Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 I have disagreed with GunFox in the past, but IMHO the first three paragraphs of his previous post are spot on.
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Same here. Eh, you can always download the game from Steam or somewhere else online. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Sannom Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Just have your game activate online with a unique CD key and register it to a specific name/account. They did it with Red Alert 3. I hated it. You have to check on the net to install the game and then PLAY the game even if you have the CD in the drive. When you happen to play in a place with a proxy, it makes the game impossible to play because there is no way to configure a proxy for this kind of software. So I say : first a disc check, and if unsuccessfull, an internet check, like that the people who doesn't need the disc can play without it. When Internet is needed for activation, it becomes the worst kind of DRM ever. I'm accustomed to playing with a disc in the drive, I mean I'm a gamer for ten years now, everyone who played that "short" amount of time is used to have a disc in the drive.
Oblarg Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Go the stardock route, no DRM save an online account requiring CD-key activation to receive future patches, which is not needed to play the game. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies
Deadly_Nightshade Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Meh, go with the Good Old Games method. As for discs checks, they're avoidable and retail is much better than digital in my mind (excepting something like Good Old Games, and then it's tied). "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Zoraptor Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 As someone who has dial up and capped 'broadband' if there has to be DRM then I far prefer disk checks, especially over something like Steam. An Empire:TW type situation where verifying your game caused some people to download the whole thing off Steam would potentially cost me around $300US (ie about five times the game's cost) in broadband bandwidth. While more suited for the DRM thread, I think it should be noted that SecuROM does not have a rootkit (when Bioshock came out I personally ran the checks necessary to prove it) and the current version performs only static checks, not dynamic ones. The current 'bad offenders' are FADE and nuTAGES, SecuROM- especially the disk check version- is relatively benign.
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Only because we bitched about it and started buying digital copies instead
213374U Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Just have your game activate online with a unique CD key and register it to a specific name/account. That is enough to keep joe shmoe from handing someone else his disk AND keeps gamestop from pawning your product several times (As they lack the account name the key is attached to) without annoying things like limited activations. Which is the real problem here. Unless there is some odd deal worked out, there isn't a whole lot of difference between purchasing a used copy of a game and pirating it. Neither one supports the publisher or the developer. Which are the two groups that actually matter. Lol, no. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Nepenthe Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Just have your game activate online with a unique CD key and register it to a specific name/account. That is enough to keep joe shmoe from handing someone else his disk AND keeps gamestop from pawning your product several times (As they lack the account name the key is attached to) without annoying things like limited activations. Which is the real problem here. Unless there is some odd deal worked out, there isn't a whole lot of difference between purchasing a used copy of a game and pirating it. Neither one supports the publisher or the developer. Which are the two groups that actually matter. Lol, no. Actually, I think the publishers might be making another rake at that. I kind of like the way Bioware's handling it, giving original buyers access to free 'bonus' DLC. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
alanschu Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Except for when they get so out of hand that they start frying high end optical drives. Starforce ruined at least three optical drives I've owned. Thankfully they wound up causing so many problems for developers and publishers that they've largely been dropped and the current software has been scaled way back. Really...
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Except for when they get so out of hand that they start frying high end optical drives. Starforce ruined at least three optical drives I've owned. Thankfully they wound up causing so many problems for developers and publishers that they've largely been dropped and the current software has been scaled way back. Really... I have a friend who lost 3-4 mid-quality optical drives in 5-6 years and he used them almost entirely for gaming, so really.
GunFox Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Just have your game activate online with a unique CD key and register it to a specific name/account. That is enough to keep joe shmoe from handing someone else his disk AND keeps gamestop from pawning your product several times (As they lack the account name the key is attached to) without annoying things like limited activations. Which is the real problem here. Unless there is some odd deal worked out, there isn't a whole lot of difference between purchasing a used copy of a game and pirating it. Neither one supports the publisher or the developer. Which are the two groups that actually matter. Lol, no. No ****, Sherlock. We know it's legal. It doesn't make it right or any less problematic. It isn't an issue when you have people directly selling games to each other. As that happens at a relatively reasonable rate. The problem occurs when you have major institutions issuing trade in policies so it happens in massive numbers. My point was that neither act supplies money to the developer. Not which one was legal. You know those limited activations which have been cropping up lately? They have nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with games being resold. So instead of getting a product you can install an infinite number of times, you are getting one with a 3 or 5 install limit. The problem directly affects every consumer on the PC purchasing these games. Edited September 4, 2009 by GunFox
alanschu Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Except for when they get so out of hand that they start frying high end optical drives. Starforce ruined at least three optical drives I've owned. Thankfully they wound up causing so many problems for developers and publishers that they've largely been dropped and the current software has been scaled way back. Really... I have a friend who lost 3-4 mid-quality optical drives in 5-6 years and he used them almost entirely for gaming, so really. "I have a friend." Seems everyone had friends that had serious issues all related to starforce. At least the other guy said it was his personally. Edited September 4, 2009 by alanschu
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 I've always been baffled that people actually do used games at outlets when it's pretty obvious how badly both buyer and seller are being ripped off vs. using a service like Half.com or amazon marketplace.
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 "I have a friend." Seems everyone had friends that had serious issues all related to starforce. At least the other guy said it was his personally. You're right, it would've been more persuasive if I lied and said it was me. Has it occurred to you that when "everyone" knows somebody who's had a problem, it might be a legitimate problem?
alanschu Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 "I have a friend." Seems everyone had friends that had serious issues all related to starforce. At least the other guy said it was his personally. You're right, it would've been more persuasive if I lied and said it was me. Has it occurred to you that when "everyone" knows somebody who's had a problem, it might be a legitimate problem? Or that they're full of **** and pissed at the DRM and were making a holy crusade against it. I've yet to see anything beyond anecdotes of the multitude of evil things that Starforce allegedly did to people's computers, yet it was pretty much discounted as being the sole reason for any problems for anyone's computer, and games that it was attached to. A lot of hoopla when CGW mentioned that it could run in PIO mode for an extended period of time, and suddenly everyone knew someone that was suddenly able to confirm that their optical drive broke because it was in PIO mode for too long, and hence it was Starforce's fault. I'm not sure how they were able to confirm this after the drive died, but it seems the entire world is more technologically apt than I am. The same way that "everyone" knows someone that ate a chicken burger from a fast food restaurant that had a tumor in it, etc. etc. It's almost become urban legend it was so frequent, yet never really to anyone that happened to be talking.
AlphaPro Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Oh, the good ol days of tomb raider 2. I have it installed on both my computers and still play it normally. Oh, i forgot to mention that i lost the disc 2 years ago. good ol days when DRM didnt exist. build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, but set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
GunFox Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 "I have a friend." Seems everyone had friends that had serious issues all related to starforce. At least the other guy said it was his personally. You're right, it would've been more persuasive if I lied and said it was me. Has it occurred to you that when "everyone" knows somebody who's had a problem, it might be a legitimate problem? Or that they're full of **** and pissed at the DRM and were making a holy crusade against it. I've yet to see anything beyond anecdotes of the multitude of evil things that Starforce allegedly did to people's computers, yet it was pretty much discounted as being the sole reason for any problems for anyone's computer, and games that it was attached to. A lot of hoopla when CGW mentioned that it could run in PIO mode for an extended period of time, and suddenly everyone knew someone that was suddenly able to confirm that their optical drive broke because it was in PIO mode for too long, and hence it was Starforce's fault. I'm not sure how they were able to confirm this after the drive died, but it seems the entire world is more technologically apt than I am. The same way that "everyone" knows someone that ate a chicken burger from a fast food restaurant that had a tumor in it, etc. etc. It's almost become urban legend it was so frequent, yet never really to anyone that happened to be talking. Three completely separate computers, two being desktop tower machines, one being a laptop, all had complete optical drive failures within 1 month of installing codename panzers. All different brand drives, all were quality drives (for the time), and one of the machines wasn't even in the same house as the other two. Replaced the optical drives in all of them at no small cost as well as reformatted. All optical drives worked fine until they were upgraded or the machine was mothballed. Also note that it was the third copy of the disc I had. Seeing as the first two were completely useless and refused to install. Had to go back and exchange them. Again, wasn't the drives failing, the problem was a common one.
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 So, Alanschu, the keystone of your argument is that you haven't personally had problems with DRM, ergo everybody else is making **** up?
Bos_hybrid Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 So, Alanschu, the keystone of your argument is that you haven't personally had problems with DRM, ergo everybody else is making **** up? No, it's that people love to exaggerate and bull****. At least that's what I get from his post.
213374U Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) It isn't an issue when you have people directly selling games to each other. As that happens at a relatively reasonable rate. The problem occurs when you have major institutions issuing trade in policies so it happens in massive numbers. My point was that neither act supplies money to the developer. Not which one was legal. You know those limited activations which have been cropping up lately? They have nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with games being resold. So instead of getting a product you can install an infinite number of times, you are getting one with a 3 or 5 install limit. The problem directly affects every consumer on the PC purchasing these games. And what "problem" is that? The developer/publisher being left out of the loop with regards to profit from a used single copy? I fail to see how that is a problem. That's like the RIAA suing for multi-million sums in reparations for alleged "lost sales". You cannot prove that people who purchase a used game at a GS would, were that venue unavailable to them, purchase a new copy from the publisher. Everyone likes a new product better than a used one, so if people are purchasing second hand games, there must be a reason for that, such as, woe is me, diminished interest. It's only a problem in your mind. I can see your point about limited installs being designed as a means to make resale more difficult, but considering that de-activation tools are provided by the publisher, it's a bit useless. So maybe the traditional publisher role is becoming obsolete. Take a look at Valve. They seem to have tackled this issue pretty well, by innovating and adapting their biz model. In a market economy, those who can't adapt, fail. Edited September 5, 2009 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Nepenthe Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 It's only a problem in your mind. Apparently, it's a problem in a lot of peoples minds. And when enough people think something is a problem, it becomes one, whether it really is 'problematic' by nature or not. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
213374U Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Apparently, it's a problem in a lot of peoples minds. And when enough people think something is a problem, it becomes one, whether it really is 'problematic' by nature or not.Your point? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
213374U Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Not quite. I'd say you're simply trying to up your postcount. You just need to be more subtle about it. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
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