AP has sold 700k units?

[Elven6]

The same release in English,

 

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/rel...730_e_final.pdf

 

They're most likely shipped to retailers but the publishers still get money from it IIRC, they only lose money if the retailers decide to send them back if they aren't able to sell stock and want some sort of a return. Not sure how often this happens though.

 

700k isn't bad but I'm sure SEGA/Obsidian had bigger figures in mind. Keep in mind, these don't include the July sales figures either from stores like Steam which had the game going for pretty cheap. I think most of the sales were coming from Europe anyway. The game probably could have sold better had the issues been sorted, they had about six months or so since the delay 09-10 and didn't even work on the game at all which seems like an odd move.

 

SEGA Sammy actually had a profitable quarter during their last quarter which was the first in four years or so, it was due mostly to the Pachinko machines and such.

[Wombat]

Honestly, I don't know what Sega expected from Alpha Protocol. Even if they just wanted to pick up their money quickly, the delay didn't make sense. Likewise, if Sega genuinely expected high sales for games on the format of Alpha Protocol/Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines/Deus Ex in the current game market*, then, they have terribly wrong business sense (which is not surprising if the leaded doc is genuine, though). Really, it puzzles me how the decision-making about Alpha Protocol went this wrong. At least, it doesn't seem to be regarded as commercially successful. In fact, according to the teaser trailer, at least, Square Enix doesn't seem to want to mention Alpha Protocol. In any case, blaming any group involved in it won't make things better especially when we are left in the dark. Hopefully, Obsidian have learned some lessons and experiences.

 

* I'm not saying these games were bad but it would be tough to sell them in the current market. Definitely, they should have known better than that.

[Libertarian]

I repeat -- why the hell take another stab at The Conduit and not Alpha Protocol?

 

There's no market on the Wii for such a game. The first was a failure. Sega's other attempts at "hardcore" games on the Wii, i.e. MadWorld and House of the Dead: Overkill, were failures.

 

Sega is backing a horse that no longer has legs to move. Hell, it never had legs to begin with.

 

At least Alpha Protocol has the potential, but Sega is still getting behind a platform and releasing games on it that have no potential whatsoever. Even with solid reviews, they'll still bomb at retail.

 

The Dreamcast's demise was Sega's exit from the hardware business -- it won't be long until they exit the software business, either.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Libertarian

[pmp10]

I repeat -- why the hell take another stab at The Conduit and not Alpha Protocol?

 

There's no market on the Wii for such a game. The first was a failure. Sega's other attempts at "hardcore" games on the Wii, i.e. MadWorld and House of the Dead: Overkill, were failures.

 

Sega is backing a horse that no longer has legs to move. Hell, it never had legs to begin with.

 

At least Alpha Protocol has the potential, but Sega is still getting behind a platform and releasing games on it that have no potential whatsoever. Even with solid reviews, they'll still bomb at retail.

 

The Dreamcast's demise was Sega's exit from the hardware business -- it won't be long until they exit the software business, either.

I seriously doubt development cost are comparable between a wii shooter build on a in-house developed framework and a console arpg made by licensing ut3 engine.

[Laverre]

@Wombat

 

It can be great business sense. Remember Baldurs Gate? It came out during a period where everyone was sure RPG's are dead and see what happened, the problem is if your game is less stellar + gets a rather unfair beating from some critics, you not only fail but fail quite expensively.

[Volourn]

It wasn't an unfair beating. It was fair even if you disagree.

[C2B]

@Wombat

 

It can be great business sense. Remember Baldurs Gate? It came out during a period where everyone was sure RPG's are dead and see what happened, the problem is if your game is less stellar + gets a rather unfair beating from some critics, you not only fail but fail quite expensively.

 

Uhhhhh, do you really want to go there? Look at how the first Baldur's Gate is viewed NOW. There are frequently players that recommend to SKIP the first one if someone wants to play BG.

 

And there are several 90' rpgs that are viewed higher than it.

 

Also Volourn there are people that have other opinions than you and yours is not universal.

Edited July 31, 2010 by C2B

[Volourn]

Right back at you.

[C2B]

Right back at you.

 

True. And?

[Hassat Hunter]

There are also the NPDs and common sense.

Didn't they not include PC sales and are based on guesses and stuff? Or include Europe. Stuff like that I read on that forum itself already. Got common sense though.

Also, if it IS units sold to retailers, it wouldn't include DD sales, which could make the total easily get above 700K then, since it's a very popular form of distribution here in RPG-loving Europe.

Oh, and the bit where SEGA says that it sold less than expected.

Yeah, and I have heard EA say that about games that sold 1.5 mil units too. Sometimes expectations are... unreal.

Obviously you are free to ignore all that.

Obviously...

It wasn't an unfair beating. It was fair even if you disagree.

Says Mr. "Anyone who critisies ME2 is wrong, it has no flaws". R00FLES.

[Libertarian]

I repeat -- why the hell take another stab at The Conduit and not Alpha Protocol?

 

There's no market on the Wii for such a game. The first was a failure. Sega's other attempts at "hardcore" games on the Wii, i.e. MadWorld and House of the Dead: Overkill, were failures.

 

Sega is backing a horse that no longer has legs to move. Hell, it never had legs to begin with.

 

At least Alpha Protocol has the potential, but Sega is still getting behind a platform and releasing games on it that have no potential whatsoever. Even with solid reviews, they'll still bomb at retail.

 

The Dreamcast's demise was Sega's exit from the hardware business -- it won't be long until they exit the software business, either.

I seriously doubt development cost are comparable between a wii shooter build on a in-house developed framework and a console arpg made by licensing ut3 engine.

 

Wasted money is wasted money. Why back something that has continued to fail sales wise over and over again?

[Volourn]

"Says Mr. "Anyone who critisies ME2 is wrong, it has no flaws". R00FLES."

 

I must be wrong then since I criticized ME2 a lot.. and, got attacked here of all places ofr it. LMAO So, why do you lie?

 

 

"Yeah, and I have heard EA say that about games that sold 1.5 mil units too. Sometimes expectations are... unreal."

 

Maybe, maybe not. But, how many times do you hear a publisher come flat out just a month after release and loudly proclaim their game is a financial failure and because of that reason there won't be a sequel? Very rarely.

 

And, I doubt Sega had 'unreal epecations'. They probably took into account how much money they poured into the game. Obviously, they feel the money they put into AP isn't worth it.

 

Heck, JE sold a mil+, yet it's the only one of the 3 original BIO IPs that didn't get a sequel. And, JE likely cost a lot less than ME and DA to make so it liekly didn't need to sell as many.

 

Bottom line is no matter how many units actually sold - be it 700k, 2mil, 1 copy, it didn't sell enough for sega to feel a sequel to be worthwhile depsite them claiming to like the 'concept' (which is such a lame cop out since I also like the 'concept' of AP).

 

 

As for the silly Europe loving stuff, it's nonense, AP was not that popualr in Europe depsite the higher than average reviews. It 's 1st week it was only 12th in Britian (and worse in other European countries), and by the end of the 3rd week it was completely off the charts. The game failed financially. It's okay to like a game and admit that. Afterall, number of copies sold doesn't always equal quality. Afterall, I loathe the ES series but I'd be the last one to claim they were a financial failure.

[Hassat Hunter]

I must be wrong then since I criticized ME2 a lot.. and, got attacked here of all places ofr it. LMAO So, why do you lie?

That must be ancient history then, since I don't hear a lot of it anymore.

Maybe, maybe not. But, how many times do you hear a publisher come flat out just a month after release and loudly proclaim their game is a financial failure and because of that reason there won't be a sequel? Very rarely.

Yeah, but I also cannot recall the last time the gaming "press" went on a crusade against a game like this. Usually it's nothing but praise for even the weakest of games like Oblivion.

Bottom line is no matter how many units actually sold - be it 700k, 2mil, 1 copy, it didn't sell enough for sega to feel a sequel to be worthwhile depsite them claiming to like the 'concept' (which is such a lame cop out since I also like the 'concept' of AP).

That's true. But that, once again, maybe due to unrealistic expectations. Like BioWare of Bethesda sales figure expectations.

As for the silly Europe loving stuff, it's nonense, AP was not that popualr in Europe depsite the higher than average reviews. It 's 1st week it was only 12th in Britian (and worse in other European countries), and by the end of the 3rd week it was completely off the charts. The game failed financially. It's okay to like a game and admit that. Afterall, number of copies sold doesn't always equal quality. Afterall, I loathe the ES series but I'd be the last one to claim they were a financial failure.

Eeeh, I was more thinking about Germany, Europe's biggest market for adventures and RPG's. Also sale figures says little because, as I stated before DD is a lot more mainstream here in Europe than in the US and store sales likely don't even make 20% of the sales. If you look at them it's like the PC is dying. If so, why do so many DD-distributors like GOG, Steam, DD, D2D, GamersGate etc. rise up?

As such, 700K shipped units might even be better than 700K SOLD games (incl. DD sales).

 

Sale figures might be a good indication for consoles, but once again, the PC is more popular than consoles in Europe.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Hassat Hunter

[Volourn]

Look, I'm sure if the game sold a bunch of downloads, Sega would be pro making a sequel. Afterall, if the game sold say 200k in normal copies but managed to sell 1mil with DD, Sega wouldn't have been so negative about sales since they have access to DD numbers - espiciallym since DD is likely cheaper for them since there's no packaging or shipping involved. btw, According to that link in this thread, Germany is amongst the European countries where AP simpkly did not sell well - espicially not as well some claim.

[Purkake]

Look, I'm sure if the game sold a bunch of downloads, Sega would be pro making a sequel. Afterall, if the game sold say 200k in normal copies but managed to sell 1mil with DD, Sega wouldn't have been so negative about sales since they have access to DD numbers - espiciallym since DD is likely cheaper for them since there's no packaging or shipping involved. btw, According to that link in this thread, Germany is amongst the European countries where AP simpkly did not sell well - espicially not as well some claim.

Depending on the publisher-retailer contract, SEGA might have to buy the unsold copies back, which isn't particularly good on the bottom line.

[Niten_Ryu]

700k units shipped to retailers. AP hit bargain bin few weeks after release and was even on Steams holiday sales. Still, it's sad that game industry is in such shape as it is. Generation ago 700k shipped would have been ok sales and sequel probably in development (also good way to fix problems of the first game or in general make improvements).

[Purkake]

700k units shipped to retailers. AP hit bargain bin few weeks after release and was even on Steams holiday sales. Still, it's sad that game industry is in such shape as it is. Generation ago 700k shipped would have been ok sales and sequel probably in development (also good way to fix problems of the first game or in general make improvements).

You'll need a bigger budget to have prettier graphics.

[Wombat]

@Wombat

 

It can be great business sense. Remember Baldurs Gate? It came out during a period where everyone was sure RPG's are dead and see what happened, the problem is if your game is less stellar + gets a rather unfair beating from some critics, you not only fail but fail quite expensively.

I find your analogy is rather opportunistic than analytical. Baldur's Gate introduced real time tactical combat to CRPG, which made CRPG more accessible than it was. Rather, IMO, what Baldur's Gate did is something similar to what Eidos Montreal is doing with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Of course, they may fail in any way but, at least, judging from what I read so far, they sound more convincing than Alpha Protocol team was to my ears: It sounds like a plan although I was more skeptic when I heard the team is not composed of the original one.

 

Uhhhhh, do you really want to go there? Look at how the first Baldur's Gate is viewed NOW. There are frequently players that recommend to SKIP the first one if someone wants to play BG.

Now is different from "then." In the context of this thread, releasing Deus Ex then and Alpha Protocol now is totally different.

 

You can defend Alpha Protocol at Obsidian boards but can you support Obsidian by yourself, I mean, with your own money? I saw BIS/Troika go down but I couldn't do anything with that. I don't know much about game development but I guess I'd better write something critical in an attempt to save them from themselves. IMO, they need to modestly learn from bigger RPG makers in terms of technical side while keeping their originality which bigger RPG makers fail to deliver. IMHO, Alpha Protocol's game-play doesn't seem to be original but the contextual role-playing/choice and consequences are not something other companies can do. Then, shouldn't they focus on this feature and try to deliver it in a more refined form?

 

Some other people may have better idea for Obsidian but that's what I can think of at the moment.

[Volourn]

"You'll need a bigger budget to have prettier graphics."

 

And, to support those 100+ employees.

 

 

"the contextual role-playing/choice and consequences are not something other companies can do"

 

Nonsense. Plenty of games do this. It's not new, original, or special to Obsidian.

[Wombat]

"the contextual role-playing/choice and consequences are not something other companies can do"

 

Nonsense. Plenty of games do this.

At superficial level, yes.

[Volourn]

Something they share in common with AP, then. And, no, not all games do that.

[Flouride]

Something they share in common with AP, then. And, no, not all games do that.

 

Since we don't have enough Volourn dislikes AP -threads. Let's turn this into one as well!

Clearly every thread that is about AP sales needs you posting your fair and balanced opinion about the game, after all you did play the game for 3 hours and read some spoilers!

[Morgoth]

700k shipped for a ME wannabe is kinda disappointing. Plus the game was almost 4 years in development so I'm sure Sega lost a lot of money. They won't work with Obsidian again so quickly.

[Jorian Drake]

Christ, that's not that bad, is it? I understand the no-sequel diktat but 700k in one month isn't a catastrophe, it'll easily pass a million soon enough.

I agree, many people were scared away by the terrible reviews, and I know personally quite a few people who just recently started to play it or finished it, and enjoy it a lot. Sales will go up with time.

[C2B]

Christ, that's not that bad, is it? I understand the no-sequel diktat but 700k in one month isn't a catastrophe, it'll easily pass a million soon enough.

I agree, many people were scared away by the terrible reviews, and I know personally quite a few people who just recently started to play it or finished it, and enjoy it a lot. Sales will go up with time.

 

Well, its bound to become a cult game. So, yeah. Of course it will probably need several years before it makes a difference. AP lost it first chance.

Edited August 1, 2010 by C2B