Capitalism is un-Christian.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Let Africans take care of themselves. If they cannot survive and compete then they have no one to blame but themselves. Survival belongs to those who have the will and strength to do so.

[Trenitay]

Of course not. Its not your fault that you chose to follow a polytheistic religion that has done a great deal of evil in the past which also promotes cannibalism.

 

It's monotheistic, thank you very much.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Of course not. Its not your fault that you chose to follow a polytheistic religion that has done a great deal of evil in the past which also promotes cannibalism.

 

It's monotheistic, thank you very much.

 

Oh, you don't follow the idealogy of the Trinity. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, three divine entities. Sure they are connected, much like the Hindu gods, to a single divine source, but they are three distinct individuals.

[Gromnir]

hypothetical:

 

Gromnir creates a rather unoriginal Moral Philosophy that exhorts folks to be kind to one another. however, because we claims that we is speaking the Word of God our philosophy becomes a religion... the fact that there is some wackiness in our philosophy (believers should avoid orange skinned fruit as such vegetation carries with it the seeds of human downfall, the world will end on july 7, 2777 at 7am gmt, etc.) actually aids in our philosophy being embraced as a religion.

 

100 years after Gromnir is dead and buried, the ironic named Church of Orange commits many heinous acts o' violence while managing to become the world's second largest private owner o' real estate holdings. followers of Gromnir's religion systematic kill buddihst monks, cal-trans workers, and sunkist employees.

 

question:

 

is the moral philosophy o' Gromnir busted 'cause o' the actions o' his followers?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps the bible is an interesting read and as it is arguable the most influential written work in the western world, it is worth study. the bible is also frequently as wacky and self-contradictory as a vol post.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Gromnir

[Tigranes]

Oh, you don't follow the idealogy of the Trinity. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, three divine entities. Sure they are connected, much like the Hindu gods, to a single divine source, but they are three distinct individuals.

 

It's cute you're trying to be clever, but they drummed this out over several hundred years and several thousand dead bodies.

 

Although, if you're short-sighted enough to say that about 'Africans' (that's nice of you to discard an entire continent into the waste-pile with that definition), I'm rather glad we have religion around so that it can hopefully be used for good.

 

is the moral philosophy o' Gromnir busted 'cause o' the actions o' his followers?

 

It's a secondary question. If Religion du Grom has sufficient cause for belief in the first place, before his death, then the actions of his followers are simply a problem in and of themselves. This cause for belief can obviously be different for people, as it is for Christianity or other religions. For some it is a 'miracle', others a 'vision' or 'dream' (despite the inherent impossibility of defining a miracle or vision that would satisfy all), for others it is a certain text or words or place designated as sacred (though that, as I'm sure you can identify, is a reverse logic), etc.

 

The most interesting part is, of course, what if Religion du Grom has provided sufficient cause for belief for many people (Or at least sufficient cause for the possibility of belief), and has also, through its teachings, advocated the actions of his followers? Then it is simply a matter of the faith battling it out over existing common sense. Sometimes, in limited areas, the former manages to win and change the latter. Sunkist may become an unviable business model.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I would say the same thing about the Americas, Australia, and what not. A nation that cannot survive on its own does not deserve to exist as a nation.

 

I was trying to make a joke about the whole trinity thingie.

 

Joke Fail.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne

[lord of flies]

Let Africans take care of themselves. If they cannot survive and compete then they have no one to blame but themselves. Survival belongs to those who have the will and strength to do so.

I like social darwinism, because it allows you to pretty much automatically rule out anything a person says in the future, since they're a barbaric, selfish, myopic piece of human waste.

 

Do you really think that Africans are the only ones responsible for their plight? Did you know US food aid can only come from the USA, so it has to be shipped long distances while simultaneously undercutting local agriculture? That it prevents agricultural development in the third world just to give another handout to American farmers?

[Killian Kalthorne]

Of course. The US government's first and foremost priority should be its own people. Just like any nation's top priority should be at.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Of course. The US government's first and foremost priority should be its own people. Just like any nation's top priority should be at.

 

This.

[Blank]

I did a word search in the Bible on riches and possessions and these stuck out to me:

 

Matthew 19:16-26

Luke 12:13-21

1 John 3:16-18

Proverbs 30:7-9

Jeremiah 9:22-24

Luke 8:14

Luke 16:10-13

Matthew 17:24-26

Isaiah 55:1-3

[Dark_Raven]

What a funny topic. Capitalism and those who believe is some mythic being.

 

Darwin was a bright man, survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive while the weak are crushed.

[Nightshape]

You know, I've had this conversation before and I'll repeat now what I said then. There are two things about God I know to be a fact.

 

1) There is a God

2) I'm not God

 

There are two things that you know for a fact? Well okay I could maybe buy into number 2.

 

Number 1 has me though, so I'm calling your bluff... PROVE IT!

 

I don't know who gets into heaven and who does not. I don't know what is a sin or what isn't. It is the height of idocy for one human to tell another "You are going to hell". It is for far greater beings to judge the worth of someones soul.

 

Define greater being? This is very confusing for me.

 

Even if I accept the concept of a "greater being", the fact it has some kind of judgement over me screams that the greater being is a tyrant, tyrants cannot be greater beings so the greater being is a lesser being, with more power, thr power to punish.

 

I think Tyrants should be opposed, hence I oppose the "greater being."

 

I do not know if prayers are answered, or ignored as the deists would tell you.

 

Only I know my thoughts so surely only I can answer them... It would first require my thoughts to not be my own, and if that is indeed the case, then we end up with the greater being Tyrant, again. Even if all prayers were granted, it has invaded what could be deemed to be my personal space so to speak.

 

I do not know if God has predetermined everything and there is no free will as the Calvanists propose.

 

Well, far as I know my subconcious is making most of my choices before I'm even aware of them, so screw free will.

 

I do know if the Baptists are right and drinking and sex out of marriage are mortal sins then I'm already screwed.

 

Well I suppose we all get to find out eventually. right? Well more, maybe, on account to the fact that so many denominations believe so many different things, who knows who's right. Someone somewhere is likely to say you're screwed. We're all screwed w00t.

 

The reason I am a Christian is that there were two incidents in my life, one just this year, that convined me beyond doubt that while my chosen faith may not be all true as I understand it, there is very much truth in it.

 

Oh so your so called fact, is actually some subjective experience?

 

@ LoF: I am a real world Libertarian. I believe in, above all other things, the unimpeded freedom of the individual (one big reason why you and I will NEVER agree on anything LoF). Jesus taught that the virtue in giving comes from doing it because you WANT to do it. Not because the state TOOK it from you. Jesus said "What you do for the least of my children you do for me". If I donated my entire paycheck to a charity because I wanted to, that is virtuous. If the state confiscates my entire paycheck and uses it for what it deems "the greater good" there is no virtue in that for me. There is no virtue in it at all. It is just a group of people taking something they did not earn away from someone who did. There is a word for that too.

 

What about that tyrant greater diety figure your was on about, ya know the one that knows all my thoughts, and may send me to hell if only we could figure out which rule book is correct?

 

Just curious LoF. Do not answer if you will not answer honestly. I donated just under $3500 total to six different charities (most of them dog rescue groups) this past year. How much did you give?

 

And.....

[lord of flies]

Of course. The US government's first and foremost priority should be its own people. Just like any nation's top priority should be at.

This is nothing more than a justification for imperialism, and you know it.

Darwin was a bright man, survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive while the weak are crushed.

Darwin identified a natural phenomena. Social darwinists wish to say that this natural phenomena is "good" or "right," when in reality it is not. Should we leave the sick to die on the streets, since they're "weak"?

[Nightshape]

the bible is also frequently as wacky and self-contradictory as a vol post.

 

Surely not... Volo is rarely so wordy.

[Killian Kalthorne]

If Imperialism is necessary for a country to do its best to serve its own people then that nation is obligated to use it. If another country does not wish to be under the thumb of Imperialists then that nation should do what it can to fight them. If they are too weak to do so then they get what they deserve.

 

The proof of God's existence does not exist outside the self, Nightshape. The proof is within if He chooses to reveal it to you.

[Dark_Raven]

Remember sheep, jesus saves!

 

Can't have proof on something that doesn't exist. Believers are brainwashed into believing into such delusions.

[Nightshape]

The proof of God's existence does not exist outside the self, Nightshape. The proof is within if He chooses to reveal it to you.

 

So it's an acceptable self-dellusion? Well unless you're one of the initiated, and then well you know, because you've had it proven to you... It's all against reason.

[Killian Kalthorne]

So it's an acceptable self-dellusion? Well unless you're one of the initiated, and then well you know, because you've had it proven to you... It's all against reason.

 

Well, duh. It is called "faith." Faith is not reasonable. Never has been and never will.

[I want teh kotor 3]

The proof of God's existence does not exist outside the self, Nightshape. The proof is within if He chooses to reveal it to you.

 

So it's an acceptable self-dellusion? Well unless you're one of the initiated, and then well you know, because you've had it proven to you... It's all against reason.

 

There will only be proof of God's existence until some theoretical physicist figures out where the Big Bang came from. Until then, the proof is that the universe exists.

[lord of flies]

The proof of God's existence does not exist outside the self, Nightshape. The proof is within if He chooses to reveal it to you.

 

So it's an acceptable self-dellusion? Well unless you're one of the initiated, and then well you know, because you've had it proven to you... It's all against reason.

 

There will only be proof of God's existence until some theoretical physicist figures out where the Big Bang came from. Until then, the proof is that the universe exists.

"But it's turtles all the way down!"

[Killian Kalthorne]

Turtles?

 

[Guard Dog]

*Everything Nightshape said*

 

The beauty of Christianity, and freedom for that matter, is you can take it or leave it. You do not need to believe in it at all. It's purely voluntary. I do not have to prove God exists to believe it. You do not need to disprove him to disbelieve it. Like I said, I do not pretend to know who or what God is, what his motivations are, and you will never hear me saying who will/won't/should/shouldn't go to hell or heaven. Thats beyond me. When it comes to theology there are two simple premises to choose from and both are absurd on their face:

 

1) A supreme being that you cannot see or interact with or even prove/disprove the existence of created everything

 

or

 

2) Nothing created everthing

 

 

You need the pick the one that makes the most sense to you based on YOUR life experiences, education, etc.

 

 

Capitalisim you can also take or leave. If you do not wish to participate just don't buy things. Don't consume. You can opt out at any time. But for the Communist it's not enough for them to choose not to participate, they have to destroy the whole system to ensure that YOU don't participate as well. I have to tell you most of the atheists I hae met are a lot closer to communists than capitalists. It's not enough that they do not believe in God, they cant suffer to be around anyone who does and harrases them with the same condescending arrogance that LoF had down to an art. Ironic isn't it?

Edited December 30, 2009 by Guard Dog

[Gorgon]

Asking for proof positive that god exists is a pit unfair no ?. Like beating up a cripple.

 

Anyway that's why they call it belief.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I go by what I know, not by belief. I know God exists due to my own personal experiences with the bugger. I choose not to worship Him.

[Trenitay]

Can't have proof on something that doesn't exist. Believers are brainwashed into believing into such delusions.

 

You could say that about anything that doesn't have proof. You don't have proof that God doesn't exist and I don't have proof that He does. By your logic He both exists and is nonexistant.