So it will be percent-based? I would prefer FNV's hard-cap skill checks but at least it's an improvement from Oblivion.

 

Not sure, they just said that there would be skill-based checks and compared it to FO3 IIRC.

But afair you don't spend skill points? Hope it's not "level up by doing" ...

But afair you don't spend skill points? Hope it's not "level up by doing" ...

 

It's the Elder Scrolls.. of course it's "level up by doing".

But afair you don't spend skill points? Hope it's not "level up by doing" ...

 

It's the Elder Scrolls.. of course it's "level up by doing".

 

I wonder how the "learn by doing" works with speech checks. Spamming lower req checks until higher ones become manageable?

I wonder how the "learn by doing" works with speech checks.

 

Yes, that's what I meaned. You have to click through dialogue to "level up" in the speech skill? Would be extremely stupid. Or maybe it's just pure random if you will win a speech check or not and based on how often you win, you level up, etc... In any case I find such a "level up speech by doing"-kind of system very bad.

As far as I could see, there are only dialog options and no other buttons anymore. Was that speech mini-game of any worth anyway? I never used it and I can't remember any situation where it would have been needed in some kind of way. For me it was just there for lulz and nothing more.

Some quests in Oblivion required that a character like you enough to give some sort of information to continue. That said you could always just bribe them 'till they liked you enough.

Learn-by-doing systems are one of those things that is great in concept, but usually sucks when actually implemented.

 

They are just way too hard to balance.

 

The whole "level up, get skill points, put them where you want to" system may be boring, but it's simple and it works.

 

However, in Skyrim it seems Bethesda is finally detaching the learn by doing aspect of skill improvement from stat increases at level up, since stats appear to now be static. WHich is a huge plus. Should make the lbd system much more tolerable.

Well, Chaosium system, the ancestor of learn-by-doing system, uses both approaches and skills can be developed through learn-by-doing and "training", where the players can develop the skills of their choices with the cost of imaginary training fee, or, in-game money, and game time. However, what Bethesda have been aiming to do seems to be optimized for video games. Means, to develop their characters, the players only need to do the game-play of their liking. They seem to have even managed to get some action game players into their games, which, itself, may not make traditional CRPG players happy but publishers stopped running away when they hear the word RPG. Of course, the obvious problem here is that there is no established speech game-play...

well this is a thought on one way speech learn by doing could work:

 

action gamer has no interest in dialogue, he quickly accepts the quest and moves on, doesn't click through every piece of information the quest giver had to offer, doesn't ask quest giver about his/her life etc etc. action gamer only gets a couple xp towards raising his speech skill. action gamer doesnt have high enough speech to access other options.

 

rpg gamer loves dialogue, he accepts the quest from quest giver, but only after exhausting every single line of dialogue the quest giver had. rpg gamer gains a bunch of xp towards raising his speech skill. rpg gamer having done this several times, has levelled up his speech skill quite a bit, and on completing the quest a line of dialogue is now available to him to get a better reward for the quest, because of how high his speech skill was.

^ Although a good suggestion it's a little easy to exploit.

Yes, well, except that dialouge is rarely any good. Bethesda possibly has the worst record of all, both when it comes to writing and voice acting. Personally I engage in dialouge when I get interested, when I don't I skip past it, even on the first playthrough, particularly Bethesda games.

yeah thats true, maybe i should have switched action gamer with sane person, and rpg gamer with bethesda fanboy

Yes, well, except that dialouge is rarely any good. Bethesda possibly has the worst record of all, both when it comes to writing and voice acting.

 

I've never felt the VO was bad in Beth games, it was just that they didn't have enough VAs.

Yes, well, except that dialouge is rarely any good. Bethesda possibly has the worst record of all, both when it comes to writing and voice acting.

 

I've never felt the VO was bad in Beth games, it was just that they didn't have enough VAs.

 

 

That's changing in Skyrim big time.

I don't even get where people are coming from when they say screenies like that are ugly. What the hell kind of standard are they using. The screenies look great.

 

Looks great, but they've some nasty clipping issues with weapons, should be easy enough to fix though...

I don't even get where people are coming from when they say screenies like that are ugly. What the hell kind of standard are they using. The screenies look great.

 

Looks great, but they've some nasty clipping issues with weapons, should be easy enough to fix though...

 

 

lol. I don't even notice clipping problems. It's just the way games are.

 

 

edit: I hear people complain about clipping a lot. I'm curious if its really a big deal to people or do they just complain because its the thing to do.

Edited July 27, 201114 yr by Slowtrain

im going with: thing to do.

lol. I don't even notice clipping problems. It's just the way games are.

 

 

edit: I hear people complain about clipping a lot. I'm curious if its really a big deal to people or do they just complain because its the thing to do.

I usually only notice on screenshots or in games with many cutscenes, like most recent BioWare games.

lol. I don't even notice clipping problems. It's just the way games are.

 

 

edit: I hear people complain about clipping a lot. I'm curious if its really a big deal to people or do they just complain because its the thing to do.

I usually only notice on screenshots or in games with many cutscenes, like most recent BioWare games.

 

 

Unless the clipping is really extreme, its pretty hard to notice while I'm playing. I mean, you kind of notice it when things like hair clip into the back but it's just part of the deal with games.

 

I can understand programmers paying close attention to it, but the typical gamer, not so much.

Skyrim drops level scaling?

I think it'll still scale, just the level of the area is set when you first visit it and won't level up later.

"There were definitely points in Oblivion where you rode the roller-coaster of pain, because the world levels up faster than you."

I kind of liked that, although I played on normal and it was still painful sometimes. But it did make you reconsider your tactics and think about how you could improve your stats and equipment to do better (damn willowisps!)

Skyrim drops level scaling?

 

 

It's still level scaling, just somewhat less annoying.

 

Also FO3 did have classic ES level-scaling in part: what were molerats at player level 3 were deathclaws at player level 20.

 

The big difference between FO3 and Oblivion was that in FO3 there were high-level enemies in some parts of the world even when the player was level 1.

The big difference between FO3 and Oblivion was that in FO3 there were high-level enemies in some parts of the world even when the player was level 1.

Same in Oblivion.

The big difference between FO3 and Oblivion was that in FO3 there were high-level enemies in some parts of the world even when the player was level 1.

Same in Oblivion.

Really? I never saw one, you seemed to be able to go anywhere. Edit: Unless you mean the guards, but those weren't exactly enemies unless you wanted them to be.

Edited July 28, 201114 yr by Wrath of Dagon

The big difference between FO3 and Oblivion was that in FO3 there were high-level enemies in some parts of the world even when the player was level 1.

Same in Oblivion.

 

 

Sort of, +10 player level isn't the same as a hardcoded level 20.

 

Oblivion was a lot more fun playing with OOO when you could be walkign down a road at level 2 and suddenly come face to face with a minotaur king. Ooops.