WTF? No Infinite Ammo in AP?

[lord of flies]

So, I've heard that you've removed the infinite ammo feature! What is this bull****? You realized (rightly, I might add) that limited ammo stocks are just **** moves to force the player to use other guns, but then you go and turn around to remove it? Why? Did a bunch of fat nerds who can't adapt to gameplay innovations complain? "Hurghh, I don't run out of ammo? Is this a magical gun from wonderland? I can't ****ing suspend my disbelief for five seconds!"

 

My blood is boiling as bad as it would be if you had said "**** the proletariat" in one of your interviews, and I think we both know that's pretty bad.

 

Unironically yours,

lord of flies

[Trenitay]

Where do you live? Mars? What took you so long to get this information?

[Gorth]

It was only declassified and published by Правда yesterday?

[GreasyDogMeat]

No infinite ammo? Really? Sweet!

 

Then again... I think you are just taunting cool people who think infinite ammo is lame. Damn you, you taunting socialist wacko!

 

I have a feeling AP is going to rock infinite ammo or not, but here is some food for thought:

Mass Effect 1 = infinite ammo. Good game.

Mass Effect 2 = limited ammo. Fan-friggin-tastic game! Best game Bio has made since Baldur's Gate!

 

I rest my case.

[Syraxis]

So, I've heard that you've removed the infinite ammo feature! What is this bull****? You realized (rightly, I might add) that limited ammo stocks are just **** moves to force the player to use other guns, but then you go and turn around to remove it? Why? Did a bunch of fat nerds who can't adapt to gameplay innovations complain? "Hurghh, I don't run out of ammo? Is this a magical gun from wonderland? I can't ****ing suspend my disbelief for five seconds!"

 

My blood is boiling as bad as it would be if you had said "**** the proletariat" in one of your interviews, and I think we both know that's pretty bad.

 

Unironically yours,

lord of flies

 

 

[Meshugger]

Quality thread. I approve

[lord of flies]

No infinite ammo? Really? Sweet!

 

Then again... I think you are just taunting cool people who think infinite ammo is lame. Damn you, you taunting socialist wacko!

What is the problem with infinite ammo for your normal weapons?

I have a feeling AP is going to rock infinite ammo or not, but here is some food for thought:

Mass Effect 1 = infinite ammo. Good game.

Mass Effect 2 = limited ammo. Fan-friggin-tastic game! Best game Bio has made since Baldur's Gate!

 

I rest my case.

Hmm, except Mass Effect 1 wasn't a good game and its only saving grace was its infinite ammo? It's a game about shooting*, but the shooting is actually pretty poorly balanced (Pistol should be called Machine Pistol once you've leveled up a little) and the cover system is garbage. I don't know about ME2, but I'm not dumb enough to buy a Bioware game (again? Maybe I once bought one. When I was five).

 

* shooting comprises only maybe 30% of actually gameplay, rest is ****ty Mako driving, elevator rides, load screens, talking to bland two-dimensional characters, stupid plot, fake choices (Yes, Sure, Definitely; you can't even not act like a moron in front of the Council at the beginning, which I tried to do), and acting like an idiotic racist for no reason.

[213374U]

Did a bunch of fat nerds who can't adapt to gameplay innovations complain? "Hurghh, I don't run out of ammo? Is this a magical gun from wonderland? I can't ****ing suspend my disbelief for five seconds!"

Interesting that the most solid arguments you've ever posted are made in ridicule. Quite telling, my friend, quite telling.

 

But no, I doubt it has anything to do with the fat nerd army. The RAGE! about that cooled down quite some time ago, and people (fat nerds are people too) just accepted it. I wonder why they changed it back?

[lord of flies]

Did a bunch of fat nerds who can't adapt to gameplay innovations complain? "Hurghh, I don't run out of ammo? Is this a magical gun from wonderland? I can't ****ing suspend my disbelief for five seconds!"

Interesting that the most solid arguments you've ever posted are made in ridicule. Quite telling, my friend, quite telling.

What a coincidence, the most cognizant points you've ever posted were quotes of me.

 

Infinite ammo doesn't interfere with disbelief. Here's how much ammo you have: enough. Boom, belief suspended. I am shooting my gun and not glancing at the lower right corner of my screen every few seconds. I am having a good time because if I want to I don't have to use my submachine guns as burst weapons. I don't run out of ammo for my shotgun in the middle of the mission because I fire it when the enemies is further away than a meter sometimes. I can use whichever of my weapons I like because the ammo drops aren't weighted towards guns that I don't like. Et cetera.

 

Advantages of Infinite Ammo: Promotes player choice, enables and somewhat encourages various behaviors which are not objectively better or worse (spray and pray isn't that good a way to shoot your SMGs), allows player to use his specialized weapons consistently and enables level design to assume that a player is experienced with whatever weapon he is currently using.

 

Disadvantages of Infinite Ammo: Fat nerds don't think they can suspend their disbelief for the quarter of a second they normally spend glancing down at their ammo counter.

[Sannom]

Another advantage of limited ammo : actually add another mechanic the Systems team can tinker with when designing the skills. One of the shotguns skill has exactly this.

[lord of flies]

Another advantage of limited ammo : actually add another mechanic the Systems team can tinker with when designing the skills. One of the shotguns skill has exactly this.

Hmm, so an advantage of limited ammo is that its disadvantage (not having ammo for your favorite gun) can be lessened? Oops, that's not an advantage at all!

[213374U]

Actually I don't care either way. I've seen both approaches work, and it's going to depend on how encounters are designed and what the point of limited/unlimited ammo is... which doesn't make your points any more valid. Since your only apparent virtue is stamina, I'm not even going to bother arguing them piecemeal.

 

But the fact remains that your baiting is losing both pungency and freshness, fast. Kinda like communism.

 

BOR-ING.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Hmm, except Mass Effect 1 wasn't a good game and its only saving grace was its infinite ammo? It's a game about shooting*, but the shooting is actually pretty poorly balanced (Pistol should be called Machine Pistol once you've leveled up a little) and the cover system is garbage. I don't know about ME2, but I'm not dumb enough to buy a Bioware game (again? Maybe I once bought one. When I was five).

 

* shooting comprises only maybe 30% of actually gameplay, rest is ****ty Mako driving, elevator rides, load screens, talking to bland two-dimensional characters, stupid plot, fake choices (Yes, Sure, Definitely; you can't even not act like a moron in front of the Council at the beginning, which I tried to do), and acting like an idiotic racist for no reason.

I felt pretty much the same about Jade Empire, but I'm very glad I gave Bio a second chance because I enjoyed ME1, and absolutely love ME2.

 

The combat is intense in ME2, as cover is much more important. If you stand out in the open firing away you will die. Some of the advantages of limited ammo, besides 'immersion/realism', I find myself swapping weapons much more frequently in ME2 and its more important to use a weapon for certain situations and not waste it for any situation. Another advantage is adds just a bit more tension to the battles. I can't unload a hundred rounds on an enemy position as covering fire as I'll be wasting ammo.

 

It depends a lot on the setting too. ME1 had a decent reason for having infinite ammo. I find it harder to accept when I play a Medal of Honor game and they give you infinite ammo or a game like Alpha Protocol where you are a spy who needs to use his wits to overcome a situation, not a pistol that you can draw out a firefight forever with.

 

I can live with unlimited ammo, it certainly didn't kill either ME1 or MoH: Airborne for me, I just feel it makes the conflicts a bit more exciting... even if its just an itty bit. I'm looking forward to Alpha Protocol with or without it.

 

It is kind of ironic to see you flipping out over limited ammo being back in... who is the fat nerd worrying about a trivial issue now?

[kreese12]

Gee, different folks for different strokes I guess.

 

I have pretty much the opposite feeling as you do, regarding Mass Effect battles. I thought the battles in Mass Effect 1 where much more fun : they required more tactics, and weren't just about staying in cover. As for the ammo system, the new ME2 ammo system works alright. You basically replenish your ammo after every fight, so the new ammo system just balances out the player's use of weapons across all of his weapons ,instead of just being able to stick with one. Fair enough. I'm not sure if I prefer the old ammo system , or the new ammo system. Either way though, ME2 rocks, even if it is way less RPG than its predecessor.

[Gorgon]

lol

[Gorgon]

Infinite ammo is stupid, but then again it depends on what kind of game it is. If they decided to abandon realism it would'nt matter, but that's not the feel I get from the game. Since you never actually know where LOF stands on anything I'm not going to bother rolling out the list of arguments.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I will not rest until this injustice is righted. Or a major game releases and distracts me.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

If they decided to abandon realism it would'nt matter, but that's not the feel I get from the game.

 

Did you miss the dual wielding SMGs? Or the punch-fu? Or the over-the-top character design? Just sayin . . .

[Oner]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...leasableFanbase

[lord of flies]

On Topic:

If they decided to abandon realism it would'nt matter, but that's not the feel I get from the game.

He holds his SMGs like he's driving a motorcycle!

I felt pretty much the same about Jade Empire, but I'm very glad I gave Bio a second chance because I enjoyed ME1, and absolutely love ME2.

Yeah, except Jade Empire is the closest thing to a "good game" that Bioware ever came. You could actually make Closed Fist choices that were kind of good, and Open Palm choices that were kind of evil. And you could score a threesome; I don't mean that in a horndog way, it's a positive decision to model relationships that exist outside of our western bourgeois binary-sexuality-serial-monogamy bull****.

 

Off Topic:

But the fact remains that your baiting is losing both pungency and freshness, fast. Kinda like communism.

Actually, socialism (and by extension revolutionary socialism, such as in Nepal) is one of the fastest growing political ideologies in the world. The Internationale unites the human race.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...leasableFanbase

Ugh. I like you alright, Oner, but if you post another link to TVTropes, I may have to revise my opinion. Edited February 2, 2010 by lord of flies

[GreasyDogMeat]

Bah, I'm not an unpleasable fan. I can live with infinite ammo, I just don't like it. If it was an absolute no-no for me then I wouldn't have bought ME1 or MoH:Airborne knowing full well they had infinite ammo from reviews/demos.

 

To me, it just feels out of place in a spy game. Watching 24 you see Jack hiding behind something, worrying about his 'last clip' before he has to use his wits to get out of the situation (or manages to finish everybody off with his uber pistol skillz).

 

By the way, where is the article/site that says they have given the pistol limited ammo now? I haven't been following too closely. I prefer not to build up too much excitement for a game too early ahead of release.

 

I felt pretty much the same about Jade Empire, but I'm very glad I gave Bio a second chance because I enjoyed ME1, and absolutely love ME2.

Yeah, except Jade Empire is the closest thing to a "good game" that Bioware ever came. You could actually make Closed Fist choices that were kind of good, and Open Palm choices that were kind of evil. And you could score a threesome; I don't mean that in a horndog way, it's a positive decision to model relationships that exist outside of our western bourgeois binary-sexuality-serial-monogamy bull****.

OK, forget your wacky views on politics, now I know you are absolute bat **** crazy. No one in their right mind would consider Jade Empire one of BioWare's best.

Edited February 2, 2010 by GreasyDogMeat

[lord of flies]

edit: not getting this dragged off topic. Continue the discussion of Jade Empire's ****tiness or not-so-****tiness here.

Edited February 2, 2010 by lord of flies

[Oner]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...leasableFanbase

Ugh. I like you alright, Oner, but if you post another link to TVTropes, I may have to revise my opinion.

It's always nice to be liked. <3

 

 

Bah, I'm not an unpleasable fan. I can live with infinite ammo, I just don't like it. If it was an absolute no-no for me then I wouldn't have bought ME1 or MoH:Airborne knowing full well they had infinite ammo from reviews/demos.

I'm pro finite ammo, it's just that people complain now, when the game's 99,9% complete. There was already a half-a-page long discussion when someone noticed an ammo pick-up notification on a screenshot the first time. Months ago.

 

By the way, where is the article/site that says they have given the pistol limited ammo now? I haven't been following too closely. I prefer not to build up too much excitement for a game too early ahead of release.

Aforementioned screenshot, walkthrough vids with enemies dropping ammo and Mike buying ammo on the black market. Edited February 2, 2010 by Oner

[Gorgon]

I thought that the idea was to have unlimited ammo for all weapons because this would save considerably on development time which could be better spent on polish, not just having a lame starter gun with unlimited ammo a la.... a lot of shooters.

[Jim Cojones]

Why? Did a bunch of fat nerds who can't adapt to gameplay innovations complain? "Hurghh, I don't run out of ammo? Is this a magical gun from wonderland? I can't ****ing suspend my disbelief for five seconds!"

It's not even about verisimilitude. Resource management is an important part of most games and RPGs amongst these genres where this aspect can enhance gameplay a lot. Not as weighty as in strategies and economical games of course but trying to save your ammo, mana/spells/scrolls for next encounters, avoiding too much damage so you won't run out of potions/first aid kits or will be able to get to next safe location to rest, managing space/weight of your inventory and deciding how to spend your hard earned money can provide very interesting challenge. It can also make the game much more exciting - there's nothing better than beating especially difficult opponent with one of your last bullets/spells/with a sword that is almost broken.

 

Using infinite ammo in an RPG/shooter hybrid would quite strange decision. You take one genre that is historically very light on resource management and other that involves quite a lot of it and then you don't try to find any compromise but take away even the little management element characteristic for shooters. Makes no sense.