Deus Ex 3

[Lexx]

A little bit, yes. At least a bit as if everyone should agree with you that it sucks.

 

 

By the way, about stupid ai in DX: The game doesn't even have a *real* stealth system. If they would be a lot smarter, you couldn't really sneak through the locations. Therefore, I don't mind their simple ai.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Lexx

[sorophx]

At least a bit as if everyone should agree with you that it sucks.

not at all it just looks like DX is loved in spite of its shortcomings, which is somewhat amuzing

Edited June 18, 2011 by sorophx

[Lexx]

Why? It has flaws, but they don't make it a bad game. Besides, a lot other good games have flaws as well.

[Oner]

Yeah, we should focus on what sucks in a game and hate all of 'em! Down with the game industry!

Edited June 18, 2011 by Oner

[Raithe]

not at all it just looks like DX is loved in spite of its shortcomings, which is somewhat amuzing

 

To those of us that played it, there's an awful lot of good stuff that outweighed the flaws. We don't say it's a good game because it has no flaws, we say it's a good game because it was fun, it pulled you in, it was interesting, and at the time it was somewhat groundbreaking. The combination was greater then sum of its parts .

[Purkake]

Live with it.

 

At least a bit as if everyone should agree with you that it sucks.

not at all it just looks like DX is loved in spite of its shortcomings, which is somewhat amuzing

Why is it amusing? This is pretty much the place for people who love stuff in spite of its shortcomings, just look through Obsidian's catalog...

[sorophx]

Jensen looks exactly like my version of Thorton...

 

anyway, enough of this DX love fest thing, won't change my opinion, and I don't have any intention of changing anybody's mind either. let's just say DX hasn't aged very well.

 

it reminds me a lot of Citizen Kane. which is a terrible movie, but widely considered to be the best in the history of cinema

[Purkake]

DX hadn't aged well when it was released. I don't know why anyone would want to change your opinion, there's quite a difference in liking a game and understanding its importance and legacy.

 

Oh and I'm amazed at how not-consolified HR is.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Purkake

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, we should focus on what sucks in a game and hate all of 'em! Down with the game industry!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone was genuinely confused if that wasn't the real purpose of this forum, tbh.

[sorophx]

if that wasn't the real purpose of this forum, tbh.

it isn't?

Edited June 18, 2011 by sorophx

[Nepenthe]

if that wasn't the real purpose of this forum, tbh.

it isn't

Who's games would you not buy if the games industry went belly up?

[sorophx]

oh, missed a question mark there

 

we'll be back at square one in that case, only with a much bigger infrastructure compared to the 80s, I believe it will actually benefit the gamer/developer

Edited June 18, 2011 by sorophx

[Malcador]

Yeah, we should focus on what sucks in a game and hate all of 'em! Down with the game industry!

 

Well it's always good to be aware of what sucks in a game.

[Hassat Hunter]

I'm still wondering about the whole "outdated", "not aged well" part.

 

It's been thrown around so much, and nobody cared explaining exactly what all these pages?

 

But well, here I ask once again, cause I still don't understand what you guys mean when saying stuff like that...

[Hassat Hunter]

Or I let DX-fans speak who are far more verbatose than me;

The problem as I see it is that different people liked Deus Ex for different reasons.

I've spent years on the EM forums and some reasons I've come across why people like Deus ex are:

1. Deus Ex features stealth

2. Deus Ex features augmentations

3. Deus Ex offers multiple path/multiple solution gameplay

4. Deus Ex is an RPG

5. Deus Ex features a rich world (many characters, conversations, emails, newspapers &c.)

6. Deus Ex offers a lot of choice (in conversations, killing/non-lethal &c.)

7. Deus Ex is cyberpunk

8. The Deus Ex plot involves conspiracy theories

And there are probably some more reasons which I forgot right now. Many gamers like Deus Ex for several of these reasons. For instance, some people thought that Deus Ex 3 (back then it was still DX3) should be like Metal Gear Solid, because that game features stealth and conspiracies.

If you like DX because of 2, 3, 5, 6 and/or 8, you'll probably like DXHR. However, that doesn't mean DXHR is anything like DX. Like the Solid Sneak series != Deus Ex.

 

At its core, HR is a wholly different game from DX. It features some superficial resemblances, but it is different both in setting and gameplay.

The setting looks nothing like DX. I know some people defend it, saying that DX is still 25 years away in HR, but let's be honest - the infrastructure (things that typically don't disappear without a trace within 25 years) and the augs are very different from Deus Ex. Apart from that, there are some serious issues with factual continuity.

That doesn't have to be a problem. The developers could have set HR in a different setting. But they explicitly didn't do that (which is also somewhat of a disappointment to some people, as they know what will happen after HR). Then you have a problem, because the whole setting is just weird, as the player will compare it to DX.

 

As for the gameplay, I've played the leak a bit and I'm not immersed at all. DX was sometimes obvious in its multi-path approach, but HR is far, far worse. It's always the same.

Point A (a room or a door) - a few different paths - point B - a few different paths - point C - a few different paths - point D, level finished. DX progressed linearly from map to map, but within a map the player was often (but not always) completely free to choose his own path. The problem of the approach of HR is that it is so obvious and feels very unnatural. Besides that, the small spaces and lack of shadow stealth result in conveniently placed cover, which is even more obvious and makes me cry. Also, alternative paths all but scream "look at me, I'm an alternative path!".

But it's not just the level design. The core gameplay is completely different. It's not about giving the player a few tools and then let the player come up with some kind of solution (some of which weren't ever considered by the developers). This resulted in very creative approaches, and they actually worked.

HR doesn't work like that at all. It gives you an aug and it works the way it was designed to work and not in any other way. My arms are augmented, I can throw a box at an enemy and kill him but I can't punch him. I mean, wtf? Far worse is that (also due to the extremely linear design* of the maps) there just aren't any alternative solutions possible. Everything interacts as the developers wanted it to interact, not how the player wants it to interact. Boxes, chairs, anything that the developers did not design to be used can't be used. The player can't build a barricade made out of chairs and boxes and other random items if, for some reason, he wants to do so. Everything is really static, even more static than other modern games.** And this is supposed to be Deus Ex?

 

The fact that DX had conspiracy theories and featured different approaches and stealth weren't the reasons I liked it. I liked DX because it was a simulation RPG, and the gameplay elements it consists of (stealth, FPS, interaction, hacking &c.) were a direct result of DX being a simulation RPG. HR is not a simulation RPG, but a shooter with some additional gameplay elements. HR is not about players making choices develop their character, but rather about what kind of AWESOMENESS they want their player character to be capable of. That's why stealth isn't so much stealth as it is an 'awesome' non-lethal melee attack. HR as a game owes much of its gameplay to action games (like Batman: Arkham Asylum) and modern shooters, not to DX.

 

Apart from that, as half the title of HR consists of "Deus" and "Ex", it cannot but be compared to DX. The games industry has aged 10 years since DX was released, and yet, in some ways, DX is still a far better game. It features way more interaction, a way better script and more freedom. I can't say anything about the plot of HR yet, but considering the fact that AFAIK the same person is responsible for the script (dialogues, events) and the plot (conspiracy) I don't think it's going to be anywhere near DX, even though both the script and the plot of DX were far from perfect.

 

If we compare DX then and HR now, HR doesn't come close to DX in any way. When DX was released it was very innovative, it had a great storyline, great AI (mind you, I'm talking about the year 2000 here), featured a mind boggling amount of interaction and had above average graphics.***

HR now features:

-sub-par graphics (bad animations, environments are completely static (what year is this? seriously), crappy geometry (many circles have very few polygons), shadows seem to be entirely absent),

-crappy AI (enemies can't climb ladders and keep shooting at doors if you're standing behind it (but in HR every single object is completely bullet proof), and the AI handles friendly fire extremely poorly),

-terrible script (it's awfully clich

[Purkake]

It was using a somewhat outdated engine with quite a bit of default assets, the gunplay and the AI were also bad by the standards of the time.

 

These days it hurts the eyes to look at some of those models and animations, not to mention that voice acting.

 

That said, it's still pretty playable if you've played it before. Probably not a very good time to play it for the first time.

[sorophx]

typical BS

meh, his head is so far up his butt, he can't see the obvious.

[Rosbjerg]

I don't know about that - he raises some valid points.. I don't agree, but I appreciate that he took the time to sit down and write something coherent rather than "Iz gonna SUK! Lolz!"

[Raithe]

DE:HR - How it was Made

One of the latest interview type things..

[Orogun01]

I don't know about that - he raises some valid points.. I don't agree, but I appreciate that he took the time to sit down and write something coherent rather than "Iz gonna SUK! Lolz!"

I don't mean to be cross, but what valid points?

[Slowtrain]

Well, most of them we've heard before in some form or another, such as it's not DX becuase you can't build a fort ot of garbage cans.

 

*shrug*

 

That may be a perfectly valid point for some. Personally I wasn't so much into building things with trashcans and potted plants in DX.

 

But, if the HR world is extremely limited in interactivity, it coud be an issue for some. I won't know until I play it how I feel about it.

[Purkake]

Going by what I've seen of the leaked preview build not only can you build a fort out of garbage cans, you are required to to so in order to reach certain areas more stealthily.

 

Generally it did seem somewhat less interactable, though.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Purkake

[Orogun01]

Going by what I've seen of the leaked preview build not only can you build a fort out of garbage cans, you are required to to so in order to reach certain areas more stealthily.

 

Generally it did seem somewhat less interactable, though.

I guess that what the reviewer meant to say it's that objects in DX were interactive whereas in HR the interactive objects are often the same ones. The boxes look the same and it's easy to figure out the paths because of it.

 

Edit: but if he wants to build a fort there its always minecraft.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Orogun01

[Purkake]

Umm, I seem to recall those stupid default Unreal Engine metal crates everywhere.

[Orogun01]

Umm, I seem to recall those stupid default Unreal Engine metal crates everywhere.

Yeah I think the reviewer had a bad case of the nostalgia googles and was picking at threads.

 

@Raithe: nice article, the art direction in this game it's sublime and it really shows. Wish people would notice.