sleep and depression

[Walsingham]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8435955.stm

 

A US study of 12 to 18-year-olds found those with bedtimes after midnight were 24% more likely to have depression than those who went to bed before 2200.

 

And those who slept fewer than five hours a night had a 71% higher risk of depression than those who slept eight hours, the journal Sleep reports.

[Pidesco]

I thought that had been established many years ago.

[Walsingham]

I thought that had been established many years ago.

 

Maybe so, but the members may not be aware of it.

 

Personally I found that sleep deprivation and stress/depression coexist in a spiral pattern.

[Killian Kalthorne]

How about irregular sleep patterns. I do tend to get 6 to 8 hours a sleep a day, but it is in 4 to 2 hour spurts.

[Walsingham]

How about irregular sleep patterns. I do tend to get 6 to 8 hours a sleep a day, but it is in 4 to 2 hour spurts.

 

As I understand it teh body needs 'cool down' time to get to stages 3 and 4 of sleep which do you the most good. I'd have thought 2 hours was too short to do any good. The army insist we have a minimum of 4 in an unbroken stretch.

 

But then, with respect for your misfortunes, you do suffer from depression.

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, I nag my middle schoolers about this all the time. It amazes me how many are up after midnight on school nights. I can't even function without 7 hours of sleep.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I do not suffer from depression,. I got a computer that can run my games. That makes me happy.

[Junai]

Pff... all those studies,

 

How about we turn it around and say that those who are depressed tend to go to bed later instead?

 

 

J.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, I nag my middle schoolers about this all the time. It amazes me how many are up after midnight on school nights. I can't even function without 7 hours of sleep.

 

Ugh, tell me about it. Two years back I would go out drinking six nights a week, if I try that now I need one of those narcolepsy helmets because after three days of not catching a full night of sleep I will just start falling asleep randomly anywhere.

[Enoch]

I slept for 11 hours last night. One of the few perks of recovering from illness.

[Deraldin]

I slept for 11 hours last night. One of the few perks of recovering from illness.

 

I slept for 4 hours last night, then spent the day with extended family. The first hour after I get up is usually pretty horrible no matter how much sleep I get, but after that I'm good to go pretty much all day.

[Aram]

Correlation doesn't equal causation. It's equally likely that some other influence is causing both the depression and the difficulty sleeping.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I go to bed at 3AM and wake up at noon/1PM. Is that healthy?

[theslug]

my depression doesn't make me an insomniac and it doesn't make me sleep all the time it just makes me feel perpetually tired whether I have 5 hours of sleep or 10 I always feel the same. It's pretty horrible and depressing but hey I'm on meds now though its only 10 mg. Need more drugs.

[Blank]

I concur with anecdotal evidence for myself a few years back.

[Oblarg]

I have to wake up at 6:30 in the morning, so for me at least, sleeping 8 hours is nearly impossible. On a good night, I get to sleep at 11:30 and get 7 hours, and I still feel like crap and sleep through my first class in the morning.

[Humodour]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8435955.stm

 

A US study of 12 to 18-year-olds found those with bedtimes after midnight were 24% more likely to have depression than those who went to bed before 2200.

 

And those who slept fewer than five hours a night had a 71% higher risk of depression than those who slept eight hours, the journal Sleep reports.

 

This is obvious to me from personal experience. Bad sleep patterns like this are also strongly correlated with a wide range of diseases later in life (even after accounting for other factors like fitness, smoking, etc), effectively knocking a decade or two off your lifespan.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Krezack

[Humodour]

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

The correct phrase is actually "correlation doesn't always equal causation", because it often actually does equal it.

 

It's equally likely that some other influence is causing both the depression and the difficulty sleeping.

 

I highly doubt it. It's well known that lack of sleep, and displaced sleep patterns mess up neurotransmitter levels in the brain (especially serotonin). In fact, serotonin imbalance is why people often get migraines, auras, and tension headaches when their sleep patterns are disrupted. Guess which neurotransmitter is the main one implicated in depression?

 

It would be easy to test whether it's correlation or causation by deliberately depriving a healthy individual of sleep, and I imagine they've already done this.

 

Honestly people who read a brief summary of a study and then spurt out "correlation, not causation" annoy me (and no offence to you, smart arses on Slashdot do it all the time).

 

One thing I will point out is that while it's fairly clear (and this isn't the first study) that sleep deprivation often causes/triggers depression, it isn't the only thing that does so, and thus good sleep patterns (8 to 9 hours each day always in bed before midnight), will always help those who are depressed, that doesn't mean it'll make it go away.

 

I go to bed at 3AM and wake up at noon/1PM. Is that healthy?

 

No, but if you did it consistently (i.e. every day) your body would grow used to it, mitigating the negative effects. I imagine you're like me, though, so I doubt you keep that sleep pattern consistently. You also have an elevated risk of heart attack being awake that late/early in the morning (in the period when the body expects sleep), although that shouldn't bother a healthy individual much.

[Oblarg]

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

The correct phrase is actually "correlation doesn't always equal causation", because it often actually does equal it.

 

Still wrong. The correct phrase is "correlation does not imply causation."

[Humodour]

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

The correct phrase is actually "correlation doesn't always equal causation", because it often actually does equal it.

 

Still wrong. The correct phrase is "correlation does not imply causation."

 

*sigh* Yes.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Krezack

[Deraldin]

I go to bed at 3AM and wake up at noon/1PM. Is that healthy?

 

The obvious solution would be to move to the west coast. Then you'd be going to sleep at midnight and waking up at 9/10am. Problem solved!

[Oblarg]

I go to bed at 3AM and wake up at noon/1PM. Is that healthy?

 

The obvious solution would be to move to the west coast. Then you'd be going to sleep at midnight and waking up at 9/10am. Problem solved!

 

Funny, because that's exactly what I did leading up to a recent trip to Italy. Was sleeping from from 3PM-1AM, it put me right on schedule with the jetlag.

[Walsingham]

Im 100% with Krezzie. Assuming that correlation has noting to do with causation is as bad as always assuming it does mean causation. In this case as he put more eloquently than I would have, there are subsidiary reasons to believe causation due to the role of serotonin in depression and the way serotonin appears to be regulated by sleep.

 

Actually I've been thinking for a while that we should try a depression therapy that consists entirely of aerobic exercise, good healthy food, and good sleep.

[Humodour]

Actually I've been thinking for a while that we should try a depression therapy that consists entirely of aerobic exercise, good healthy food, and good sleep.

 

Interestingly the causes for my depression weren't just physical factors, and yet fixing all three of these physical factors you mention cured it. I'm pretty sure physical factors cured it because the underlying mental reasons for being in the depressed state essentially remain.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The problem is that therapy costs way to goddamn much. So I am doing it myself by kicking a couple of bad habits of mine, starting with pop. At my worse I was a 12 pack a day pop drinker. It has been 4 days since going cold turkey. By doing this I have drastically dropped my caffiene intake as will all those sugars and corn syrup. I feel weird and have a bit of a headache.