THQ: Buying used games is "cheating".

[kirottu]

Link to kotaku article.

 

I know we have talked about these kind of game developer/publisher comments earlier, but I just can

[Amentep]

Basically the game industry sees killing the used market as a way of raising their profits. Which was, I believe, my argument when EA did the same thing.

 

It is funny, as you mention, that apparently every other industry (except the food industry) has a thriving second hand market without problems.

[Oner]

(except the food industry)

[Amentep]

Dare I ask?

[Oner]

 

Made from leftovers.

 

Not always mind you.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Oner

[Hurlshort]

It seems as if he is responding to a question about online features. His argument is that if you buy second-hand, don't expect to get the same online features. That seems completely reasonable.

 

His use of the term cheating is silly, but it sounds like this is purposefully being blown out of context.

[Malcador]

Out of context, how exactly ?

[Calax]

to a degree it is "cheating" in that when you purchase a used game you're buying it only from gamestop or where ever rather than giving some money to the publisher for their work. Games are different from movies in particular in that there is no window where people can only see it in the theatres, it comes out as a dvd and then you've got a problem with having that controlled market where the money goes to the publisher not existing.

 

Honestly, if gamestop were forced to pay a royalty to the publishers for used sales there would be MUUUUUCH higher profits.

[Purkake]

The Gamestop used game business is pretty horrible as well.

 

Publishers do really need to make up their minds and stop half-assing it. Either grow a pair and cut retail out of the loop or live with the second hand market. They can't continue to push the retailers forever, if they keep this up, they will both end up crashing and burning with the budgets being what they are.

[Tale]

The Gamestop used game business is pretty horrible as well.

 

Publishers do really need to make up their minds and stop half-assing it. Either grow a pair and cut retail out of the loop or live with the second hand market. They can't continue to push the retailers forever, if they keep this up, they will both end up crashing and burning with the budgets being what they are.

I think maybe it's a time for a shift more towards the so-called casual market. Good casual games do one thing well, replay. Modern bigname games treat themselves like movies, a beginning and an end. But don't have the benefit of theatrical release. And are charging 3x the amount for home release.

 

I think it's well researched phenomenon that most people who play modern big budget games don't even beat them. So, I'm actually kind of hoping we see more smaller budget games at cheaper prices. Though I imagine most gamers would be pretty upset with such a shift. I don't think I would, though. Games seem too padded as it is.

 

The relevance of all that is with the potentially smaller budgets are lower prices. With lower prices are more attractive first hand sales.

 

I think I get far better budget out of buying a Sam and Max season for $35 than I get buying the latest Halo for $60. Especially since I don't care for Halo's multiplayer option.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Tale

[Raithe]

That's something I've never really understood well. In over 10 years of gaming there are only a handful of games I haven't finished once I've picked them up and installed them.

 

If i've paid money for a game, i plan to finish it and enjoy the story of it.. to leave it unfinished just seems.. wrong. Unless there's something about it that just completely kills my soul. .. (see Oblivion for that..)

[Purkake]

The replay thing is somewhat mitigated by multiplayer modes, but adding one to every game hasn't really helped the situation.

 

I'm all for smaller budget digitally distributed games.

 

@Raithe: At some point time will be more valuable than money, so people don't want to finish games they don't enjoy.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Purkake

[Wrath of Dagon]

The difference with the movie business is DVD's are cheap enough most people don't bother with used DVD's. With games the price is much higher and the volume is much lower, thus second hand sales hurt a lot more. Basically a developer sees a lot of people enjoying his labor without him seeing a penny in return. Of course it feels like cheating.

[Purkake]

The difference with the movie business is DVD's are cheap enough most people don't bother with used DVD's. With games the price is much higher and the volume is much lower, thus second hand sales hurt a lot more. Basically a developer sees a lot of people enjoying his labor without him seeing a penny in return. Of course it feels like cheating.

The developers have already been paid, it's the publishers who are complaining.

[Hurlshort]

Used movies are also being sold typically by rental companies like Blockbuster. Blockbuster buys a ton of new movies every year, and they offset some of that cost by selling them when they are no longer popular rentals.

 

The question here is what does Gamestop do with all the extra games they order every year?

[Purkake]

Bargain bins or deals where the publisher buys back the extra.

[Tale]

I was under the impression that Gamestop goes to extraordinary lengths to not buy extras. That's the entire point of pre-order system they push. And why some games end up underperforming (Okami).

[Hurlshort]

I was under the impression that Gamestop goes to extraordinary lengths to not buy extras. That's the entire point of pre-order system they push. And why some games end up underperforming (Okami).

 

Yeah, and that seems like a more messed up thing than the second-hand market. Maybe publishers should put the screws to Gamestop a bit. It really annoys me that I can go into Gamestop on a day that a game is released, and find zero copies available unless I pre-ordered it. They are a business, they are supposed to keep a stock of in demand items. There is no other industry that makes you go in and promise to buy a product before it is released so that you can get it when it is.

 

I honestly try and go to Best Buy whenever possible for that reason, and the fact that Gamestop has abandoned the PC market.

[Thorton_AP]

The difference with the movie business is DVD's are cheap enough most people don't bother with used DVD's. With games the price is much higher and the volume is much lower, thus second hand sales hurt a lot more. Basically a developer sees a lot of people enjoying his labor without him seeing a penny in return. Of course it feels like cheating.

The developers have already been paid, it's the publishers who are complaining.

 

If the developers have some sort of royalty arrangement it would still affect them. I don't know if that is an issue though.

[Calax]

Used movies are also being sold typically by rental companies like Blockbuster. Blockbuster buys a ton of new movies every year, and they offset some of that cost by selling them when they are no longer popular rentals.

 

The question here is what does Gamestop do with all the extra games they order every year?

Order amounts for an initial release are based on the preorders that each store has. If the store has a game that comes out with 0 pre-orders, you may get 2 total for a store, where as some thing like starcraft or Modern Warfare will have a couple skillion sent to each store.

 

If a game under performs for Gamestop then it sits on the shelf until the gameday sales or something similar where it's price is slashed in half to just get it out of the store.

[Tale]

The difference with the movie business is DVD's are cheap enough most people don't bother with used DVD's. With games the price is much higher and the volume is much lower, thus second hand sales hurt a lot more. Basically a developer sees a lot of people enjoying his labor without him seeing a penny in return. Of course it feels like cheating.

The developers have already been paid, it's the publishers who are complaining.

 

If the developers have some sort of royalty arrangement it would still affect them. I don't know if that is an issue though.

In terms of effect on developers, I would think that a game that doesn't make enough money for the publishers won't see a sequel (where have I heard of that happening lately?) and developers of such games might not attract many publishers for their games.

[Hurlshort]

[Enoch]

That's something I've never really understood well. In over 10 years of gaming there are only a handful of games I haven't finished once I've picked them up and installed them.

 

If i've paid money for a game, i plan to finish it and enjoy the story of it.. to leave it unfinished just seems.. wrong. Unless there's something about it that just completely kills my soul. .. (see Oblivion for that..)

I am a serial non-finisher of games. To me, the greater cost of a game is the time I sink into it, not the cash I fork out to buy it. So if the game gets to a point where the gameplay isn't fun and there aren't enough other incentives (story, character, stat/loot progression, atmosphere, art/sound/music design, etc.) to keep me interested, the game ceases to be worth my time and I stop playing. To me, it seems wrong to put that extra 5 hours into a game that I'm not enjoying, just so that I can say I've finished it. Suffering through things that aren't fun just to get them over with is work, not recreation.

 

I was under the impression that Gamestop goes to extraordinary lengths to not buy extras. That's the entire point of pre-order system they push. And why some games end up underperforming (Okami).

 

Yeah, and that seems like a more messed up thing than the second-hand market. Maybe publishers should put the screws to Gamestop a bit. It really annoys me that I can go into Gamestop on a day that a game is released, and find zero copies available unless I pre-ordered it. They are a business, they are supposed to keep a stock of in demand items. There is no other industry that makes you go in and promise to buy a product before it is released so that you can get it when it is.

 

I honestly try and go to Best Buy whenever possible for that reason, and the fact that Gamestop has abandoned the PC market.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I've switched to Amazon (or Steam). (Well, that and the fact that home delivery eliminates the need to fight traffic on Rockville Pike.)

[Raithe]

That's something I've never really understood well. In over 10 years of gaming there are only a handful of games I haven't finished once I've picked them up and installed them.

 

If i've paid money for a game, i plan to finish it and enjoy the story of it.. to leave it unfinished just seems.. wrong. Unless there's something about it that just completely kills my soul. .. (see Oblivion for that..)

I am a serial non-finisher of games. To me, the greater cost of a game is the time I sink into it, not the cash I fork out to buy it. So if the game gets to a point where the gameplay isn't fun and there aren't enough other incentives (story, character, stat/loot progression, atmosphere, art/sound/music design, etc.) to keep me interested, the game ceases to be worth my time and I stop playing. To me, it seems wrong to put that extra 5 hours into a game that I'm not enjoying, just so that I can say I've finished it. Suffering through things that aren't fun just to get them over with is work, not recreation.

 

Maybe I'm just good at picking up games that I enjoy then.. If a game's if a game has a storyline I like, I might have to force myself to deal with bad gameplay..but if its so bad that I really hate it I won't finish it. But still, that's only a handful of games that I've picked up that I've found that to be the case. I wouldn't finish a game I found myself really disliking just to complete it... But I don't tend to randomly pick up games ..

[Flouride]

I only buy from Gamestop when I got 2 games to change into 1 new one which is not that often. In Finland it's sooo much cheaper to either order from play.com or thehut.com or from few Finnish stores that sell their games without 23% taxes from

Edited August 25, 2010 by Flouride