Dragon age discussion

[CoM_Solaufein]

After starting three different games, I have finally beat the game. Victory at last. A well made game if I may say so.

[HoonDing]

I'm again in the Deep Roads.

 

...

 

Gawd. It's like Mines of Moria & Shelob's Lair combined, only not epic.

[jaguars4ever]

I'm again in the Deep Roads.

 

...

 

Gawd. It's like Mines of Moria & Shelob's Lair combined, only not epic.

I'm putting off revisiting the Dread Roads until Wynne has her 4th level spirit healing power that turns her into a walking Bacta Tank. That way, I won't have to worry about my party members having like 15 different wounds with no injury kits to treat them.

[Enoch]

I'm not finding the Deep Roads to be all that bad. But that may be because I'm playing them spaced-out, basically going through one area per weeknight. (Finished Ortan Thaig last night; the fight against the

corrupted spider queen

was actually one of the most fun ones yet in the game.)

 

I also discovered last night that you can jump right from a Deep Road exit grid to your party camp (which is in the same sylvan glen as always). Odd.

[Pidesco]

At first, I thought you were saying you enjoyed the Deep Roads, because you played through them stoned.

[Aristes]

I don't take offense, Tigranes. Frankly, though, I didn't even know there were traps in the lair until Gromnir mentioned it. I don't think I'm under leveled. My main character is level 8 and my other characters are at least level 7. I think. I haven't paid that much attention. All's I know is that one shot tends to kill my party members. Literally, I walked into the room and one fire shot knocked out three of my party members immediately. That could be a trap, though, now that I think about it.

 

My mage is invested in frost and fire at this point, but not high enough level to get the 4th teir. I tried the battle I believe four times yesterday. Hell, except for a couple of times against the

revenant and friends

this particular battle is the first one to require a reload. Of course, this is my first place I visited after I left that little burg being over-run by darkspawn. My party right now consists of the rogue, the shapechanger, Sten, the dog, and Allistar. I like having the rogue and Allistar in my party because I enjoy their voice overs the most and I like having the dog with me because he luuuurves me so much. ...But one must make changes to win the battle.

 

So, between my pc and the mage, we have at least plenty of chances to slap down some control on the beastie. Sadly, it resists about half of my spells at this point, but the extra chances should help. I got it down to about 1/4 health yesterday and I'll try the new party mix when I get the chance later. Thanks for the tips. I'll try it with the mage (PC), Morrigan, the pup, and Sten next. I do have to say, however, that Allistar is the only one so far who's stayed on his feet at all. On the other hand, if I can keep big, dark, and ugly controlled better, the extra damage might be better in order to end the battle faster.

[Monte Carlo]

^ If it's any consolation, I tried that fight at level 8 on Normal and had my arse handed to me.

 

OK, it was my first playthrough and I also fell foul of the, er, environmental peculiarities of that battle. I went away, came back at level 12 and returned the serve quite easily.

[TheHarlequin]

I just assumed 'low magic' was shoved under the carpet, as for about the last year they stopped talking about it and went on about how their Lord of the Rings + Blood = Success algorithm should be called 'dark fantasy'. I mean, it's a bloody fun game I can't stop playing but who's kidding themselves? At least they didn't blatantly lie about the actual gameplay, or I'd have whined uncontrollably while sipping Nerd Cola.

 

Not to beat a dead horse but thats a very poor way to go about it, borderline deceptive (again assuming they never retracted it upfront). The 'if we stop talking about something we have for 4 yrs of the development then assume its no more' policy. Seems they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. If we stop talking about it a yr before release we have the defense 'we stopped talking about it.. (just never said so)' yet many people (since they never said other wise) still think it holds true so we won't loose those fans until they buy the game and find out. Seems like your 101 bait and switch tactic to me. *shrugs* But its bioware not like they have not pulled this before. *cough*nwn1*cough*

 

I REALLY hope someone at EA cut peter jackson a check. I mean they ripped off so many of his scenes in their cut scenes, some almost angle for angle, motion for motion. It's actually sad their lack of creativity. Seems when they came up to a mental block the default solution was to pop in a LotR DVD and copy a action scene or middle earth element. If thats true or not I don't know but its the impression I am left with.

 

But as a whole I agree with all your points.

[Aristes]

Holy Cow. Thanks Gromnir. How the hell could I miss that those large fireballs were trap effects? I went and lured it into the hallway and didn't even get anyone knocked out of the fight. I don't think it was your level so much as those fire trap effects, Monte. Damn. I could kick myself.

 

Oh, and I decided to take Alistair with me. Sten isn't geared as well and Alistair has the durability advantage, so I basically switched between CC and healing the tank. I took a few levels of healing on my pc since Morrigan doesn't seem to do healing at this point.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Aristes

[~Di]

I finally finished the game. I must say that from the time I hit

the Gates of Denerim

the constant battles grated on my last nerve. Toooo much. Took me six freaking hours of nothing but being overwhelmed. Lost Morrigan twice, so there went our ranged attacks. Thank god for

all my little allied armies. Those dwarves are life savers.

I decided to take Shale instead of Wynne, so I didn't have any healing. Must have gone through 40-50 healing potions. Good thing I had a decent stock of them.

 

Still, overall a great game. I loved my little rogue assassin. Now I'm going to try a mage, because frankly I'm sick of Morrigan and would love to go somewhere without her complaining and losing approval every time I help someone else with a quest. Besides, after the little surprise at the end, I really don't want to look at her again. There are some things I did NOT want to see... my poor, poor Alistair.

 

Am I the only one who thought the end battles were too many and too much?

[HoonDing]

Am I the only one who thought the end battles were too many and too much?

Too much useless, filler combat. Darkspawn that all die in one hit? Why even bother with that.

 

I just wanted to end the game asap at that point. The last boss was very easy too with Leliana around.

[TheHarlequin]

Am I the only one who thought the end battles were too many and too much?

Too much useless, filler combat. Darkspawn that all die in one hit? Why even bother with that.

 

I just wanted to end the game asap at that point. The last boss was very easy too with Leliana around.

 

Agreed with you and Di. The ending seemed rushed and combat for the sake of combat. I also was in the same boat as Di by the time I got to the 'final battle' I just wanted the game to be over. The fun factor was lost a bit after the encounter with howe. It just seemed not far from that point it was just a exercise to shoo us out the door, tie up the story ASAP and end it. At least the impression I was left with. And frankly I was ready for that as it became just a pointless grind by then.

Edited December 2, 2009 by TheHarlequin

[~Di]

It's too bad, actually. I love the game, but now that I know what a long grind that endgame is, I might not even bother with it next time. It wasn't that it was all that difficult; it just took so damned long that I was screaming "enough already!" I could not wait for the game to end at that point.

[entrerix]

the endgame only took me about an hour and a half... it was repetetive, but most everything died in one hit except a couple of bosses so it wasnt exactly time consuming

 

that said, the game would be a lot better if fully half of all the mooks were excised from the entirety of it. imagine how much better it would be if deeproads and carta hideout and the long cavern areas were all half as monsterfilled...

 

the game still would have taken me about 50 hours to beat, but it would have been less grindy-feeling

[Volourn]

You are fighting a deepsawn horde. You relaly think you should be fighting just 5 of them? The logic does not make sense.

 

 

"Now I'm going to try a mage, because frankly I'm sick of Morrigan and would love to go somewhere without her complaining and losing approval every time I help someone else with a quest"

 

This isn't true. In fact, in multiple situations, she suggests you do the 'nice' thing.

 

 

 

" Besides, after the little surprise at the end, I really don't want to look at her again. There are some things I did NOT want to see... my poor, poor Alistair."

 

Well.. you could have turned her down... It's not like she forces you.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Volourn

[HoonDing]

Deep Roads is ridiculous. After wasting 20 deepstalkers, it's a bit too much to have another 10 popping up from the ground, and after that another round of 10... it would be alright if there were only Darkspawn.

 

This isn't true. In fact, in multiple situations, she suggests you do the 'nice' thing.

??

 

I got her approval to 100 this time by leaving her at camp the entire game and showering her with jewelry. First playthrough I always did the noble thing and her approval was +9 in the end.

[Gromnir]

This isn't true. In fact, in multiple situations, she suggests you do the 'nice' thing.

??

 

I got her approval to 100 this time by leaving her at camp the entire game and showering her with jewelry. First playthrough I always did the noble thing and her approval was +9 in the end.

 

you failed to realize that vol were using "nice" in its middle-english incarnation... meant wanton or mischievous. see? makes sense now, don't it?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"I got her approval to 100 this time by leaving her at camp the entire game and showering her with jewelry. First playthrough I always did the noble thing and her approval was +9 in the end."

 

I played a good character, always had her in my party, always made the 'good'/ 'nice' choice, and I ended up with her in love with me, and pretty much maxed approval.

 

Like I said, there are at least two 'nice' things when wondering if you should spare certain npcs will she'll push you not to kill them. That's pretty nice.

[Dark_Raven]

Keep giving Material Girl jewelry and she'll like you forever. In one game at the end, she basically called me a friend. I should hope so after all I did for her.

[Volourn]

She did a lot for you too.

[WDeranged]

At first, I thought you were saying you enjoyed the Deep Roads, because you played through them stoned.

 

Are you spying on me?

[Tigranes]

Not to beat a dead horse but thats a very poor way to go about it, borderline deceptive (again assuming they never retracted it upfront).

 

In general I would agree Bio's marketing has been farcical and setting a poor precedent for the industry (and continuing the poor precedent of Oblivion). However, on the particular issue of 'deception'... well, I think it's a relatively small thing to get worked up about. Maybe because I never expected DA to actually be 'low-magic'. I was more inclined to laugh openly at their, as you say, scene-by-scene plagiarism of LOTR in Ostagar. After the first time though, I can ESC-skip it now.

 

re: Endgame, as Volo says it is a darkspawn horde and there SHOULD be a lot of fighting. I think two things really were at issue here: (a) the battle set-piece design was nonexistent, and (b) the lack of variety in the darkspawn really hurts here. They had the potential to really really drive home the whole 'Blight' business here by showing what happens to a city you know the ins and outs of, really show how different the focused archdemon-lead darkspawn is from the deep roads darkspawn, and give the player some challenge. What about 'strike forces' of darkspawn that are a tight team of higher-level hurlocks, genlocks, genlock assassins, emissaries, and an ogre, at least, that have some sort of archdemon-given special ability (something hideous but effective, like a genlock walking bomb)? What about the options to sneak into some vantage point above a large group of darkspawn then use the crumbling environment to turn them into smoosh? And did 95% of the Denerim populace die in the first 5 minutes of the wave? Nobody to rescue, no resistance to go help. The landsmeet parts did a great job showing just how corrupt and nepotistic the Arls are even when they're the 'good guys' (seemingly) against Loghain; it would have been delightful to come across an arl using his own soldiers as meatshields and baits as he tries to get away.

 

With such a long development time I can't help but think some parts of the game could have done what Dragon Age does well very well. But it seems like the darkspawn themselves were very ill-thought out in the lore and the endgame had no 'design' to speak of.

[entrerix]

yeah, i got really goddamn sick of seeing the same 5 darkspawn over and over again. they should have had genlocks riding on giant spiders.

[Volourn]

"But it seems like the darkspawn themselves were very ill-thought out in the lore"

 

Totally bdisagree. The darkspawn are fantastic, and fit perfetcly. The best thing is we still don't neccessarily know the truth of them. From how they are created, their connection to the archdemon to heck not even knowing what their actual purpose is or even if they have an actual purpose outside of total destruction.

 

 

"really show how different the focused archdemon-lead darkspawn is from the deep roads darkspawn,"

 

How can they show this at this time as the archdemon is around so even the usual character 'deep road' darkspawn are more focused now. Depending what the plan is for DA2 where we might not have anothe rblight, we might see how the darkspawn are sans archdemon influence.

 

 

"And did 95% of the Denerim populace die in the first 5 minutes of the wave? Nobody to rescue, no resistance to go help."

 

*sigh* Sometimes I wonde rif people conviently 'forget' things when it hurts their point. Did you enter the elven alienage? I did, and I saw people asking for help to hold off the darkspawn which led to a nice start to one of the best fights in the game. And, I'm most of Denerim's populace fled/evacuated before the darkspawn army reached it. Why would civilians hang around? And, the armies were fighting darkspawn.

 

 

"it would have been delightful to come across an arl using his own soldiers as meatshields and baits as he tries to get away."

 

I agree that this what if would have been a nice addition.

 

 

 

"they should have had genlocks riding on giant spiders."

 

And, they'd simply be accused of ripping off x like everything else in the game.

 

I think the variety of darkspawn was solid. Genlocks, hurlocks, ogres, shriekers, emessaries (and other various spellcasters), tainted wolves, tainted spiders, broodmother, archdmeon are all avrieties of darkspawn. Not bad. Sure, nobody including me would likely complain about more variety. But, *shrug* It should be pointed out everyone of these darkspawn types actually have a point to them in the lore and in the game. Genlocks, hurlocks, ogres, and shriekers particuarly don't pop out of thin air.

 

 

"general I would agree Bio's marketing has been farcical and setting a poor precedent for the industry (and continuing the poor precedent of Oblivion). However, on the particular issue of 'deception'... "

 

Disagreed. The amrketing for DA was absolutely spot on. It delievred exactly what was promised. Whether that was good enough is up to the individual. Plus, some people have their own perceptions so when BIO stats x, someone hears y or BIo states x in year 2, and someone holds it up as being hardcoded truth in year 6. Which is sad since things change.

 

The whole 'low magic' or 'dark thing' is nothing but hype and useless monikers because it means NOTHING since everyone's perception of what is 'low magic' or 'dark' are wholly different.

 

ie. Harliquin believes wholeheartedly that DA is low magic which I simply find laughable. A agme where basiclaly every store sells magic items, where magic plays a huge role, where finding magic items occurs every 2-3 battles, and what not. In fact, people complain that out of 10 DA companions, you 'only' get 2 mages as potentials. To me, that's too high magic. They should give you 25 compnaions, and have only 3-4 potential mages (4 counting the PC of course) as they would show how low magic it is. But, that would never happen because players would riot.

 

I'm thinking that people like Harlequin would loathe to play in my version of a 'low magic world'.

[Tigranes]

Totally bdisagree. The darkspawn are fantastic, and fit perfetcly. The best thing is we still don't neccessarily know the truth of them. From how they are created, their connection to the archdemon to heck not even knowing what their actual purpose is or even if they have an actual purpose outside of total destruction.

 

To clarify: I think how they are created, their relationship with the Maker and the Tevinter Imperium and such, their impact on the world, etc., is very well thought out. What is not well thought out is their actual interface with the player - how they are now, what they do. They don't do anything. There's a difference between 'mystery' and blandness.

 

How can they show this at this time as the archdemon is around so even the usual character 'deep road' darkspawn are more focused now. Depending what the plan is for DA2 where we might not have anothe rblight, we might see how the darkspawn are sans archdemon influence.

 

Because in the deep roads they're just hanging around 'at camp', while here they're in full force doing their thing. Except as far as the game is concerned, the archdemon's only role is to fly around and say GO FORWARD. I'm not disputing the lore, and I'm not saying things don't make sense. What I am saying is that the lore, plot and gameplay should come together in a way where you have sensible lore/plot that gives interesting gameplay. Doesn't happen at all.

 

*sigh* Sometimes I wonde rif people conviently 'forget' things when it hurts their point. Did you enter the elven alienage? I did, and I saw people asking for help to hold off the darkspawn which led to a nice start to one of the best fights in the game. And, I'm most of Denerim's populace fled/evacuated before the darkspawn army reached it. Why would civilians hang around? And, the armies were fighting darkspawn.

 

I concede that the Alienage was better in that sense, my bad for forgetting. Oh, and in terms of lore/plot, you had the entire army go to Redcliffe and miss the darkspawn - what informs the civilians any better that they can evacuate so perfectly?

 

The amrketing for DA was absolutely spot on. It delievred exactly what was promised.

 

Yeah, DA is real dark, man.