Purkake Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Truth... bitter pill... etc... Go on, tell us how you really feel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slinky Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the fountain of happiness, the man who brings joy everywhere he goes, the one and only.... TheHarlequin!!! So I am not spunking in my pants over this MMO and simply posting somewhat bitter pill news from a *gasp* news site makes me a big meanie? I'd suggest its you with the vested interest in the game that clearly has the issue with only wanting sunshine and roses to be discussed. Sorry to disappoint. *shrugs* its only a game. Didn't mean that, I'm not interested in the game. I meant your magical talent to take offence from the strangest things and reply slightly too aggressively to them. You have been doing that for a while if you haven't noticed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the fountain of happiness, the man who brings joy everywhere he goes, the one and only.... TheHarlequin!!! So I am not spunking in my pants over this MMO and simply posting somewhat bitter pill news from a *gasp* news site makes me a big meanie? I'd suggest its you with the vested interest in the game that clearly has the issue with only wanting sunshine and roses to be discussed. Sorry to disappoint. *shrugs* its only a game. One that you claimed to not care at all about. But just doing your civic duty and letting the rest of us know, right? DeathDealer = Win. You're a very sensitive person Mr. Harlequin. Edited October 13, 2010 by Thorton_AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 So you're dismissing this person, who has been confirmed works/worked within EA, and everything he states, and instead opt to rely on your own opinions on how you think it is instead? Uh OK. No one has dismissed him. He worked on the Mythic side though, so I'm not going to take his word on a completely different project as gospel. The other day I was playing an MMO and I helped the Fellowship of the Ring prepare to leave Rivendell. Then I went through Moria and cleaned up the giant mess the Fellowship had made when they ran through there. Then I killed the Watcher in the swamp. All of these things opened up new areas for me to adventure in, it felt epic, it felt like an advancing storyline, and it all happened in an MMORPG. LotR Online is one of the best story driven RPG's I have ever played, and it is simply an added bonus that I get to play it with a bunch of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the fountain of happiness, the man who brings joy everywhere he goes, the one and only.... TheHarlequin!!! So I am not spunking in my pants over this MMO and simply posting somewhat bitter pill news from a *gasp* news site makes me a big meanie? I'd suggest its you with the vested interest in the game that clearly has the issue with only wanting sunshine and roses to be discussed. Sorry to disappoint. *shrugs* its only a game. One that you claimed to not care at all about. But just doing your civic duty and letting the rest of us know, right? DeathDealer = Win. You're a very sensitive person Mr. Harlequin. It's still somewhat "news" worthy material to post. The reactions you guys have against him are pretty funny, heh. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slinky Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 It's still somewhat "news" worthy material to post. The reactions you guys have against him are pretty funny, heh. Eh? I not sure where you saw us criticising the news itself? But glad to provide some entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 The "not caring" dig Thorton made. It would be funny to see TOR flop, and then watch the effect on Bioware and EA afterwards, however unlikely that will be. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 It's still somewhat "news" worthy material to post. The reactions you guys have against him are pretty funny, heh. That's fine. But Harlequin's posting style doesn't belie his intentions. If this wasn't BioWare's MMO I'm skeptical he'd have ever bothered. For someone that doesn't seem to care, he has a funny way of showing it. But the, I always enjoy the people that say they couldn't care less about something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Lay off the personal attacks, I believe none of us are certified psychiatrists and have no business secondguessing what other people's deep secret desires are. Actually, if you are a certified psychiatrist, yargh! Never been a slightest bit interested in TOR and thought it was weird to try it in the first place, just hope Bio don't go bankrupt over this or somethign. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) Adding to this is the fact that everyone in an mmo has to be "equal," to some extent. The player cannot be a big hero, because then you'd have a million big heroes running around, which dilutes the importance of your character's actions. The best you can hope for in MMO narrative is for each player to feel like they're playing a small part in a large event (which is how it was done in WoW, with a few exceptions made for hardcore raiders who did get to be the big hero at times). Utter bs. Yes, you can have a million heroes running around. It's your personal context. It's called instances and phasing. They've been around for a while now. You can single handedly save the world/galaxy/whatever. Then they go into their instance and they do it, too. This isn't new. Even WoW had countless instances and quests that aren't raids. All important events were not exclusively in raids. You can handle a narrative outside of raids in an MMO. In fact, it's been done. The conflict you think exists is an imagined one. Maybe this revolves around your idea that MMOs are about being a part of a large universe of other players. Increasingly, many of them treat the universe as just the meeting ground. The other players influence on your narrative is unnecessary. The logical extreme of phasing is, if you think about it, a single player game. Player importance and number of players in a given game world are inversely related - the more important any given player is, the fewer players you can logically have in the same game world. Once again, BioWare wants to make a single player RPG that they can charge a monthly fee for. This has been clear to anyone who listened to the original dev interviews. When the universe is "just a meeting ground," the universe is just a lame excuse to charge a monthly fee. So suddenly an employee mentions that it's going to be awful, and then everyone notices it looks awful? Not to gloat, but it doesn't take a genius to predict this game is going to fail. Beating WoW when it already has roughly 6 years of extra content added to it? Voicing every NPC in the game while ignoring the fact that all they'll say "Go kill 10 space rats"? Not to mention the game looks like a technical mess, with awful graphics and art direction everywhere. Most of us noticed that it would be awful long before then. You're right about the art direction, although art direction was never one BioWare's strengths (ME1 was a nice exception, but they decided to **** all over ME1's fantastic art direction in ME2 anyway). Edited October 13, 2010 by Oblarg "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) LotR Online is one of the best story driven RPG's I have ever played, and it is simply an added bonus that I get to play it with a bunch of other people. It's also made by people with a great deal of experience in and intimate knowledge of what works and what doesn't, MMO wise. LOTRO was designed specifically to be somewhat "limited"* as compared to other offerings but to make sure that what it did it did very well. It's been successful precisely because it did not promise the world on a platter but delivered what it claimed, unlike the other roughly contemporaneous examples like Conan and WH which had far more grandiose claims but far less actual achievement and capacity to deliver. Frankly, everything we've seen about TOR suggests they aren't going for the rather more limited but very well executed approach but for the blunderbuss/ shotgun try to hit every target at once and promise the stars approach, ie comparisons to AoC/ WH seem far more apropos. *To clarify, I'm certainly not saying that LOTRO is bad or limited mechanics/ gameplay wise, just that their approach- given the sort of thing which might have been expected in an 'epic' setting like Middle Earth- was rather more circumspect and scaled than might have been expected from other MMO companies. And more successful because of it. Edited October 13, 2010 by Zoraptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 The logical extreme of phasing is, if you think about it, a single player game. Player importance and number of players in a given game world are inversely related - the more important any given player is, the fewer players you can logically have in the same game world. Most people don This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 They have been pushing the whole "each class has it's own story, plus their own perception of the grand galactic story" and one of the issues for a lot of the hard-core mmo fans is that Bio keep talking about the rerolling new characters of different classes to explore the stories from different angles..rather then talk about endgame playing.... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 The logical extreme of phasing is, if you think about it, a single player game. Player importance and number of players in a given game world are inversely related - the more important any given player is, the fewer players you can logically have in the same game world. Most people don "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomao Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 And I corrected myself on that point. Wow.. not allowed to be wrong? So you have never spoken in honest error before? Must be nice. At least I post links so ppl can look for themselves... That aside your speaking to me as if trying to convince me... I couldn't care less if it crushes wow or fails completely or anything in between. But others do. Yes, sure, I made many mistakes off course. But "Errare humanum est sed perseverare est diabolicum". I would not even replied to you if you at least presented the news with some kind of doubts about the source. Instead it sounded to me like you were presenting that anonymous blog entry as a fact, just like the third company thing, happy for the imminent Bioware end. Sorry in advance if I'm wrong. I do not want to convince you: I never played MMOs and will never play a monthly fee based game. TOR lies in the same category sadly. I could try LOTRO when it goes F2P in Europe but that's all. Btw, my opinion is that TOR won't come even close to WoW success (just like DA2 will never reach Diablo III success) but it will build a pretty solid player base and become profitable over reasonable time because it does not try to be just another WoW, but something different that appeals to different kind of players. To all the people who dismiss the game simply because you do not believe that people are willing to pay for a single player game with a monthly fee only for its social aspects: imho, you are understimating the allure of vanity and the need of a "friendly" community for the very people TOR is made for. Some people will love facebook in a Star Wars universe/movie where you are the Luke Skywalker of the situation. Not many as the Wow player base off course, but enough to pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarlequin Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Adding to this is the fact that everyone in an mmo has to be "equal," to some extent. The player cannot be a big hero, because then you'd have a million big heroes running around, which dilutes the importance of your character's actions. The best you can hope for in MMO narrative is for each player to feel like they're playing a small part in a large event (which is how it was done in WoW, with a few exceptions made for hardcore raiders who did get to be the big hero at times). Utter bs. Yes, you can have a million heroes running around. It's your personal context. Yes you can and it is, I agree. Thats AFAIK not in dispute. AoC, WoW and many others do that as you eluded too. However it really takes away from the strength of a CRPG when your not 'special'. You just one of a mass of world-saving-hero's running around. And until the magic pill is found to change that gameplay mechanic it's always going to seem like a world full of hero's and your lost as one of a mass of such. Now from a strictly MMO point of view that fine. non-RPers are ok with that clearly as its just about level gaining, OOC socializing and l33t l00t. But RPGers/CRPGers as is biowares main audience may be quite disappointed with that type of game. World of Darkness News http://www.wodnews.net --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Never been a slightest bit interested in TOR and thought it was weird to try it in the first place, just hope Bio don't go bankrupt over this or somethign. ME3 and DA2 will easily recoup any losses Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Though I will say I'm morbidly curious to see how BioWare goes about trying to pull off story driven content with an MMO. like Square did in FFXI? they basically added a single-player campaign to their MMO, but with tasks designed for a full party. the bosses, the player interaction - overall it was the best MMO experience I ever had. too bad they had to ruin it. point is: it can be done if done right, but of course you can't build a whole game around it Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 What a friendly thread! I plan on picking up the game and playing it to see if I like it or not. I suspect that like many MMOs, you get a free trial period. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 LotR Online is one of the best story driven RPG's I have ever played, and it is simply an added bonus that I get to play it with a bunch of other people. It's also made by people with a great deal of experience in and intimate knowledge of what works and what doesn't, MMO wise. LOTRO was designed specifically to be somewhat "limited"* as compared to other offerings but to make sure that what it did it did very well. It's been successful precisely because it did not promise the world on a platter but delivered what it claimed, unlike the other roughly contemporaneous examples like Conan and WH which had far more grandiose claims but far less actual achievement and capacity to deliver. Frankly, everything we've seen about TOR suggests they aren't going for the rather more limited but very well executed approach but for the blunderbuss/ shotgun try to hit every target at once and promise the stars approach, ie comparisons to AoC/ WH seem far more apropos. *To clarify, I'm certainly not saying that LOTRO is bad or limited mechanics/ gameplay wise, just that their approach- given the sort of thing which might have been expected in an 'epic' setting like Middle Earth- was rather more circumspect and scaled than might have been expected from other MMO companies. And more successful because of it. I agree with everything you said. I am going to give Bioware a chance to pull it off though, because they've never really done me wrong with a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 What a friendly thread! The Bioware defense squad is out in force! Well, OK, mostly one guy. Nothing wrong with paying subscription for a single player game, so long as enough new content is being provided in return. The quality of that content is in doubt though. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 What a friendly thread! The Bioware defense squad is out in force! Well, OK, mostly one guy. Nothing wrong with paying subscription for a single player game, so long as enough new content is being provided in return. The quality of that content is in doubt though. Your monthly subscription fee in an MMO does not mainly go towards new content. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 The Bioware defense squad is out in force! Ah yes, the notorious and frightening BDS. Be afraid. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 "But RPGers/CRPGers as is biowares main audience may be quite disappointed with that type of game. " But.. but.. i thoguht BIO doesn't cater to RPGers anymore? Right? So.. how are they BIO's 'main audience' again? You can't have it both ways. Besides, KOTOR OL is likely more focused on drawinjg in SW fans thatw ere dissapointed in the last SW MMO than BIO fans. Heck, it's not even being made by then 'real' BIO. *shrug* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 What a friendly thread! The Bioware defense squad is out in force! Well, OK, mostly one guy. Nothing wrong with paying subscription for a single player game, so long as enough new content is being provided in return. The quality of that content is in doubt though. Your monthly subscription fee in an MMO does not mainly go towards new content. Yeah, it goes towards creating a giant swimming pool filled with money for John Riccitiello to wade in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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