be a multi-platform title, but that plan ended up being scrapped pretty quickly. Changed his mind about what? Gamers able to handle character creation in 2008 but not in 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sannom Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (1) And no one seems to be able to make sense of the stats. (2) The characters and voice acting are wooden - the LAST thing you'd expect from Obisidian, making a game that should have come from Ubisoft, not my favorite rpg maker. (1) It's not Obsidian's fault if some of the people who plays and reviews the game are absolute morons. Impossible to make sense of the stats, AH! Not to mention some morons who flat out said that Obsidian is too slavish of pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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