http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/2...iplomacy-crisis

 

Just click the link. It doesn't matter who you are, it will be worth reading.

 

E.g.:

 

They also reveal [...] why North Korea is soon likely to collapse

They also reveal [...] why North Korea is soon likely to collapse

 

 

I thought this was common knowledge.

Wow, are we going to find out about information that the US will brake the principles of democracy, human rights and freedom when it comes to achieving its geopolitical and economic interests? Just shocking! Mary Poppins will be heartbroken.

 

Sarcasm aside, some articles will surely be an interesting read.

I hope there's a bit more to come than the startling and earth shaking revelation that the US spies on friends as well as enemies (everyone does it), Prince Andrew is a bit of a knob (OK, that was a bit surprising, I was expecting it to be another great boon to international relations courtesy of Phil the Greek), Silvio B is a touch dodgy (no doubt Italian readers fell off their chairs at the mere thought) and that radical Sunni Saudi Arabia doesn't like radical Shi'ite Iran.

 

Grauniad, I expected better. C-, improvement needed.

Phil the Greek

I've always liked the "Duke of Hazard" as well.

This newspaper, at the bottom, lists coverage from all the newspapers these leaks were released to, if you don't like reading the Guardian:

 

http://www.news.com.au/world/wikileaks-set...i-1225962494119

 

One of the more disturbing revelations is the shocking but obvious (and reasonably widely known) case of the Chinese government's highest echelons being intimately involved with and ordering cyber attacks and infiltration on Western companies and governments from at least 2002 through to the present day.

Yeah, that's been widely 'known' for a long time. They also use a wide variety of industrial espionage, quasi legal 'pressure' (basically extortion- see BHP) and market manipulations (pretty much started with wool, they worked out that if they kept a large stockpile and were the biggest user then they could set the price at whatever they wanted simply by not buying, digging into their stockpiles and crashing the market whenever they wanted. They could then cheaply replenish their stockpile once the market had crashed...) to get as much of an advantage as possible- but that ain't particularly new info.

 

It's all a bit boring really, though I guess there may be a bit more salacious detail in the memos themselves. I didn't see a single thing that I didn't already know outright or strongly suspect except the story of Ali Khamenei having leukaemia.

This is jaw dropping. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactiv...ables-wikileaks

 

I know the whole idea was just to smear the USA and try to destroy our relations with allies, but look at the international dirty laundry that's been hung out to dry. No wonder Hillary was frantically giving heads-up to half the world. Even the one-line description of contents show that half the Arab countries on the planet have been begging the US to bomb Iran, and there was a secret EU plot to boycott Ahmadinejad's inaugaration.

Don't they have a suspect already, obviously an inside guy and a career diplomat. Would be interesting to know why he was interested in smearing the US and destroying its relations with its allies.

 

Anyway the way I heard it it was not intercepts, but a 'deep throat' insider.

This is jaw dropping. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactiv...ables-wikileaks

 

I know the whole idea was just to smear the USA and try to destroy our relations with allies, but look at the international dirty laundry that's been hung out to dry. No wonder Hillary was frantically giving heads-up to half the world. Even the one-line description of contents show that half the Arab countries on the planet have been begging the US to bomb Iran, and there was a secret EU plot to boycott Ahmadinejad's inaugaration.

 

I'm sure this will make Iran want to really create a nuclear deterrant now.

This is jaw dropping. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactiv...ables-wikileaks

 

I know the whole idea was just to smear the USA and try to destroy our relations with allies, but look at the international dirty laundry that's been hung out to dry. No wonder Hillary was frantically giving heads-up to half the world. Even the one-line description of contents show that half the Arab countries on the planet have been begging the US to bomb Iran, and there was a secret EU plot to boycott Ahmadinejad's inaugaration.

 

The intention isn't to smear the US; it's just that the US is the country they find it easiest to get leaks from. The US isn't the only country they leak about, and government politics itself isn't the only thing that gets leaked by WikiLeaks.

 

Moving on from that point, I'm personally finding the leaks to be far more damaging to the idiots running China, Russia, Italy, North Korea, Iran, etc rather than to the US.

 

Ironically, it's looking like the US itself is the only thing standing between Iran and a crater - because that's what Iran would be if Israel, Saudi Arabia, and heck most of Europe and the Mid-East had their way.

Don't they have a suspect already, obviously an inside guy and a career diplomat. Would be interesting to know why he was interested in smearing the US and destroying its relations with its allies.

 

Anyway the way I heard it it was not intercepts, but a 'deep throat' insider.

 

3 million Americans had access to this information. They found the guy who leaked most (all?) of it because he was bragging about it, but he didn't have to try particularly hard to do it, and it's not secret enough to hide from these 3 million people who have access to it.

 

His reasons for leaking the info seem to be basic transparency issues and some genuine concerns with US foreign policy. For now I remain neutral on whether this is a good or bad thing, but I relish the opportunity to get some insights into how brutal regimes operate, as well as how our own Western governments operate behind our backs.

Once again, Krez:

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

2. Yet again, there is little of any substance in the leaks which is new. In fact nothing new that I've seen.

3. Yet again the leaks damage Americas ability to function as a government by militating against frank and sensible internal discussion.

 

All Wikileaks is is a vehicle for undermining whichever country it points at. WHERE ARE THE CHINESE WIKILEAKS?

Once again, Krez:

 

I already said I'm neutral on the matter. I'm not arguing for Wikileaks's cause, so you do not need to try and convince me.

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

 

I don't think you can hold up the bureaucratic or electoral processes of the US as ideal. American citizens certainly do want more transparency and it is not being delivered by their government. Whether Wikileaks is a viable solution to that I don't know.

 

2. Yet again, there is little of any substance in the leaks which is new. In fact nothing new that I've seen.

 

Read more of them. There's a bunch of stuff that has never been reported by news agencies.

 

3. Yet again the leaks damage Americas ability to function as a government by militating against frank and sensible internal discussion.

 

Perhaps. What's done is done, and we'll soon see if that claim bears fruit.

 

All Wikileaks is is a vehicle for undermining whichever country it points at. WHERE ARE THE CHINESE WIKILEAKS?

 

Agreed, and I would like to see this. Some Chinese citizens recently created their own Wikileaks clone for this purpose. However I have no problem with undermining a country where it is in the wrong. And America has been at times, as evidenced by the many of the leaks themselves. Whether or not these leaks do more harm than good remains to be seen. I feel they released too much information sensitive to Western peace efforts and did not redact nearly enough.

Once again, Krez:

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

2. Yet again, there is little of any substance in the leaks which is new. In fact nothing new that I've seen.

3. Yet again the leaks damage Americas ability to function as a government by militating against frank and sensible internal discussion.

 

All Wikileaks is is a vehicle for undermining whichever country it points at. WHERE ARE THE CHINESE WIKILEAKS?

They have been known to compromise the safety of involved parties/sources. This I do not support, otherwise it's all good. 'Information wants to be free' and all that.

 

I don't think this really damages the reputation of the US anyway. I'm afraid those other countries trusted the US exactly this much to begin with.

Edited November 29, 201015 yr by Gorgon

I wonder if there is anything in there that is stepping on Putins or Mossads toes. We've seen in the past what happens to people who cross their path

Considering they describe Russia as a country run by the mafia, and directly implicate Putin and his cronies in this, as well as describing cases of bribery between Berlusconi and Putin... yeah, I'd say it steps on his toes.

Whats the point, there would be another site like it the next day. Notice that there were no attacks on Wikileaks from official US sources in response either, they know it too.

Once again, Krez:

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

You keep bringing this up. If there hadn't been whistleblowers, nobody would have heard of My Lai, either. As somebody who has worked enforcing this kind of stuff, I have 0 faith in them working, even in countries and organisations roughly 1 % the size of U.S.

For democracy to really work, the public needs to make informed decisions when they vote. A vital part of that is that people needs to know what's really going on, not just what the goverment chooses to let them know "for their own good", "for national security" or any of the other usual reasons for witholding information. In that regard, wikileaks is a very important tool for democracy.

Wikileaks, kicking in open doors since 2006.

I know the whole idea was just to smear the USA...

Really? Feel free to back it up with links/facts or stop spreading this BS.

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

2. Yet again, there is little of any substance in the leaks which is new. In fact nothing new that I've seen.

3. Yet again the leaks damage Americas ability to function as a government by militating against frank and sensible internal discussion.

 

All Wikileaks is is a vehicle for undermining whichever country it points at. WHERE ARE THE CHINESE WIKILEAKS?

1. If this was true, then Wikileaks wouldn't exist, merely because there would be no need for it.

 

2. If nothing is new, why would anyone care about it?

 

3. It damages nothing of the sort. Perhaps it will teach government figures to address each other more respectfully?

Wikileaks, kicking in open doors since 2006.

Hardly, considering the US embassy in Norway started their damage control vis-a-vis Norwegian newspapers a week ago.

 

J.

Once again, Krez:

 

1. The USA has a democratically mandated and democratically administered process for being held accountable. Wikileaks runs contrary to the laws of that democracy. If the people actually wanted wikileaks they could vote for it. They haven't and they won't.

2. Yet again, there is little of any substance in the leaks which is new. In fact nothing new that I've seen.

3. Yet again the leaks damage Americas ability to function as a government by militating against frank and sensible internal discussion.

 

All Wikileaks is is a vehicle for undermining whichever country it points at. WHERE ARE THE CHINESE WIKILEAKS?

 

1) What a load of hogwash.. if you think for a second that the USA is a democracy, you're blind, deaf and dumb.

2) Rite.. honey traps, damage control, media smearing, Peter King defining Wikileaks as a terrorist organization.. all of this because there is no

substance in the leaks?..

3) YOU JUST SAID THERE WAS LITTLE OF ANY SUBSTANCE!

Frank and sensible discussion? US diplomats treat foreign leaders as idiots.. 'bout time we get to hear about it don't you think?

 

Idiots are caught with their pants down. Time to put out the fire and eat humble pie I say..

 

 

GO WIKI!

 

J.

I'm wondering how the release of diplomatic cables is exposing evil acts or something. Is interesting and all, but largely not seeing anything particularly noble about this. Shocking that diplomats dont say nice things about others, really.

Edited November 29, 201015 yr by Malcador