New Game Show

[Morgoth]

I get my spirituality fix and happiness from playing video games. And eating Nutella. Thank you.

[Gorth]

I get my spirituality fix and happiness from playing video games. And eating Nutella. Thank you.

Help celebrate World Nutella Day

 

 

Can somebody tell me why most major religions seems based on fear? Maybe I've heard the wrong people talk about it over the years, but the threats of death and damnation and bad consequences of not following The One True belief ® seems to outweigh the possible benefits by a large margin. Almost like the IRS...

 

As for the gameshow, it seems like a bad idea. I might be a follower of Pragmatism, but It makes a mockery of what other people might believe in and unnecessarily so.

[Slowtrain]

I didn't say anything about atheism being stupid, but I can qualify the arrogant and depressing part:

 

Arrogance - There is a ton of stuff in this universe that I am comfortable admitting I don't understand. Most of the conversations I've had with atheists leads to them trying to explain emotions like love on a scientific basis, or why humans wage war, or feel the need to worship in the first place. These explanations always seem lacking to me, and I just find it rather pompous to think that everything can be explained by science.

 

Depressing - Religion serves a very real purpose. It gives people hope in difficult times, and it gives them something to look forward to, a reward at the end of the road if you will. What, exactly, is the purpose of atheism? Where is the greater good? When you are on your deathbed, is it going to comfort you to know that all your growth, knowledge, and uniqueness is going to be snuffed out for good? I doubt it, even Darwin was an agnostic in the end. I think life without spirituality is rather empty. This is a magical world, but only if you believe in it. I don't really want to know the brain synopses that are triggered and cause me to love my daughter unquestionably, I just want to enjoy it.

 

 

Not all atheists put forward scuentific explanations as the end all be all to the questions of life.

 

There are at least some atheists, such as myself, who simply acknowledge that many of life's questions have no answers, especially no warm and comforting ones. Life simply IS, and one deals with it as best they can amd tries to make it worth living for themself and others.

 

Hiding from the reality of life behind religion is comforting and simple, but it is still hiding.

[Slowtrain]

It has nothing to do with science, and it isn't a choice.

 

Yes, I agree with this part personally as well. Though we arrived at it somewhat differently, I think.

[Walsingham]

Can somebody tell me why most major religions seems based on fear? Maybe I've heard the wrong people talk about it over the years, but the threats of death and damnation and bad consequences of not following The One True belief

[Walsingham]

I just had a thought, and I'm hungover and hungry so bear with me if I'm being thick.

 

If scientific enquiry is about conducting experimental tests of hypotheses, and the construction of such trials becomes increasingly difficult in ratio to the degrees of freedom inherent in the system (n), then God (n = infinity) would be incomprehensible through science.

[Hurlshort]

That's interesting, I don't think I've heard so many people profess atheism without science before. I've always heard stories about people finding God towards the end of their lives. Now I'm sure there is some exaggeration there for religious propaganda, but it's an interesting story, for sure.

[Rosbjerg]

A priest once told me "when you are young, you might not want to associate yourself with God, but when you are old, you will be afraid that God won't want to associate himself with you." (poor translation from danish, but you get the jest of it)

 

I couldn't help but laugh at the subtle thruths in that..

[lord of flies]

I didn't say anything about atheism being stupid, but I can qualify the arrogant and depressing part:

 

Arrogance - There is a ton of stuff in this universe that I am comfortable admitting I don't understand. Most of the conversations I've had with atheists leads to them trying to explain emotions like love on a scientific basis, or why humans wage war, or feel the need to worship in the first place. These explanations always seem lacking to me, and I just find it rather pompous to think that everything can be explained by science.

Really? What a coincidence, I find it the height of arrogance and stupidity to claim that things can't be explained by examination and systematic study.

Depressing - Religion serves a very real purpose. It gives people hope in difficult times, and it gives them something to look forward to, a reward at the end of the road if you will. What, exactly, is the purpose of atheism? Where is the greater good? When you are on your deathbed, is it going to comfort you to know that all your growth, knowledge, and uniqueness is going to be snuffed out for good? I doubt it, even Darwin was an agnostic in the end. I think life without spirituality is rather empty. This is a magical world, but only if you believe in it. I don't really want to know the brain synopses that are triggered and cause me to love my daughter unquestionably, I just want to enjoy it.

Believing that 60+% of the world's population is going to burn in hell forever and ever = hopeful? Wrong.

[Hurlshort]

lord of flies is an expert on arrogance, so I should definitely listen to him.

[lord of flies]

lord of flies is an expert on arrogance, so I should definitely listen to him.

height of debate right here, resorting to ad hominem/red herring/dodging the question.

[Hurlshort]

lord of flies is an expert on arrogance, so I should definitely listen to him.

height of debate right here, resorting to ad hominem/red herring/dodging the question.

 

It might not really matter to you, maybe you enjoy typing this stuff out, but I don't take any of your posts seriously, you are kind of like a cartoon character to me. So feel free to keep responding to stuff I post, but know I will never respond to it again nor will bother reading anything you write anymore.

[lord of flies]

lord of flies is an expert on arrogance, so I should definitely listen to him.

height of debate right here, resorting to ad hominem/red herring/dodging the question.

 

It might not really matter to you, maybe you enjoy typing this stuff out, but I don't take any of your posts seriously, you are kind of like a cartoon character to me. So feel free to keep responding to stuff I post, but know I will never respond to it again nor will bother reading anything you write anymore.

Oh, look, can't back up his points so he resorts to random, nonsensical attacks.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Buddhism is the only organized religion that makes any sense.

 

Love thy neighbour? Turn the other cheek? Alms to the poor?

 

Oh yes, makes no bloody sense at all.

 

That is just one bit of Christianity, Walsh. Take it as a whole, not piecemeal. At the same time as Christians advocate love thy neighbor most are also spouting off bigotry when it comes to those who they think are living in sin such as gays and lesbians. While they are advocating to turn the other cheek, there are those among them that seek to start wars and hoping that Israel starts Armageddon. A religion is only as good as its followers.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne

[213374U]

At the same time as Christians advocate love thy neighbor most are also spouting off bigotry when it comes to those who they think are living in sin such as gays and lesbians. While they are advocating to turn the other cheek, there are those among them that seek to start wars and hoping that Israel starts Armageddon. A religion is only as good as its followers.

And blanket statements are only as good as the figures that support them.

 

Oh, right. You don't care whether what you post is true or not.

Edited July 7, 2009 by 213374U

[Blarghagh]

I didn't say anything about atheism being stupid, but I can qualify the arrogant and depressing part:

 

Arrogance - There is a ton of stuff in this universe that I am comfortable admitting I don't understand. Most of the conversations I've had with atheists leads to them trying to explain emotions like love on a scientific basis, or why humans wage war, or feel the need to worship in the first place. These explanations always seem lacking to me, and I just find it rather pompous to think that everything can be explained by science.

 

Depressing - Religion serves a very real purpose. It gives people hope in difficult times, and it gives them something to look forward to, a reward at the end of the road if you will. What, exactly, is the purpose of atheism? Where is the greater good? When you are on your deathbed, is it going to comfort you to know that all your growth, knowledge, and uniqueness is going to be snuffed out for good? I doubt it, even Darwin was an agnostic in the end. I think life without spirituality is rather empty. This is a magical world, but only if you believe in it. I don't really want to know the brain synopses that are triggered and cause me to love my daughter unquestionably, I just want to enjoy it.

 

I think you should look up the definition of atheist because these are not traits that define or are even required in an atheist. What you're talking about sounds more like combined evolutionist and transhumanist.

 

But since you're angling, I'll bite.

 

On arrogance: Obviously, you have never heard a proper scientific theory because all science is disprovable theory. It's one of the cornerstones of the scientific world; every theory can be disproven and is therefore never to be taken as some sort of "absolute truth". I fail to see how this is any more arrogant than "that omnipotent, all-powerful guy up there made us in his image, and this entire world is for US".

 

Also, somehow you seem to be of the opinion that science and religion cannot coexist. That's just stubborness, and I feel it's mostly on the part of the religious people. Especially Christians. I've never understood why Christianity as a whole has stubbornly denied all about evolution, for example. I can understand why they would object to the theory of evolution, or other theories around it. But the theory of evolution is just why evolution happens. Because this is what science does: it comes up with theories to explain certain facts.

 

And you only have to take apart a population of mice, put them in different environments and wait a couple of years to see that they have adapted. That's what evolution is, and it's a fact. I understand the whole theory of natural selection, and especially the bit about coming from monkeys, might rub someone the wrong way. But that's just disprovable theory. Denying facts you can clearly show as fact just makes you seem like a stubborn fool.

 

As for myself, I am an atheist but I do not take all science at face value as you seem to think atheists do. Science has been wrong far too many times to just blindly trust. The difference being that science, when proven wrong, just takes it like a man and doesn't stubbornly hold on to it's old ways. And as for major truths like "where we came from" or "how the universe started", I don't even think human beings have the mental capacity or imagination to even know these things. As far as I'm concerned, if a human being came up with it, it's probably wrong.

 

On depressing: If there is any, the purpose of atheism is to be confident in the fact that your life and choices are your own and not guided by some form of predestination that renders the entirety of your actions on this world pretty much moot because there was no real other way it could have happened. I expect that's what's going to comfort me on my deathbed.

 

Let me make one thing perfectly clear, though. I don't find it very depressing that there is nothing after life. I'm 21 years old, and I've already lived a happy enough life that I am thankful that I was even allowed it, because it was against such astronimically long odds rather than "an inevitability because that guy up there said so". I find everything MORE beautiful because it's such an amazing coincidence it happened to become this way. What makes a tree more impressive, beautiful and amazing? That it was put here for us to enjoy? Or that it managed, through millions of tiny coincidences that could have happened any other way, to even BE there for us to enjoy?

 

As an atheist I feel so incredibly lucky to have this life to live, because if one sperm had beaten me to it I wouldn't be here. And every day I think of how lucky I really am. I am happy that I am allowed to experience this growth, knowledge and uniqueness. And you know what? I don't need to have a reward at the end of the road. The road IS my reward. I'm not bothered that at some point the road is going to end. Because this ridiculous notion of an afterlife is what is causing the whole goddamned world to take life itself for granted. And that's why finiteness is not depressing. All this need for purpose, 'spirituality' and especially the - and I really mean this - SELFISH need for a reward at the end that takes these poor people's attention away from living their freaking life, that's what is really depressing.

 

EDIT: For clarity. As much as I can make it. Excuse my occasional ramblings.

Edited July 7, 2009 by TrueNeutral

[Gfted1]

Good post and IMO, a very interesting way to look at life.

[Hurlshort]

Well I seem to have really raised some ire with my post, but I can't help feeling folks are reading into my opinions a bit more than what is really there.

 

First of all, I'm not actually a religious person. I find religion fascinating, but I think it is a folly to commit to one form of dogma and call it an absolute truth. I consider myself a deist. It's not really something I can explain, why I believe in a higher power, it is just a strong feeling I've always had. It is comforting to know that most other forms of spirituality are centered around a single deity, but I don't believe my faith would be changed if most people were atheists.

 

Now TN asked me to look up atheism, and all it says is literally godless. That obviously leaves a lot of wiggle room for personal philosophies, much like the term spirituality or even religious.

 

And as for major truths like "where we came from" or "how the universe started", I don't even think human beings have the mental capacity or imagination to even know these things. As far as I'm concerned, if a human being came up with it, it's probably wrong.

 

This is actually a large part of my personal belief, and it may sound a little crazy, but I think we need to undergo a few evolutionary shifts before we can even come close to understanding the universe and the human "soul".

 

As I said earlier, I was surprised how many people came out to separate science and atheism in this thread, it is definitely a different way of approaching this age old question, and it has allowed me to think very differently about atheism.

 

Do I still think it is arrogant and depressing? I still see the potential to be so is there, but I see that same potential in religious dogma, so take that for what you will.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Agnostic, so I win!

 

... in my... not knowing...

[Blarghagh]

Haha. Being an agnostic is fine. If you're comfortable with not knowing, then power to you. I'm only comfortable with not knowing to a certain extent.

 

Well I seem to have really raised some ire with my post,

 

I think the people here just like heated debate. I know I've been guilty of getting far too carried away with debating on this board, occasionally to the point that I'm rather bothered with myself afterwards.

 

Not this time though, I just wanted to present my view as clearly as possible. I meant no ire. I also didn't mean to imply that I have problems with people being religious. Someone I consider one of my best friends is a very devout christian.

 

Disclaimer done.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Not this time though, I just wanted to present my view as clearly as possible. I meant no ire. I also didn't mean to imply that I have problems with people being religious. Someone I consider one of my best friends is a very devout christian.

 

All of those statements also apply to my posting in this thread and/or my life, so, yeah… I did not intend to sound angry – just, at the most, miffed.

[Killian Kalthorne]

At the same time as Christians advocate love thy neighbor most are also spouting off bigotry when it comes to those who they think are living in sin such as gays and lesbians. While they are advocating to turn the other cheek, there are those among them that seek to start wars and hoping that Israel starts Armageddon. A religion is only as good as its followers.

And blanket statements are only as good as the figures that support them.

 

Oh, right. You don't care whether what you post is true or not.

Oh, come off it. With people like Reverend Phelps and his ilk, Pat Robertson, Jerry Farwell, and where I live there are people like Keith Ratliff, Rep. Steve King, not to mention the position of the Catholic Church on these issues it is quite evident that the Christian agenda does not really support what it supposedly teaches.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne

[Blarghagh]

It's true, there are a lot of bigoted christians. People who missed the point of their own religion - I'm pretty sure "God" gave people choice so they could choose for him, not to have him forced on them as a law.

[213374U]

Oh, come off it. With people like Reverend Phelps and his ilk, Pat Robertson, Jerry Farwell, and where I live there are people like Keith Ratliff, Rep. Steve King, not to mention the position of the Catholic Church on these issues it is quite evident that the Christian agenda does not really support what it supposedly teaches.

You seem to have no idea what I'm talking about. And what's worse, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

A very vocal, very small minority does not warrant comments in the vein of those you made. That accounts for Mr. Phelps and other idiots.

 

The Catholic Church or, more accurately, the bunch of idiots who sit in their halls in the Vatican spouting off nonsense are a disgrace. They are, however, a minority as well, and do not operate or conduct themselves the same way your average neigbourhood Padre does. Those people are usually kind, hard-working folk that are involved with the community and an example of tolerance. I suggest you look up the meaning of that word.

 

But the bottom line is that for you it's easier to take the manichaean route and put everyone in the same camp with Phelps. So go on, show me proof that "Christians", or any other random group you feel like hating on today are "evil". You can't, and you'll go "but I don't need to prove anything to you", or some other similarly lame excuse. Same old, same old.

Edited July 8, 2009 by 213374U

[lord of flies]

You seem to have no idea what I'm talking about. And what's worse, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

A very vocal, very small minority does not warrant comments in the vein of those you made. That accounts for Mr. Phelps and other idiots.

 

The Catholic Church or, more accurately, the bunch of idiots who sit in their halls in the Vatican spouting off nonsense are a disgrace. They are, however, a minority as well, and do not operate or conduct themselves the same way your average neigbourhood Padre does. Those people are usually kind, hard-working folk that are involved with the community and an example of tolerance. I suggest you look up the meaning of that word.

 

But the bottom line is that for you it's easier to take the manichaean route and put everyone in the same camp with Phelps. So go on, show me proof that "Christians", or any other random group you feel like hating on today are "evil". You can't, and you'll go "but I don't need to prove anything to you", or some other similarly lame excuse. Same old, same old.

this is a ****ty post.

 

sorry mate.

 

"Ah, yes, the 'gay-haters' and 'anti-sex education factions' are a very small minority." That'd be why there is an entire political party in the United States which focuses heavily upon this? And why even "progressive" Obama has yet to pass any serious pro-gay reform? And why the official position of the Catholic Church (a centralized organism) is that homosexuality is a sin and so is using a condom? And why there is serious resistance to offering homosexuals equal protection from being beaten to death???