The Nobel Peace prize goes to Barack Obama

[Wrath of Dagon]

This is worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't pretend to know economics.

You can't win an argument when you're wrong. Go visit US and Finland, then we'll talk. Nothing lies like statistics.

[Humodour]

This is worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't pretend to know economics.

You can't win an argument when you're wrong. Go visit US and Finland, then we'll talk. Nothing lies like statistics.

 

*sticks fingers in ears* Lalalala! Maths is a lie! America is the greatest! Everywhere else sucks and I know I'm right because I live in America, and America is the greatest unless you're a kid trying to get an education (education is for pansy socialist Europeans!) or you're a dirty homeless or you're unemployed and can't afford critical surgery (it's because you're a commie!).

Edited October 13, 2009 by Krezack

[213374U]

Edit: Per capita GDP is skewed because of the value of the US dollar.

Uh, okay.

 

HDI 2008 is ADJUSTED to take that into consideration, genius.

I was talking about Krezack's per capita GDP genius.

GDP per capita IS part of HDI.

 

Lol, stop embarassing yourself already!

[Pidesco]

So how did you like Finland, Wrath of Dagon?

[213374U]

I guess Wiki is just too difficult to use for some people.

 

Here, WoD. Finally a link that supports your theories!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...PPP)_per_capita

 

If only slightly.

[alanschu]

They're pretty socialist as it is AND doing much better than the US could dream of(in terms of education, medical care, social benefits etc.), so take that!

I'm sure they're not doing better than US, you don't know much about US. What I meant was that they'd be part of the Soviet Union, not whether they're socialist or not.

They actually fought the Soviet Union and won. Look up Winter War

Finland ceded about 9 percent of its pre-war territory and 20 percent of its industrial capacity to the Soviet Union.

From your link. They won? It's amazing how ignorant you guys are. And Finland is more prosperous than the US? No wonder people keep posting such stupid posts here, talk about the failure of the education system.

 

 

The Winter War is generally regarded as a humiliating conflict for the Soviet Union because the Soviet Union had anticipated steam rolling the Finns. The Soviet Union attempted the total annexation of Finland and failed miserably, despite having ridiculously large number of troops in comparison.

 

If you actually read more than what you were looking for in that Wiki link, you'd have found great lines such as:

 

Soviet losses on the front were heavy and the country's international standing also suffered.

Finally, the Soviet forces did not accomplish their objective of the total conquest of Finland, but did gain sufficient territory along Lake Ladoga to provide a buffer for Leningrad. The Finns retained their sovereignty and improved their international reputation.

 

 

Based on the numbers, it should have been an overwhelming victory for the Soviet Union, considering the following:

 

The Soviet forces had four times as many soldiers as the Finns, 30 times as many aircraft and 218 times as many tanks.

[alanschu]

Soviets annexed Baltic states and invaded Finland before the war, and US did take various actions to protest those things, for example the Soviet Union was kicked out of the League of Nations, and of course there was the Cold War with the Soviets because of their post war behavior. You're the ignorant joke.

 

Edit: fixed quotes, "before the war"

 

The Soviet Union most definitely invaded Finland after the war. The Soviets invaded in November, but war started August 30th 1939.

 

Ignorant joke indeed.

[Wrath of Dagon]

This is worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't pretend to know economics.

You can't win an argument when you're wrong. Go visit US and Finland, then we'll talk. Nothing lies like statistics.

 

*sticks fingers in ears* Lalalala! Maths is a lie! America is the greatest! Everywhere else sucks and I know I'm right because I live in America, and America is the greatest unless you're a kid trying to get an education (education is for pansy socialist Europeans!) or you're a dirty homeless or you're unemployed and can't afford critical surgery (it's because you're a commie!).

Our secondary education is second to none. The problem with public education in a lot of places are the teacher's unions. If you're homeless, it's normally because you're a drunk. Health care is a problem here, I don't dispute that, but again, not for most people. If you're fairly intelligent and willing to work, the opportunities are virtually limitless.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Soviets annexed Baltic states and invaded Finland before the war, and US did take various actions to protest those things, for example the Soviet Union was kicked out of the League of Nations, and of course there was the Cold War with the Soviets because of their post war behavior. You're the ignorant joke.

 

Edit: fixed quotes, "before the war"

 

The Soviet Union most definitely invaded Finland after the war. The Soviets invaded in November, but war started August 30th 1939.

 

Ignorant joke indeed.

It was before SU was involved in the war, which occurred in June, 1941.

[213374U]

Soviets annexed Baltic states and invaded Finland before the war, and US did take various actions to protest those things, for example the Soviet Union was kicked out of the League of Nations, and of course there was the Cold War with the Soviets because of their post war behavior. You're the ignorant joke.

 

Edit: fixed quotes, "before the war"

 

The Soviet Union most definitely invaded Finland after the war. The Soviets invaded in November, but war started August 30th 1939.

 

Ignorant joke indeed.

 

He actually edited his post to "correct" that!

 

I feel my IQ has definitely decreased after this discussion. I'm calling it quits.

Edited October 13, 2009 by 213374U

[Pidesco]

I guess Wiki is just too difficult to use for some people.

 

Here, WoD. Finally a link that supports your theories!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...PPP)_per_capita

 

If only slightly.

 

 

I'm sorry but WoD cannot use statistics in this argument, You see, they lie. In fact, the way he proposed for one to discern the difference in prosperity between the Finns and the Americans is visiting the two countries and seeing for yourself. We can, therefore, assume that WoD has visited Finland, given his certainty on the subject.

 

 

Finally, with all this in mind I suggest we found the INstitute for ANecdotal Evidence to support this sort of evidence gathering.

[Pidesco]

Our secondary education is second to none.

 

 

[alanschu]

Soviets annexed Baltic states and invaded Finland before the war, and US did take various actions to protest those things, for example the Soviet Union was kicked out of the League of Nations, and of course there was the Cold War with the Soviets because of their post war behavior. You're the ignorant joke.

 

Edit: fixed quotes, "before the war"

 

The Soviet Union most definitely invaded Finland after the war. The Soviets invaded in November, but war started August 30th 1939.

 

Ignorant joke indeed.

It was before SU was involved in the war, which occurred in June, 1941.

 

 

That's a moot point. Numbers Man's context was clearly regarding World War 2, in which case the Winter War most definitely occurred during the war.

 

 

Lets not forget his original post that you quoted:

 

A pity you didn't apply the same equal opportunity humanitarian protection before the war (Italian invasion of Ethiopia), during the war (Soviet annexation of the Baltic states and invasion of Finland), and after the war (massive deportations of German civilians carried out by the Soviets).

 

Of course, if you wish to try to argue on behalf of academic dishonesty and misrepresentation of his comments in order to better support your viewpoint, then continue along your current course

[Wrath of Dagon]

The war was between Germany, France and Britain at that point. SU was not yet participating, but if you insist, I'll admit it's also correct to say "during the war".

[Aristes]

Yes, Finland is a titan of world politics and when the president of Finland speaks everyone stops listening to the president of the United States. Oh, and we sure as hell better hope the Finns never decide to invade because that small, rugged army will undoubtedly be the ruination of us all. They did defeat the Soviet Army, after all. ...And with no outside help. They also never received any aid from the United States after they were forced to pay reparations to the Soviets at the end of World War 2. Well, maybe they did, but that's just not worth mentioning. Of course, the Soviet Army of the late 1930s was almost identical to the Soviet Army at the end of World War 2.

 

I'm not much of a world war 2 buff. A little late in history for me. Nevertheless, I think folks are overstating and oversimplifying things in this particular discussion.

 

Finland is a great country with a noble history. They've done extremely well for themselves, as have their neighbors, and I don't begrudge them any of their successes. While folks describe them as socialist, they are indeed quite caught up in free market trade in the global economy, which means that the United States, as well as the EU and Russia provide markets for their exports.

 

Comparing the Finnish economy with that of the United States is perfectly legitimate, but keep in mind that it is a tiny nation with a homogenous population. I think Wrath is wrong to cast aspersions on Finland, but it seems that folks have gone overboard on the other side as well. I would think that Finns have the right to be proud of themselves, not only for their history, but also because they've done extremely well economically. That doesn't mean that Finland is going to step up as leader of the free world any time soon.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I didn't cast any aspersions on Finland.

[Pidesco]

No one is saying that Finland is a great military power, only that it's a more prosperous country than the US.

[Gfted1]

Only if that quid pro quo comes through will that be a valid statement...

 

Granted.

 

 

aaaaaaand the honeymoon is over:

 

MOSCOW

[alanschu]

The war was between Germany, France and Britain at that point. SU was not yet participating, but if you insist, I'll admit it's also correct to say "during the war".

 

 

In addition to Canada, Australia, and Poland (first as a sovereign state, then as a exiled government). You should probably also include South Africa and New Zealand, but they wouldn't have seen any troop deployments until after the Winter War so I won't be as picky about them.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I said Britain, they were all part of the British Empire, except for Poland, which was over so quickly I didn't bother to include it, unless you want to pick nits.

[alanschu]

Yes, all those countries were still a part of the British Empire all right

 

Of course, they were all autonomous and even declared war different times than Great Britain actually did. British Empire != Great Britain btw. Or even Britain.

 

 

You'll notice I didn't include India. Hmm, I wonder why.

Edited October 13, 2009 by alanschu

[HoonDing]

The war was between Germany, France and Britain at that point. SU was not yet participating, but if you insist, I'll admit it's also correct to say "during the war".

In addition to Canada, Australia, and Poland (first as a sovereign state, then as a exiled government). You should probably also include South Africa and New Zealand, but they wouldn't have seen any troop deployments until after the Winter War so I won't be as picky about them.

Yugoslavia?

[alanschu]

Yugoslavia was invaded after the Winter War had already started. February 1940 IIRC.

 

 

EDIT: I was way off >.<

 

April 1941.

 

I wonder if I confused it for when I would usually DoW Yugoslavia in my Hearts of Iron games

 

Don't know why I thought it was 1940, as Yugoslavia definitely fell AFTER France. Whoops.

Edited October 13, 2009 by alanschu

[Walsingham]

I'm not sure if I have the authority to do so, but I think I can say that 'British' in the 1940s would about cover the British Empire as well. Although it may be respectful to list Canada, RSAfrica, Australia and NZealand each since they were not obliged to send troops.

[Pidesco]

Now Brits were the ones who knew how to be imperialistic, back in their day.