Fallout: New Vegas

[Enoch]

I had always felt that lockpicking was kind of out-of-place as a skill in the Fallout games, anyway. Loot access is a powerful element of an RPG, which makes it very difficult to balance a skill that governs it. My preference from back when we were suggesting new rules for Van Buren was to make locked doors and containers much less common, eliminate lockpicking as a skill, let boots/crowbars/shotguns/explosives open what they logically should be able to open, and otherwise govern basic locks with Repair and electronic locks with Science.

 

 

I'm totally on board with not having lockpicking as a skill, and if gameplay mechanics require lockpicking of all characters, then having a "skill" for it is pretty bad game design.

 

That being said, ideally, in a crpg loot acquisition and infiltration through lockpicking is a route that is only really accessible, especially at higher levels, to stealth type characters. For a combat character, they don't need to be able to pick locks since they can loot the piles of dead enemies they leave behind, nor do they have to worry about sneaking through the back door. Combat characters just go right through the front door with the weapon of their choice. And a diplomatic character likewise has their means of proceeding through the game.

 

So yes, loot access is a powerful element of a crpg, but all skills, ideally, generate their own ways of acquiring loot.

That's assuming, of course, that "stealth-type characters" are well supported. If, as in FO3 and many other games, the primary role of stealth isn't so much enemy avoidance as it is a way to get some easy crit-kills (the primarily murder-based XP system pretty much confirms that this is the case), the 'combat l00t' argument washes out.

 

And I probably was exaggerating when I said that FO3's mechanics 'required' lockpicking in all characters. What you actually get out of lockpick-only accessable areas and containers is kind of underwhelming, and many of them can be accessed by either Lockpicking or Hacking.

 

But the psychological impact of their existence on the player is probably more significant than the in-game effects. In a game whose biggest selling point is finding neat stuff/encounters/etc. tucked away in corners of a huge open gameworld, finding a door that can only be opened with a particular skill at a particular level is probably more troubling than it should be. Gamers know what they're giving up when they tank their Melee or Repair skills. If they tank their Lockpicking, they're giving up the Unknown, which is much much harder to do. Furthermore, people who most enjoy this kind of game are often motivated strongly by exploratory curiousity and a somewhat-compulsive completionist drive that takes particular offense to a game marking an area "off limits" because they made their character a particular way.

[Tale]

I've not yet played an RPG where stealth wasn't largely just a method to make killing easier. They'd have to actually make stealth characters have a harder time at killing to prevent them from also getting loot on corpses, in addition to lockpicking.

[pmp10]

I've not yet played an RPG where stealth wasn't largely just a method to make killing easier. They'd have to actually make stealth characters have a harder time at killing to prevent them from also getting loot on corpses, in addition to lockpicking.

Bloodlines had a good focus on stealth.

[Tale]

But then I just used it to get melee instant kills. *katana through the back*

Edited September 16, 2010 by Tale

[pmp10]

And thus missed the extra skill points awarded for not being seen.

[Tale]

Dead people have no sight.

 

Wait, what? You get points for not killing people? Nobody told me this!

[HoonDing]

Dead people have no sight.

 

Wait, what? You get points for not killing people? Nobody told me this!

Will it in fact be possible to finish the game without combat?

 

[speech 95%]Lulz I win the gaem.

[Enoch]

Dead people have no sight.

 

Wait, what? You get points for not killing people? Nobody told me this!

In Bloodlines, there were certain missions where you got extra whatever-they-called-ability-points for doing so stealthily.

 

I don't think we yet know whether and how stealthy approaches will be rewarded in FO3.

[Tale]

Stealthy doesn't necessarilly mean "no kill." You can kill and remain stealthy. Hence my question.

[Oner]

You had to ghost Fat Larrys quest completely for the extra XP. The Elizabeth Dane too IIRC.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Gamespot Dev Diary #1 : The Story

 

I am looking for a guy in a checkered suit. Have you seen him?

[sorophx]

gotta love the way Chris Avellone always has his eyebrows doing the ^^

[HoonDing]

Cool promotional video, really. The Bethguys somewhat lack the charisma to pull it off that way.

[Labadal]

Every single time I see videos of this I go crazy. I want this game now.

[Monte Carlo]

[big confession]I never worked out the lockpicking minigame in FO3. I hated it. With a fiery passion. Why can't I just dump points into lock pick.... and pick locks.[/big confession]

 

And how about an options tab that says "Lockpick Lite" or "Lockpick Minigame"?

[vault_overseer]

You can just dump points into lockpick and force the lock. Pretty much the same thing.

[WorstUsernameEver]

[big confession]I never worked out the lockpicking minigame in FO3. I hated it. With a fiery passion. Why can't I just dump points into lock pick.... and pick locks.[/big confession]

 

And how about an options tab that says "Lockpick Lite" or "Lockpick Minigame"?

 

If you buy the PC version I'm sure we'll see mods with normal skill checks in a couple of days.

[Oner]

[big confession]I never worked out the lockpicking minigame in FO3. I hated it. With a fiery passion. Why can't I just dump points into lock pick.... and pick locks.[/big confession]

 

And how about an options tab that says "Lockpick Lite" or "Lockpick Minigame"?

 

If you buy the PC version I'm sure we'll see mods with normal skill checks in a couple of days.

Amen to that.

[Undecaf]

You can just dump points into lockpick and force the lock. Pretty much the same thing.

 

But why would you risk it if guaranteed success (minigame) is just beside you? I always felt it kinda odd that the minigame was so easy on every level and yet there was a "force" option with percentual chance. Who would use it, but ones that already want to gimp themselves? It felt like knowingly evading success. Imo.

[TheHarlequin]

Military experiments weren't a stretch by any means, and I wasn't implying so, just noting that the concept wasn't present in the first two games.

 

As was already said that's not true... it was hinted at, fairly strongly toward the end, in the first game and outright said in the second.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Military experiments weren't a stretch by any means, and I wasn't implying so, just noting that the concept wasn't present in the first two games.

 

As was already said that's not true... it was hinted at, fairly strongly toward the end, in the first game and outright said in the second.

 

? The Vaults in the first two games were social experiments, not military experiments. In fact, the military experiments were conducted in a totally separate location, the Mariposa base.

[TheHarlequin]

Military experiments weren't a stretch by any means, and I wasn't implying so, just noting that the concept wasn't present in the first two games.

 

As was already said that's not true... it was hinted at, fairly strongly toward the end, in the first game and outright said in the second.

 

? The Vaults in the first two games were social experiments, not military experiments. In fact, the military experiments were conducted in a totally separate location, the Mariposa base.

 

Apples and oranges. The military can't conduct social experiments? Since when? You are comparing a TYPE of experiment and the conductor of said experiment. One is not exclusive of the other.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Apples and oranges. The military can't conduct social experiments? Since when? You are comparing a TYPE of experiment and the conductor of said experiment. One is not exclusive of the other.

 

Ehrm.. no. Vault 87 had nothing to do with social experimentation, they were simply using the vault dwellers there as test subjects for the modified FEV strain. Nothing to do with social experiments, and there were social experiments in Fallout 3. I am not even saying that it's a contradiction to the old lore, it's really just an addition, or a new spin, take it as you will, just noting that it's something Bethesda added.

[HoonDing]

What was the point of those social experiments after the bombs had already dropped? Kinda useless to keep on with it if there's no one outside to report to anyway.

 

Like Vault 92 where everyone went mad due to the infrasound experiment.

[WorstUsernameEver]

What was the point of those social experiments after the bombs had already dropped? Kinda useless to keep on with it if there's no one outside to report to anyway.

 

It's implied that the overseers reported to the Enclave through a non-specified communication system. As for their utility, it was data to be used to plan for the Enclave's space ship trip to colonize another planet.