Dragon Age II Has the Best Writing since PS:T

[greylord]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

 

I've always loved that. Sci-fi babble and adlibbing mixed into emotional climax. Oscar worthy scene for sure.

 

Back to the topic. Is there some bulletproof definition what "writing" means in context of games? Sometimes people confuse "writing" with "storyline" or are those two inseparable. Or is the "writing" same thing as question - What is a RPG? You get 100 different answers from 100 different people.

 

Bad Game writing is where you decide to defend some mages, fighting Templars, beat the snot out of everything the Templars send you, so the Head Mage whom you are allied and are protecting decides to turn to blood magic, become and abomination, and attack you because he feels that they are winning and beating you so badly....though all evidence that he sees before his eyes tells the EXACT OPPOSITE...that you are beating the tar out of the Templars.

 

AKA...makes absolutely NO sense.

 

Bad Game writing is where you are a Mage standing in front of Templars who send every mage to the circle...and they let you wander around freely doing whatever you wish...

 

Bad Game writing assumes that though you or your sister are a Mage, and they sent your sister to the Circle...that you would ally against your family so that you can slaughter all mages (which theoretically would include said only sister and closest remaining member of your immediate family...because she has loved you from the start, has friendship maxed from the start, and obviously because of that deserves to die along with all the rest of the mages for the actions of one single terrorist Mage who isn't even part of the circle...and who also they let run freely about).

 

AKA...makes NO sense...

 

Bad storyline is when you create a three act story that really doesn't connect together in the third act, instead each having their own separate story line with only slight inferences to an overarching plot that resolves itself in three single quests (out of almost 75 quests to put it in perspective) that each take less than 1/10 of the game time to actually play through.

 

Hmm....

 

Oh wait...I think DA2 had all of those items...does that make bad storyline AND bad writing?

Edited March 20, 2011 by greylord

[Volourn]

"Heh, Volly has never really played AP yet he's free to spew his lies. But oh dare us who barely played DA2 to crush it down, we gain Volley's eternal wrath."

 

Don't lie. I played AP.

 

 

Greylord: You are wrong. Simple as that.

[Wrath of Dagon]

You have to separate writing from plot. Although a badly constructed plot certainly detracts from the perception of the writing. In a video game, writing mainly comes through dialogs, since there's little exposition (hopefully).

[Orogun01]

You have to separate writing from plot. Although a badly constructed plot certainly detracts from the perception of the writing. In a video game, writing mainly comes through dialogs, since there's little exposition (hopefully).

Not just through writing, though largely ignored because of mind frames gameplay also requires writing. Games after all an interactive medium, it should be on the writer's mind what the player feels after taking out 200 guys without remorse and how to use that to create a cathartic response.

A la Metal Gear Solid.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I know, but it's hard to judge the quality of the writing just on that, because it is so intertwined with design, although really it's the most important thing in a game. That's why I used a caveat.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Wrath of Dagon

[Orogun01]

I know, but it's hard to judge the quality of the writing just on that, because it is so intertwined with design, although really it's the most important thing in a game. That's why I used a caveat.

I agree, I believe it's mostly because despite all the strides forward gameplay remains at the forefront. Which is why I believe that the great undermined gameplay should be the focus of storytelling, a great example of this would be Bioshock.

 

Only 2 major cinematics, the rest was experienced through the character's eyes and it is still one of the most well crafted universes in gaming. We basically got all the finer points their interpretation of Objectivism through gameplay, with minimal use of cinematics and infodumping.

[Zoraptor]

Out of interest, have you played either System Shock 2 or Thief: The Dark Project/ Gold, Orogun?

[Orogun01]

Out of interest, have you played either System Shock 2 or Thief: The Dark Project/ Gold, Orogun?

Good examples too, just spoke the one most recent.

 

I specially liked System Shock 2, no surprise there. Thief on the other hand I could do without the slow gameplay, although I once I got past that I saw what everyone was talking about.

[Ice9]

I haven't played DA2 yet, but if it writing is on par with Vampire: Bloodlines, I'll be willing to overlook every little flaw with it.

[greylord]

I haven't played DA2 yet, but if it writing is on par with Vampire: Bloodlines, I'll be willing to overlook every little flaw with it.

 

I'm not certain why people are praising the writing in DA2, to me it's about one of the worst written games I've ever played. There are a LOT of things that make NO sense at all, and much of the dialogue is extremely cringe worthy. It's like a Fantasy Movie dialogue made by Syfy...but worse.

 

I went back and played the ME series...and the differences in writing is night and day.

 

In addition the Storyline in DA2 isn't all that coherent and doesn't really make sense. So you have one leader inspired by a magic weapon that influences attitude...but the other leader...their decisions at the end of the game make NO sense really. In fact, there's much about the basic set up of the entire game that really don't make coherent sense. It's like whoever made the storyline wanted to make 3 different games and then tried to link them all up nicely at the very end.

 

Sort of like if I wanted to create a movie out of three different movies, so I take where they are jsut starting out with Fellowship of the Ring, then have some epic battle with Return of the Jedi...and then include Indiana Jones and the last Crusade as the last little bit and try to write an end that ties all three into one movie...doesn't really work.

 

Yes, I wasn't impressed with DA2's writing.

 

It seems some are though. I have no idea why, but if they enjoy it, I guess that's their type of story. I suppose SyFy get's it's audience for it's made for TV movies from somewhere.

[Volourn]

"So you have one leader inspired by a magic weapon that influences attitude...but the other leader...their decisions at the end of the game make NO sense really"

 

Makes sense if you pay attention to all the clues. Sure, there are things that probably can be twinked but worst ever? Did you play AP, SOZ, POR2, ES series, DTU? Now that is horrible writing. DA2 is BIO writing. It's no better or worse quality wise.

[Orogun01]

"So you have one leader inspired by a magic weapon that influences attitude...but the other leader...their decisions at the end of the game make NO sense really"

 

Makes sense if you pay attention to all the clues. Sure, there are things that probably can be twinked but worst ever? Did you play AP, SOZ, POR2, ES series, DTU? Now that is horrible writing. DA2 is BIO writing. It's no better or worse quality wise.

So BIO writing transcends regular classification?

[Volourn]

No, but BIo has been around for 10+ years. by now most of us have made up our minds wwether we like or dislike BIo's writing style so how we react to it is likely to be relatively the same 9not to say their writing is exactly the same every game); but the actual quality of said writing (as opposed to prefering one story over another) is basically the same.

 

Just like Obsidian has their style, and while the actual liking or dislking of it may vary the actual wriitng style is basically the same. ie. I hate AP writing but love MOTB writing but the style for the most part is the same.

[Pidesco]

AP and MOTB have the same writing style? How do you figure that?

[Jaesun]

A certain conversion with a certain god in Mask of the Betrayer was far better than the entire collective sum of all Bioware's writing since KotOR. Apparently the writer of this article failed to play it.

[Volourn]

"A certain conversion with a certain god in Mask of the Betrayer was far better than the entire collective sum of all Bioware's writing since KotOR."

 

No. But, it was awesome.

 

P.S. There's certain writings in DA2 just as good. And, some much, much worse...

[Pidesco]

A certain conversion with a certain god in Mask of the Betrayer was far better than the entire collective sum of all Bioware's writing since KotOR. Apparently the writer of this article failed to play it.

 

As much as I enjoyed Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, I still think the "since KotOR" bit in that sentence isn't really necessary. For my money, the best dialogues in Obsidian's games (Kreia, Myrkul or Marburg are examples) are better than any conversation Bioware has ever written. I can't say anything about DA2, though, as I haven't played it.

[Volourn]

Kreia, and marburg don't belong there. Kreia is just repeetive spam = force is evil must be destroyed, and Marburg lol.. that's from AP? L0LZ

 

Now.. Myrkul.. he's awesome. But, I'd argue plenty of wiritng in BIO games can match it. Some examples include the Arishok in DA2, the dream versions of Bhaal-Irenicus in BG2, the writing for Shepard's chaarcter in the ME series (espicially the bad ass version), the dwarven nobility quest line in DA1.

 

Youa re confusing pyshco long winded with babble 9Kreia) as deep or inetretsing when it can be so juvenile. Even the over the top of bad ass Shepard has better writing. Writing shouldn't have to come across as some disctionary or historil text to be of high quality. That's a myth. If your writing bores the audience it emans you failed at writing. Period.

[Jaesun]

Now.. Myrkul.. he's awesome. But, I'd argue plenty of writing in BIO games can match it. Some examples the writing for Shepard's chaarcter in the ME series (espicially the bad ass version), the dwarven nobility quest line in DA1.

 

A few Renegade option lines were better than the entire conversation with Myrkul? Sorry honey.

 

Don't know about the Dwarven origin story. I only played DA:O once (human noble) finished it, then threw the DVD into the trash.

[Pidesco]

If your writing bores the audience it emans you failed at writing. Period.

 

First, that really depends on what's the writer's target audience, and on what the writer is trying to achieve apart from being read. I'm sure Ulysses would be boring to the majority of the world's population. Does that mean James Joyce was a failed writer?

 

But in any case, and more importantly, are you equating popularity with quality?

[Volourn]

"A few Renegade option lines were better than the entire conversation with Myrkul? Sorry honey"

 

Did I say better. Can't you read, sweet cheeks?

 

 

"Don't know about the Dwarven origin story."

 

I didn't say anythuing about the origin story. I say the noble quest line. The choice between the two potentials was well written because the 'right' choice wasn't clear cut. That's an example of good writing.

 

 

"But in any case, and more importantly, are you equating popularity with quality?"

 

Are you equating not being popular with quality? ie. If something is popular it automatically makes it crap? That's just a same as populairty means good. Being good has nothing to with how popular soemthing is.

 

Hell, I've lots of things that aren't popular and hate things thing are popular. *shrug* Irrelevant.

 

 

 

"I'm sure Ulysses would be boring to the majority of the world's population. "

 

O RLY? One of the most popualr stories is disliked that much/ LMAO There's a reason why Ulysses' story is retold constantly - it's because people find it the opposite of boring. L0L

[greylord]

"So you have one leader inspired by a magic weapon that influences attitude...but the other leader...their decisions at the end of the game make NO sense really"

 

Makes sense if you pay attention to all the clues. Sure, there are things that probably can be twinked but worst ever? Did you play AP, SOZ, POR2, ES series, DTU? Now that is horrible writing. DA2 is BIO writing. It's no better or worse quality wise.

 

I don't believe I ever claimed any of those had stellar writing either. I did claim ME and ME2 had pretty good writing. Storyline in ME2 was a little weak, but the writing was still good.

 

Addendum: Also, still haven't figured out what people are referring to with the DTU series????

Edited March 20, 2011 by greylord

[Pidesco]

"But in any case, and more importantly, are you equating popularity with quality?"

 

Are you equating not being popular with quality? ie. If something is popular it automatically makes it crap? That's just a same as populairty means good. Being good has nothing to with how popular soemthing is.

 

Hell, I've lots of things that aren't popular and hate things thing are popular. *shrug* Irrelevant.

 

Nice straw man.

 

 

 

"I'm sure Ulysses would be boring to the majority of the world's population. "

 

O RLY? One of the most popualr stories is disliked that much/ LMAO There's a reason why Ulysses' story is retold constantly - it's because people find it the opposite of boring. L0L

 

Wot? Leopold's Bloom day in Dublin is retold constantly? Awesome.

 

 

 

 

@greylord: Descent to Undermountain

[Volourn]

"Nice straw man."

 

Not as nice as yours.

[greylord]

"But in any case, and more importantly, are you equating popularity with quality?"

 

Are you equating not being popular with quality? ie. If something is popular it automatically makes it crap? That's just a same as populairty means good. Being good has nothing to with how popular soemthing is.

 

Hell, I've lots of things that aren't popular and hate things thing are popular. *shrug* Irrelevant.

 

Nice straw man.

 

 

 

"I'm sure Ulysses would be boring to the majority of the world's population. "

 

O RLY? One of the most popualr stories is disliked that much/ LMAO There's a reason why Ulysses' story is retold constantly - it's because people find it the opposite of boring. L0L

 

Wot? Leopold's Bloom day in Dublin is retold constantly? Awesome.

 

 

 

 

@greylord: Descent to Undermountain

 

I don't think I ever played Descent to Undermountain. Sounds almost like dungeon Hack...in which case why would anyone ever compare the storyline or writing as it would be almost non-comparable/existable as any sort of good writing at all. Maybe it was a different type of game with a better story though...can't recall ever playing it.

 

I DID play the HECK out of Dungeon Hack when it was around however.