Monte Carlo Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Y'see I agree with the point about saving per se, but I also like choice... choose to re-load and play the battle or choose to take a loot / XP loss. In almost every CRPG I've played there are times where I'd happily do both. I think a lot of players would be the same. Cheers MC
Maria Caliban Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) All RPGs ought to be as difficult as Blade of Darkness, or Demon's Souls. Not only will this provide meaning to l33t pr4nage of w00t proportions (to those capable to snacking on their fallen foes with eviscersauce), but it also serves a barrier to entry separating us elitist vets of hardcore gaming to the simian plebs of casual gaming. After all, only a retarded system rewards spastictude with advancement. If you can't handle the heat, learn to cook or get out of the kitchen. Unless of course, you're a woman. In that case, make sure my dinner's ready by 7PM. I'm hoping that I can teabag the archdemon after killing her. Y'see I agree with the point about saving per se, but I also like choice... choose to re-load and play the battle or choose to take a loot / XP loss. In almost every CRPG I've played there are times where I'd happily do both. I think a lot of players would be the same. Cheers MC Strange, I never took the loot/XP loss. I just reloaded. Sure, a battle might take fifteen minutes of my time before I beat it but money and XP are precious and never to be squandered. Edited October 19, 2009 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Monte Carlo Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I'm not a Deekin-hater. In fact, that and the death + loss of XP mechanic are probably the only two things in NWN1 I didn't hate.
Maria Caliban Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Deekin was a good character. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Amentep Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I liked Deekin; he made me laugh. I generally speaking have no problem with the XP/Money loss either. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
alanschu Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Strange, I never took the loot/XP loss. I just reloaded. I think this was the case in general.
Monte Carlo Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 ^ Mainly because resting was so darn easy. Scenario = get out of the dungeon after a massive battle - low hp, lots of loot in the bag, just levelled up. Random encounter - you get whipped. Personally, a lot of the time I'd be happy to take that one on the chin to get on with the game.
jaguars4ever Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Strange, I never took the loot/XP loss. I just reloaded. I think this was the case in general. And that was even well done in the greatest game of all time: PS:T*. For certain quest(s), you're expected to die and return to the Mausoleum. * I am aware that combat was its weakest point. But holding that against PS:T is like saying a h4wt butter-face isn't worth the lay. I say, just put a paper-bag over her head and be done with it.
213374U Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Irrelevant. There's still no penalty for failure. You just reload, right? If you're going to toss around that a game without permadeath has "no penalty for failure" then you're going to have to include every game that allows saving. The lack of permadeath is hardly akin to making games impossible to lose at. Semantics. AND misrepresentation. The choice to reload imposes a penalty: you get to repeat the segment where you screwed up, until you perform adequately. The choice not to reload has a penalty as well: the game becomes harder from that point on, due to the loss of a companion. Saving at any point doesn't nullify those, but a lack of that feature would undoubtedly make the game less forgiving (if not necessarily more difficult). However, the lack of permadeath doesn't mean there's no penalty for failure. It doesn't mean it's impossible to fail, either. The overall difficulty is lowered, though. Edited October 19, 2009 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Syraxis Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 * I am aware that combat was its weakest point. But holding that against PS:T is like saying a h4wt butter-face isn't worth the lay. I say, just put a paper-bag over her head and be done with it. Well said jasuars4ever, well said.
alanschu Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Irrelevant. There's still no penalty for failure. You just reload, right? If you're going to toss around that a game without permadeath has "no penalty for failure" then you're going to have to include every game that allows saving. The lack of permadeath is hardly akin to making games impossible to lose at. Semantics. AND misrepresentation. The choice to reload imposes a penalty: you get to repeat the segment where you screwed up, until you perform adequately. The choice not to reload has a penalty as well: the game becomes harder from that point on, due to the loss of a companion. Saving at any point doesn't nullify those, but a lack of that feature would undoubtedly make the game less forgiving (if not necessarily more difficult). However, the lack of permadeath doesn't mean there's no penalty for failure. It doesn't mean it's impossible to fail, either. The overall difficulty is lowered, though. Yes I know.
mrmud Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Y'see I agree with the point about saving per se, but I also like choice... choose to re-load and play the battle or choose to take a loot / XP loss. In almost every CRPG I've played there are times where I'd happily do both. I think a lot of players would be the same. Cheers MC The problem is that this kind of design can lead a bad player into a death spiral that he is unable to escape. Constantly having to take the loot and xp loss because he lacks the required loot and xp.
Amentep Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Y'see I agree with the point about saving per se, but I also like choice... choose to re-load and play the battle or choose to take a loot / XP loss. In almost every CRPG I've played there are times where I'd happily do both. I think a lot of players would be the same. Cheers MC The problem is that this kind of design can lead a bad player into a death spiral that he is unable to escape. Constantly having to take the loot and xp loss because he lacks the required loot and xp. Which can also happen if you lose an NPC in the fight (because you get attacked again before you can raise the character/find a replacement and lose another). I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Volourn Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Anyone who took the respawning option in NWN should be ashamed of themselves. You die, you should reload. As your character is dead, adn resapwning is lame because while you are full your enemies are not. Same with people who rest after EVERY battle in games like NWN, BG, TOEE, or what have you. LAME I do agree that the 'easy' setting should be just that - easy. Let's keep the hard stuff on the hard setting. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Amentep Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Anyone who took the respawning option in NWN should be ashamed of themselves. You die, you should reload. As your character is dead, adn resapwning is lame because while you are full your enemies are not. Same with people who rest after EVERY battle in games like NWN, BG, TOEE, or what have you. LAME I do agree that the 'easy' setting should be just that - easy. Let's keep the hard stuff on the hard setting. R00fles! Not ashamed at all. Because its a game. I mean if you're going to be all "I sleep on a bed of nails" hardcore, you should uninstall the game when your character dies, because your one portal into that world no longer exists. Anything else is LAME. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Volourn Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Your logic doesn't even make sense. " because your one portal " Unlike you, I don't live in Lala Land, and don't believe in the existence of portals into video games. Sorry. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Amentep Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Your logic doesn't even make sense. " because your one portal " Unlike you, I don't live in Lala Land, and don't believe in the existence of portals into video games. Sorry. And yet you do believe that restarting a game from a load point when you die is somehow "better" than allowing the game to respawn you with an XP/Gold loss. EDIT: And that belief seems to hinge around "You die, you should reload." Edited October 19, 2009 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Oner Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I think this Stone Prisoner trailer wasn't linked yet. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Geez, do we really need a wise-cracking golem? Don't we already have Alistair? Couldn't they make him more golem-y and less "I hide my deep dark past behind my wise-cracking facade, but deep down I cry myself to sleep every night"? Please tell me that at least Dog doesn't make bad jokes or have a dark past.
Oner Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 "Could you suffer through immortality without a sense of humor?" Or something like that. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Monte Carlo Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 ^ Unless I'm very much mistaken, Shale seems to be VO'd by Sean Pertwee. Which is a good thing, BTW.
entrerix Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) i dont normally do this, but i just preorded the game on amazon because of that 10$ credit. i buy a lot of games on amazon, and with the 10 credit and the 3$ off anyways, the game essentially is only costing me 36.99$ that's pretty neat for a brand new bigbudget game that i was almost certainly going to get this winter anyway now that alpha protocol is delayed. cool story bro i know. Edited October 20, 2009 by entrerix Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Recommended Posts