Volourn Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 "For the love of god Vol, think about what your saying with this "some classes should be crap it's just the way things are" schtick." I never said rogues should be crap. And, DA rogues aren't crap. they aren't useful but they aren't and shouldn't be combat 'tanks' like mages and warriors. They are a support class. This is why they have specialty classes like the bard. I've sued the girl rogue, and she does pretty fine as a SUPPORT PLAYER. If your PC is a rogue don't try to play him as a tank... justy like you wouldn't bring your mage into straight up melee with a golem or ogre. Every class has their uses. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
kirottu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 I finished DA yesterday. I can This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Volourn Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 "I finished DA yesterday. I can DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Majek Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 They don't need str for anything else but armor and you don't want to put heavy armor on rogues anyway. That's for tanks. in combat cunning takes over for strength when you put point Lethality ( lvl 8 unlock) anway. 1.13 killed off Ja2.
Monte Carlo Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) I'm agreeing with Grom, in that the developers clearly couldn't make their minds up what a rogue is for. Even Vol agrees that a spellcaster / non-spellcaster divide would be OK. What is a rogue? Look to the source material. The Grey Mouser, Robin Hood, the weaselly little bloke who hangs out with Conan? All of them share the same attributes - guile, cunning, an aversion to wearing much armour, a reliance on agility and wit, archery, small weapons, stealth... the classic RPG rogue took this on board and added a discrete skill set suitable for gaming mechanics. From that you could build different rogues - the tech monkey with traps and locks, the light fighter a la Errol Flynn, the stealth-master assassin etc. But none of these things seem to transfer successfully across into the Dragon Age rogue. Dragon Age is still fairly vanilla fantasy, sort of late R/W Dark Ages / early Medieval with a sprinkling of Byzantine politics. I can't build the genuinely useful support character Volourn describes, nor the stealthy light fighter I'd actually like to play. The combat doesn't lend itself to rogues, either. A lot of it is mob / melee slogging, ideal for tanks and artillery but not skirmishing. In the scrum, the rogue is mediocre at best, like I say best placed to mop up mage-inflicted walking wounded. And as we've pointed out, as a challenge I'm sure the rogue will be fun. But I'm certain that this is an unintended consequence... the designers didn't want that seeing as a lot of players will be making a rogue with certain (perfectly reasonable) preconceptions then hitting the big red WTF button as, yet again, their character is slaughtered for daring entering the fray. Cheers MC Edited November 13, 2009 by Monte Carlo
Monte Carlo Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 ^ Just to add - look at the 3E rogue. Can take combat feats to move around the battlefield, can use passive sneak attack etc. Rush past a rogue in battle to mob a mage - AoO and sneak attack makes the rogue feel like he's actually doing something.
Maria Caliban Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 I finished DA yesterday. I can "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Volourn Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 "Even Vol agrees that a spellcaster / non-spellcaster divide would be OK." Yup. I think a lot of the rogue complaints would be solved this way as people could mix and match the abilties as they see fit so they could flat out tank if they want or do a warrior/rogue hybrid. Also, believe me, when i finish the game and do a full review, you will see my list of complaints about the game. It's not perfect. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
kirottu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) You shouldn't need to have a PC version to tell since DA is a party basse dgame and I'm sure you've had rogue, mage, and warrior npcs in your party at one time or another. I don Edited November 13, 2009 by kirottu This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
kirottu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 I finished DA yesterday. I can This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
alanschu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 They don't need str for anything else but armor and you don't want to put heavy armor on rogues anyway. That's for tanks. in combat cunning takes over for strength when you put point Lethality ( lvl 8 unlock) anway. Some builds replace cunning for strength, and they have been pretty powerful for rogues.
HoonDing Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) I think I haven't killed a Darkspawn for over 10 hours. I'm doing the Urn quest, way too long & repetitive dungeon crawl... so much that I am even beginning to ponder destroying the Urn. I also did Leliana's quest, but I think I made the wrong choice at the end and I might regret it later. EDIT: oh, and finding a +10 dragonslaying sword upon revisiting an area after wasting so much blood & sweat on Flemeth, wasn't exactly funny. Edited November 13, 2009 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Monte Carlo Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Dude, you are ****ting spoilers, could you tag them please? Edited November 13, 2009 by Gorth Language...
Spider Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 They don't need str for anything else but armor and you don't want to put heavy armor on rogues anyway. That's for tanks. in combat cunning takes over for strength when you put point Lethality ( lvl 8 unlock) anway. Some builds replace cunning for strength, and they have been pretty powerful for rogues. But if you do that, what happens to the rogue skills like lock-picking? If you lose out on that, you might as well just play a fighter instead, no? I will most likely be playing a rogue my first playthrough (I usually do, and while the mages are interesting, it's not what I'd like to play) and I am trying to figure out how to build it. From what I've seen you want to have some strength to wield the better weapons. I've seen the number 31 will allow you to wield the strongest sword. Then you need dex for skill. 36 for dual mastery. And rest in cunning I suppose. The question is, how high would cunning reach then? Would lethality even be worth it, or will you end on something fairly similar to strength, so it's better to just get the cunning you need for talents and go all out on strength? How high of a boost can you get from stat boosting items? is it just +1 or +2 or does it go higher? (and why can't we have a DO:Tactics thread for these types of questions)
Majek Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 It can go higher. If can't find it, toolset to the rescue. 1.13 killed off Ja2.
HoonDing Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 I hope the memory leak issue gets patched soon. Especially since Phenom users like myself are especially hit by this problem. The more I progress in the game, the faster my performance is getting whacked over the head... I have to restart the game basically every hour now. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
kirottu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 Dude, you are ****ting spoilers, could you tag them please? Me? I hope the memory leak issue gets patched soon. Especially since Phenom users like myself are especially hit by this problem. The more I progress in the game, the faster my performance is getting whacked over the head... I have to restart the game basically every hour now. I started to notice that too in the last castle. Area transitions started to really take awhile. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Oner Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 That was the bitter part, now to more positive things. I really enjoyed dragon aggro system. It was great to watch it to take off and fly to the characters who did most of the damage. I was sure that I'll outsmart it right away but it either wiped aggro list from time to time or had some distance reductions (like in many MMOGs) in aggro. It kicked Shale away and moved to my archers or healer. Uldred was funny in that regard, I agro'd him with threaten and every time the PC was knocked down, he switched to Leliana, then switched back after my PC hit him once. They Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Monte Carlo Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 ^ No that was at my friend Virumor, who kindly corrected the issue. Mods: apologies for my lapse in language. Oh, and can we have a tactics thread please? There is clearly demand and I suspect it will become the main DA thread anyway. Cheers MC
Majek Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 What for? You already dismissed the rogue as useless so tactics for that are not needed. Most the tactics for warriors and mages don't even have to learned. So what are you going to invent? 1.13 killed off Ja2.
Raithe Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 hm, well I just finished my first run through about half an hour ago.. had a human noble rogue and didn't have too much trouble. My main complaint was always being low on health poultices during the first half of the game.. it wasn't until getting on towards the landsmeet that I was able to keep a good stock of them up... It mainly just called for careful use of the main character during battles. Not just letting him wade in tank style.. Making sure to use flanking positions and Dirty Fighting to set up for other things.. Once you got that down pat, it seemed to work well... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Monte Carlo Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 What for? You already dismissed the rogue as useless so tactics for that are not needed. Most the tactics for warriors and mages don't even have to learned. So what are you going to invent? Who urinated on your cornflakes this morning? Anyway, I thought I'd go back to Lothering to see the merchant, but, dah-dah-dah! T'was a skull on the world map, razed by the Darkspawn. So they do advance... Have got my first NPC to adore (+90), 'tis Morrigan, this was achieved by spamming her with presents and behaving like the Lawful Evil stud-muffin my character clearly is. Sten also thinks I am the best thing since sliced bread, achieved by giving him dodgy paintings found in barrels and telling him to STFU. Cheers MC
alanschu Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 But if you do that, what happens to the rogue skills like lock-picking? If you lose out on that, you might as well just play a fighter instead, no? Depending on who you ask, the rogue build is still more powerful damage wise. I would guess it'd be like a WoW rogue or something, in that it'd be a large damage dealer. As for lockpicking, IIRC, picking the lockpicking skill is effectively +10 cunning. Though I don't know what the end game cunning requirements are for lockpicking off the top of my head though.
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