Junai Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 am always amused to hear folks rationalize the piracy o' a Luxury item. please continue. HA! Good Fun! I'm always amused to hear the bigshots in the music-industry justify the inflated CD prices and their own fleeting reality. Having said that, I'm gonna pay for Dragon Age. ..but not before I get to check it out at a friends or at the store. I learned my lesson with NWN2. J.
MacMichael Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 You want EA to make you a demo because for whatever reason you don't like watching trailers and reading previews. Making a demo costs way more for them in time and resources(compared to making a trailer, for example), which is why they are not doing it.Uh, so what? TV ads are absurdly expensive, too, and they purchase time on air for the big hits. TV ads have a far different purpose though. TV ads are meant to increase your pool of potential buyers. They get people that haven't heard of the game interested. And for those people, there's already a lot of information about the game available in many different mediums. Demos really do the opposite. They're for people that already know about the game. And while they can push some people towards a firm "buy it", they can just as easily shrink your pool of buyers too. I don't think the piracy argument works. A demo can just as easily tell a person that the game isn't worth buying, but is just interesting enough to pirate, as not having a demo tells a person that they need to pirate to "test it out" because they can't make a decision based on the information already out there. I'm going to need better directions than "the secret lair." -==(UDIC)==-
Gromnir Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 am always amused to hear folks rationalize the piracy o' a Luxury item. please continue. HA! Good Fun! I don't think anyone is actually doing that. The anti-piracy squad is on a hair trigger, as usual. an over-sensitive pirate responds? if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy... *shrug* and looks at junai's typical doggerel. does high price o' entertainment have anything whatsoever to do with piracy... or were that a non sequitur with no real purpose? bah. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) an over-sensitive pirate responds? if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy... *shrug* and looks at junai's typical doggerel. does high price o' entertainment have anything whatsoever to do with piracy... or were that a non sequitur with no real purpose? bah. HA! Good Fun! Oh no, you got me now. We don't need to turn this thread into another piracy "debate"(read: flamewar). If you think someone is advocating piracy, report them, as simple as that. Edited November 2, 2009 by Purkake
Gromnir Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 an over-sensitive pirate responds? if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy... *shrug* and looks at junai's typical doggerel. does high price o' entertainment have anything whatsoever to do with piracy... or were that a non sequitur with no real purpose? bah. HA! Good Fun! Oh no, you got me now. We don't need to turn this thread into another piracy "debate"(read: flamewar). If you think someone is advocating piracy, report them, as simple as that. why would Gromnir report? as we noted already, the rationalizations for piracy amuse us. you wanna play board mod? be our guest. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
213374U Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy...You mean you have other options outside of those two? So what are they? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 What I'm saying is that instead of having a long and fruitless off-topic flame war, do something about it or ignore it. So any impressions from anyone? Volo?
Aristes Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 As usual, can only skim. I'm one o' those suckers who always purchases his games. Anyhow, just popping in to say that I'm currently preloading DA on Steam. Looking forward to it. Now that I'll be spared, I'll bring some beer to the apocalypse.
Maria Caliban Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy...You mean you have other options outside of those two? So what are they? I'm not sure what you mean. I get the majority of information about a game from those who've played and (not) enjoyed it. I don't think a demo tells you how good an 80 hour game is at all. Oblivion was great for the first 8 hours. Assassin's Creed was good for the first act. Risen was great until it became a grind. I consider a demo a far poorer source of information than the opinion of other players or previous games from the same company. Edited November 2, 2009 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Gromnir Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) if people claim that individuals is "forced into a blind purchase or no-purchase situation" when speaking of luxury items... use as an explanation for piracy...You mean you have other options outside of those two? So what are they? your entertainment dollar or euro is extreme flexible. other games. movie, sporting events, naked mud-wrestling... whatever. take your entrainment dollar and spend elsewhere. available alternatives destroy notion o' force... is a pretty fundamental concept. and fact that this is a luxury item pretty much makes "force" a ridiculous notion. Gromnir were forced into a blind purchase of 2 Broadway show tickets 'cause the alternative were not seeing the show? HA! does demo make any less blind than available reviews? wait a few days for and no doubt you get genuine feedback from a trusted source. maybe you even get an opportunity to play on an acquaintance computer. regardless, notion o' "force" is silly in present context. overstatement for effect perhaps? or were it a genuine rationalization for piracy? HA! Good Fun! Edited November 2, 2009 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) ...Oblivion was great...There goes the thread. Bail out! Edited November 2, 2009 by Purkake
Volourn Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 There is no exscuse for theft inr egards to soemthing one does need. Making excuse for 'pirates' is silly as there is no worthwhile. Claiming they 'made you do it' or 'you were forced to pirate' is plain, and simple garbage. Thieves should be punished. Period. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Lare Kikkeli Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 There is no exscuse for theft inr egards to soemthing one does need. Making excuse for 'pirates' is silly as there is no worthwhile. Claiming they 'made you do it' or 'you were forced to pirate' is plain, and simple garbage. Thieves should be punished. Period. It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 There is no exscuse for theft inr egards to soemthing one does need. Making excuse for 'pirates' is silly as there is no worthwhile. Claiming they 'made you do it' or 'you were forced to pirate' is plain, and simple garbage. Thieves should be punished. Period. It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.
213374U Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I don't think a demo tells you how good an 80 hour game is at all. Oblivion was great for the first 8 hours. Assassin's Creed was good for the first act. Risen was great until it became a grind.And I don't think you have thought that through. Oblivion is the same whether you play 2 hours or 200, the game doesn't change and you get what's advertised - you get bored, but nothing the developers can do can change that. A good demo gives you a good feel of how the game plays. This is 100% subjective and no review can substitute that. your entertainment dollar or euro is extreme flexible. other games. movie, sporting events, naked mud-wrestling... whatever. take your entrainment dollar and spend elsewhere. available alternatives destroy notion o' force... is a pretty fundamental concept. and fact that this is a luxury item pretty much makes "force" a ridiculous notion. Gromnir were forced into a blind purchase of 2 Broadway show tickets 'cause the alternative were not seeing the show? HA!What the hell man? Isn't that what I said? The options you are left with are to purchase blindly, or not purchase at all. I'm not saying that automatically grants the right to download the game, or that EA is putting a gun to anyone's head. You are forced into that in the sense that no other options exist. Also, when they make 80-hour long plays, I'll demand they make a demo, too. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Volourn Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 "It's not theft, it's copyright infringement." It's theft. At 'best', copyright ifnringement is a form of theft just as armed robbery, piracy (on the seas), and pickpocketing are all forms of theft. Taking something - be it an object, or idea - without the permission of the owner/creator is theft. Plain, and simple. This is undisputable fact no matter what spin you use or what 'fancy' coded word you try to beautify it with. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) I really don't want to get into this, but the difference between theft and copyright infringement is that theft deprives someone of the stolen goods while copyright infringement doesn't. Before you jump to any conclusions, I'm not defending anything, just pointing out the factual difference. It doesn't make copyright infringement any better, just different. Edited November 2, 2009 by Purkake
Wrath of Dagon Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I really don't want to get into this, but the difference between theft and copyright infringement is that theft deprives someone of the stolen goods while copyright infringement doesn't. Before you jump to any conclusions, I'm not defending anything, just pointing out the factual difference. It doesn't make copyright infringement any better, just different. You can steal someone's work or ideas too. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Yes, but that would be theft, not copyright infringement. Hey, look, someone made an infographic on this very subject. Edited November 2, 2009 by Purkake
Volourn Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Theft is theft and copyright infringement is theft. The spinning of it doesn't impress. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Maria Caliban Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Isn;'t it time for a lock? "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Lare Kikkeli Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Sometimes, like when you really want something but can't afford it, theft is cool.
Malcador Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I thought it would have been a bigger download than what I'm hearing. Well hooray, means I won't murder my cap if I get it over Steam, heh. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
kirottu Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 In before lock! This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Purkake Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Theft is theft and copyright infringement is theft. The spinning of it doesn't impress. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just stating the facts, at least in America. Call it what you want, but specific terms have specific meanings. Edited November 2, 2009 by Purkake
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