Dragon Age 2

[Maria Caliban]

They are reusing her because the person who wrote her in DA wanted her to be a companion in DA2.

 

Seriously? That's as idiotic as it gets. "I think she's wonderful" etc etc.\

 

A writer liking a character is the reason characters make it into books, movies, and games. It's quite obvious that Daivid Gaider adores Morrigan and Alistiar, Mary loved Sten and Wynne, and Sheryl thought Leliana would be a great BFF.

 

Have you ever listened to Stephene Meyer's talk about Edward of Twilight fame? She gushes about how sexy she thinks he is, and that gushing made her a multi-millionare.

 

'This character is wonderful and I want to tell their story' is not idiotic. It's the best way to write a character.

[WorstUsernameEver]

They are reusing her because the person who wrote her in DA wanted her to be a companion in DA2.

 

Seriously? That's as idiotic as it gets. "I think she's wonderful" etc etc.\

 

A writer liking a character is the reason characters make it into books, movies, and games. It's quite obvious that Daivid Gaider adores Morrigan and Alistiar, Mary loved Sten and Wynne, and Sheryl thought Leliana would be a great BFF.

 

Have you ever listened to Stephene Meyer's talk about Edward of Twilight fame? She gushes about how sexy she thinks he is, and that gushing made her a multi-millionare.

 

'This character is wonderful and I want to tell their story' is not idiotic. It's the best way to write a character.

 

They're not writing a story but a game. It's a collective effort. The comparison of a video game writer to a book writer it's a flawed one. That's not even opening that can of worm that is whether Stephenie Meyer is a writer in the first place.

[Maria Caliban]

They're not writing a story but a game. It's a collective effort. The comparison of a video game writer to a book writer it's a flawed one. That's not even opening that can of worm that is whether Stephenie Meyer is a writer in the first place.

 

A game with characters. An NPC in a game can be treated the same as a character in a novel. And how does it being a collective effort making writing characters you think are neat as companions idiotic?

 

I mentioned Twilight because the opposite of 'write characters you think are wonderful' would be 'write character you aren't interested in.' Presumably the only reason to write characters you're not interested in is a cynical view on how to get material gratification, but in that, writers who think the characters are wonderful still get the benefit.

[Monte Carlo]

I like Kirkwall, it looks like a 1970's housing estate but in a twisted fantasy way.

 

The rest of it is meh, I think I'm going to get into FPS games this winter.

[Maria Caliban]

I like Kirkwall, it looks like a 1970's housing estate but in a twisted fantasy way.

 

Good guess! It is based on a style of architecture popular in the 70s.

[Monte Carlo]

Wow, I never guessed that growing up in South London in the 70's would give me such an eye for architecture.

[Nepenthe]

They are reusing her because the person who wrote her in DA wanted her to be a companion in DA2.

 

Seriously? That's as idiotic as it gets. "I think she's wonderful" etc etc.\

 

Nice screenies, and despite how anime it's gotten I'm starting to think that they have a point in that it does give the game a stronger look.

 

 

I would bet money that Isabella was in the plans for the first game but it ended up being trimmed and cut down, so a lot of her character work was already laid out and they liked what they had and how it could fit in with the new story.

 

She sure seemed set up that way...

 

Also agree with the obviousnes of writer preference driving story. And again facepalming at non-writers lack of grasp of it. I'm surprised Tigranes, who's had to do academic writing, doesn't know better.

[WorstUsernameEver]

You guys realize that Bioware is a company that makes video games right?

The writers are not writing the stories they want to write in the first place, so it's not like that objection makes any sense. A writer pointing his feet on the ground and saying 'I want to write this character again' is pretty much like a girl inserting an original character in a fanfiction. It's jarring.

[HoonDing]

The writers are not writing the stories they want to write in the first place

So not David Gaider, the lead writer, but rather EA tells them what to write?

[WorstUsernameEver]

So not David Gaider, the lead writer, but rather EA tells them what to write?

 

More like they're clearly writing power fantasies based on the wants of a large section of the RPG crowd. There's nothing inherently bad with that, in fact, most RPG developers, Obsidian included, do that. But I seriously doubt they're so enthusiastic about rewriting the same type of tale the millionth time.

[Nepenthe]

So not David Gaider, the lead writer, but rather EA tells them what to write?

 

More like they're clearly writing power fantasies based on the wants of a large section of the RPG crowd. There's nothing inherently bad with that, in fact, most RPG developers, Obsidian included, do that. But I seriously doubt they're so enthusiastic about rewriting the same type of tale the millionth time.

I dunno, it seems to have worked just fine for, say, John Grisham and Tom Clancy.

 

Still not seeing any reason why writing for games should be different.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Still not seeing any reason why writing for games should be different.

 

Don't worry, you're in good company, the vast majority of video games writers don't get it either. Still, the difference between narrating a story and making the player interact with it should be pretty clear. It is to me, at least.

[Bendu]

DA2 will get a Cerberus System + larger DLC

[Monte Carlo]

Look, to me it's pretty clear - writing for videogames must be very challenging.

 

It's like the three bears' porridge, it needs to be in the middle - interesting enough to retain your interest in the core gameplay but not so dense that it clouds it out, or makes you feel like you are simply a tamagotchi in the writer's personal narrative.

 

And, for me, this is where Bioware is failing because of it's overly narrative style. I know I'm going to get flamed but the gameplay should drive the story, not vice versa. Dave Gaider is writing novels with games bolted on, I want the opposite.

 

I liked DA2 despite the soppy, self-obsessed, overly-detailed NPCs that were forced on you. I also accept that this makes me a minority compared to Bio's fanbase who love all that. This is why I'm not buying anymore of their games, which is cool but I hope one day they'll make a game that's about gameplay, not a narrative screensaver with console-lite combat betwixt chapters.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I liked DA2 despite the soppy, self-obsessed, overly-detailed NPCs that were forced on you. I also accept that this makes me a minority compared to Bio's fanbase who love all that. This is why I'm not buying anymore of their games, which is cool but I hope one day they'll make a game that's about gameplay, not a narrative screensaver with console-lite combat betwixt chapters.

 

You've already played it?

[Tigranes]

It's not a question of whether a writer is proud of his/her work and so on and so forth. It's a very simple issue of - does a single writer in a multi-writer project (that involves more than writing) saying "I like her and she should have a big role in the second game" mean that it is a good decision? No, not if other factors indicate that the character wasn't that special.

 

What you're saying is confusing it and getting it back to front - even in a book, a writer loving his/her character is fine, but if that blinds him/her and gets in the way of judging the role the character should play then no. So it's not really a criterion here.

[Monte Carlo]

My bad, i meant Dragon Age, obviously.

[Nepenthe]

Still not seeing any reason why writing for games should be different.

 

Don't worry, you're in good company, the vast majority of video games writers don't get it either. Still, the difference between narrating a story and making the player interact with it should be pretty clear. It is to me, at least.

 

... I assume this handbag is yours?

[alanschu]

You guys realize that Bioware is a company that makes video games right?

The writers are not writing the stories they want to write in the first place, so it's not like that objection makes any sense. A writer pointing his feet on the ground and saying 'I want to write this character again' is pretty much like a girl inserting an original character in a fanfiction. It's jarring.

 

It's presumptuous to assume that the writers don't enjoy aspects of what they write. Trust me, they do. Which is good IMO.

 

 

It's a very simple issue of - does a single writer in a multi-writer project (that involves more than writing) saying "I like her and she should have a big role in the second game" mean that it is a good decision? No, not if other factors indicate that the character wasn't that special.

 

You're looking at this with way too narrow of a view and making an assumption that Isabella's inclusion is purely based upon one person going "I want this character in" and essentially having an implied hissy fit if she doesn't get her way, without the rest of the team discussing and agreeing upon Isabella's inclusion in the game.

 

I don't experience content very much, but the general air from many of the playtesters is that Isabella is a very fun character to interact with and in the early going I'd say she's a front runner for my favourite NPC in the game. Though there are some that I don't know much about so I'll reserve my judgment.

[Gorth]

Isabella is a very fun character to interact with

That's what my character thought too that night at The Pearl

[WorstUsernameEver]

I don't know why you translate what I said in 'the writers don't enjoy their work'. It's certainly not what I've written.

[alanschu]

Let me rephrase it then: Your statement: "The writers are not writing the stories they want to write in the first place" is incorrect.

 

Writers constantly writing stories they don't want to write are not writers that enjoy their work, which is why I phrased it the way that I did.

 

 

The entire team works on the story and overarching plot, but I would disagree that the writers don't write the stuff that they want to write. Yes there are concessions in places due to restrictions from the tools used and the art assets available, but I wouldn't say that the people on our team don't find ways to include stuff that they want to write about.

[Malcador]

You're looking at this with way too narrow of a view and making an assumption that Isabella's inclusion is purely based upon one person going "I want this character in" and essentially having an implied hissy fit if she doesn't get her way, without the rest of the team discussing and agreeing upon Isabella's inclusion in the game.

 

 

Well, if the person's high up enough I can see that being the case. But the treatment her character got from other NPCs in DA did make think they were going to do more with her than they actually did.

[Volourn]

"No, not if other factors indicate that the character wasn't that special.

 

What you're saying is confusing it and getting it back to front - even in a book, a writer loving his/her character is fine, but if that blinds him/her and gets in the way of judging the role the character should play then no. So it's not really a criterion here."

 

But, you are acting blind because youa re assuming because you eprsonally hate the characters everyone else does to. Even in this thread on this loud anti BIO baord, there are people telling you flat out they enjoyed the character. You don't think BIO hasn't figured out which npcs were popular in DA and used that to help determine which one(s) might be included in DA2?

 

You need tot ake the blinders off, and realzie that BIO isn't making this game for you (or me); but for many people.

[Tale]

You guys realize that Bioware is a company that makes video games right?

The writers are not writing the stories they want to write in the first place, so it's not like that objection makes any sense. A writer pointing his feet on the ground and saying 'I want to write this character again' is pretty much like a girl inserting an original character in a fanfiction. It's jarring.

Writing characters isn't exclusively an exercise in "write this character." It's often the larger task to write for the character.

 

A character's mere existence is not the breadth of character writing. How does the character react and interact with new things? How do these things change the character? How do these things help express facts about the character? In the case of Isabella, there simply was no way to feasibly do this in DAO, given the minor participation the character had. A larger role would give her more interaction/reaction opportunities.

 

Add that to the desire of writers not simply to have the character on paper, but to express those ideas to others, and you might see why someone would 'write this character again.'

 

Edit: To reduce snark.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Tale