FO: NV

[Fionavar]

To our community at OBS, it is clear that there is a definite passion for this new title and we respect that. We also need to balance our relationship with Bethesda as significantly important. We have, therefore, taken some time and looked through the large 500+ collection of posts thus far and have found the three following categories that will hopefully allow us a larger breadth of discussion:

 

• Gameplay Mechanics
  
• Story & Plot
  
• Setting & Canon
  

 

This is an opportunity to have more thorough discussions. Each of these conversation must adhere to the Forum Guidelines. If any of the Guidelines are broached, especially in respect to disrespectful critique of Bethesda, a member will be placed immediately in Mod Status for no less than two weeks and will be issued a Formal Warning.

 

We do not wish to police or be authoritarian. We simply wish to find a balance to offer ways for our community to interact about FO: NV, while also respecting the reciprocal relations with Bethesda.

 

with respect,

 

The Mod Squad

 

Note: Previous FO: NV Discussions

• In the Waste
  
• Where did I put that part?
  
• The Waterchip
  

[Hurlshort]

I think we need some actual information before this thread will really be of any use. When do we get a preview?

[crakkie]

My biggest hope:

These are more story hopes, so I'll comment on them here.

 

a large and complex linear story at the expense of a plethora of sidequests.

It may not be Obsidian's forte, but Fallout's story would be better served by a series of quests that string you along in a non-linear narrative amongst the many subplots of the locations you visit, with only exploration, combat difficulty, and the withholding of information to guide you in a general path.

 

Lots of memorable characters with interesting things to say.

That they will surely do.

 

Choices in your actions that have serious, far-reaching, and unrecoverable consequences in the gameworld.

I hope they have enough time. And again, I hope the consequences are spread somewhat unpredictably to different factions and locations and don't just show up further down the linear narrative.

 

Also--small request to Fionavar-- could you change the topic's title to story, plot, and characters?

[Aristes]

I think we need some actual information before this thread will really be of any use. When do we get a preview?

 

Why? Folks speculate on story and plot without hard facts all the time. It's no different than tons of threads as regards other games before they hit the shelves.

 

If anything, putting forth ideas now is the best way to have any input. I doubt it will really make a difference. Of course, I doubt that our input will make much difference later either. As I understand it, Obsidian does a lot of brainstorming at all levels, so if anyone at the dev team looks at any of this and it makes an impression, you might actually make some difference.

[Hurlshort]

Well then, I suppose I suggest that they have at least one Bachelor party quest. It is Vegas, after all.

[Aristes]

Well then, I suppose I suggest that they have at least one Bachelor party quest. It is Vegas, after all.

 

haha I'll second that!

[entrerix]

bring on the legion!

 

ceasars legion are the group that run the remains of the strip, and their headquarters is in a casino where ceasars palace is IRL.

 

bring on more evangelical religious groups! all the games had them except fallout 3. (those atom bomb guys dont count -there was no quest/content/story)

 

raiders you can negotiate with! how intensely dissapointing was evergreen mills? a whole "city" reduced to just another dungeon - what a goddamn waste that was

 

more quests!

 

quests in every city!

 

quests from more characters!

 

quests that the outcome effects other quests!

 

multiple cities with equally valid but impossible to reconcile viewpoints!

 

choice and consequence! (blowing up a city shouldnt leave the questgivers alive - it should remove quests!)

[entrerix]

hey aristes you should repost that really long but good example of what you want from the town/city relations.

 

you know, the lake and the city and the village warlord

 

that was a great example of a region without cookie cutter villains and heroes, and i dont think many people got to read it as it got buried pretty damn fast

[Aristes]

Thanks, entrerix, I'll take that as a compliment and repost. Be warned, people, lest all this text make your eyes bleed.

 

I'd like minimal Super Mutant and Enclave presence, perhaps no more than rumors and hearsay.

 

I'd prefer no nemesis at all. Instead, the PC interacts with various factions to create his own story. To create a story with no single plotline and a lot of freedom, we should have at least five factions. Each faction can have it's own internal quest-lines and more complex quest lines relating to other factions. There's a lot of opportunity for the PC to decide which faction, if any, he wants to support and what methods he chooses to use.

 

1. Village Warlord. He's managed to claw out a stretch of crop land with just enough water to grow food and sustain the population. He doesn't really care about gaining more power, but he's willing to take what's easy. He's just not willing to risk what he already has in order to fight for more. Life is good for him personally and the people are generally within acceptable levels of discontent. Some of them chafe under his rule, but most remember days of anarchy, killing, and hunger. For now, the warlord is the better option. Sure, he takes too much and drafts even very young men into his army when his lands are threatened, but the community is slowly growing and even prospering.

 

2. Raider Warlord. The only thing that separates the Raider Warlord from the other bands of raiders that populate the wastes is that he demands and receives more discipline from his fighters. As a result, his raiders range far and wide with more success than the others. In fact, his band has become swollen from the ranks of the defeated. More than just a petty raider, the Raider Warlord seeks to establish a permanent base of operation, but the larger settlements have sufficient power to keep him on the run. Even worse than outside turmoil is internal security. His success has transformed his small, well trained band of raiders into a large, sloppy mob. The core of his band is still extremely loyal, and the Raider Warlord is crafty. He despises weakness, but he respects strength and intelligence. He will accept new members into his band and is particularly keen on finding an anonymous outsider who will be able to infiltrate any groups formed within the newer members of his army. If that outsider can be trusted to carry out clandestine missions in enemy territory, so much the better.

 

3. The City. The City is the place with all of the muscle. The leaders, a small group of 'council members' who represent various parts of the City, come to power in a variety of ways. Two areas have free elections, one has more or less universal sufferage while the other only gives a vote to citizens based on a certain amount of property. One is represented by the remnants of the brotherhood of steel in the City. One is more or less 'tribal,' although it is comprised of more than one actual family. The final voting area is represented by a local warlord and his lieutenants. The City has a lot of internal strife, but it has always managed to pull together to face common enemies. Currently, the Raider Warlord is their biggest concern and they've gone to great lengths to put spies in his organization. The Village Warlord is too remote and powerless to be much of a concern, but some elements within the City don't trust him and wish to see his outfit infiltrated at the very least and neutralized in way possible as the best course. The City is primarily interested in the Lake, but doesn't have the power to take it outright and has vested commercial activities that would suffer greatly if it tried.

 

4. The Lake. Lake mead has created a large community. Not quite the size of the City, it still boasts a variety of commercial endeavors, from farming to manufacture. The Lake is more or less a monarchy in which the nobles share power. The people have limited say in the form of large meetings that convene biannually. These meetings, Public Affairs, negotiate taxes as well as military and civil service. There has been some strife between the three branches of power, but things have gone relatively smoothly until recently. The current Queen took has shrewdly and stealthily started to reassert the monarchial dominance of political power. Nevertheless, she is still faced with a strong nobility that has lately managed to convince the general populace to side against her on many issues. There is a Public Affair scheduled this year.

 

5. The Swarm. Yes. It's finally happened. The Rad-Scorpion Swarm, descendants of the legendary rad scorpion King, has achieved a level of intelligence that allows it to transcend its insectoid origins. Now the Swarm plots and contemplates how it will approach humanity. In peace? ...Or in war? Right now, it bides its time. Waiting. Considering, like the King of old, its moves like pieces on a chess board.

 

There is a more or less natural antagonist in the Raider Warlord. There is a more or less sympathetic group in the City, although many folks will side with the Lake. Each faction has enough internal turmoil to support quests within its domain. The strongest internally is the Village Warlord while the weakest internally is the Lake. However, from an external view, the City and Lake are the most powerful adversaries. There isn't any one specific bad guy and there is plenty of opportunity for the player to choose sides and impact the world. No didactic overtones. There is a case to be made for every side. Certainly, the hardest to defend is probably the Raider Warlord, but I can make several cases for him now and that doesn't even take into account his characterization, which I still haven't considered. This is not so much a specific suggestion as a template of the sort of arrangement I'd like to see. Frankly, I don't want the Swarm, but it's just one idea for a non- human, super mutant, or enclave adversay/ally for the PC.

[Pop]

As with all other Fallout games, there ought to be a personal motive ostensibly driving the force of the plot. As with most RPGs the narratives in the Fallouts inexorably made out your reasons for striking out into the world as good ones - you had to save the vault, you had to save your village, you had to save your dad. I would hope I'm not alone in that I would like the personal motive at the heart of the Fallout story to be retained, but I would like it if the plot moved more towards the direction of Van Buren or Mask of the Betrayer - you're not out there doing stuff to save Location / Person X, you're doing stuff because your life is at risk. That opens up the moral universe of the game in ways that most RPGs can't manage.

[Aristes]

I'd like a personal motive, but I'd also like those motives played out in an arena where I'm not the primary player. MotB almost did this. Please note, I did not offer my post as some sort of actual fiction around which to build the damned game. I offered my post as what I would like to see in terms of factions and complex interactions that did not depend entirely on what the PC choose to do. In fact, the PC might impact a number of these situations by choosing not to do anything.

 

So, yes, a personal motive, but not necessarily even one of finding the water chip in order to save the vault or finding the GECK to save the village. How about, finding some food in order to save his ass? Meanwhile, he's in an area with honest to goodness factions and people trying to save their own asses.

[Pop]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

[Aristes]

Having someone send me somewhere to do something for them is okay. Giving me the option of ignoring them is even better.

[Oerwinde]

Every time Fallout sequels come up I bring up the topic of the lunar colonies. Fallout Bible mentions that they existed, but we don't know if they survived the war, I'd like to find out.

[Sharen the Exile]

I have nothing to worry about when it comes to the story of FO:NV. Obsidian's working on it = quality guaranteed. Poor Bethesda doesn't realize how bad will it look in comparison after Obsidian's NV is released Now waiting for more info!

Edited May 15, 2009 by Sharen the Exile

[TwinkieGorilla]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

 

true. i'd rather be playing Sanjuro, to be honest.

[Wombat]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

In the demo of Fallout, it was hilarious, though. As Chris Avellone mentioned in a relatively new interview, Van Buren was to have a twist in this scheme.

From RPG Designer Hates RPGs

While at Black Isle Studios, Avellone worked on Fallout 3 on-and-off for about six years, before it was cancelled and Bethesda purchased the rights. His vision of Fallout was also built on this idea of hate, specifically that he was sick of tracking down and killing the big, evil, bad guy.

Avellone realised that in all RPGs, the most powerful bad-ass in the world wasn

[Niten_Ryu]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

In the demo of Fallout, it was hilarious, though. As Chris Avellone mentioned in a relatively new interview, Van Buren was to have a twist in this scheme.

From RPG Designer Hates RPGs

While at Black Isle Studios, Avellone worked on Fallout 3 on-and-off for about six years, before it was cancelled and Bethesda purchased the rights. His vision of Fallout was also built on this idea of hate, specifically that he was sick of tracking down and killing the big, evil, bad guy.

Avellone realised that in all RPGs, the most powerful bad-ass in the world wasn

[Gromnir]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

In the demo of Fallout, it was hilarious, though. As Chris Avellone mentioned in a relatively new interview, Van Buren was to have a twist in this scheme.

From RPG Designer Hates RPGs

While at Black Isle Studios, Avellone worked on Fallout 3 on-and-off for about six years, before it was cancelled and Bethesda purchased the rights. His vision of Fallout was also built on this idea of hate, specifically that he was sick of tracking down and killing the big, evil, bad guy.

Avellone realised that in all RPGs, the most powerful bad-ass in the world wasn

[entrerix]

I'd actually like to hear gromnirs idea of what an intriguing idea is.

 

just because he's obviously a madman and is hopped up on mercury.

 

should be interesting no matter what.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kjarista]

I would really like it if RPGs weren't perpetually calling upon players to endlessly replay the plot of Yojimbo going into every goddamn town on the map. But I don't think there's any way Obsidz is going to avoid that.

In the demo of Fallout, it was hilarious, though. As Chris Avellone mentioned in a relatively new interview, Van Buren was to have a twist in this scheme.

From RPG Designer Hates RPGs

While at Black Isle Studios, Avellone worked on Fallout 3 on-and-off for about six years, before it was cancelled and Bethesda purchased the rights. His vision of Fallout was also built on this idea of hate, specifically that he was sick of tracking down and killing the big, evil, bad guy.

Avellone realised that in all RPGs, the most powerful bad-ass in the world wasn

[Gromnir]

I'd actually like to hear gromnirs idea of what an intriguing idea is.

 

just because he's obviously a madman and is hopped up on mercury.

 

should be interesting no matter what.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

am thinking that a world without elastic is intriguing. imagine having no elastic in underwear or socks. really.

 

genuine heroic sacrifice in a crpg is an intriguing idea. Player gotta make a sacrifice that he/she actually feels? is done rare in crpg and hardly more than a token sacrifice is made.

 

take focus off of protagonist and let story be told through development of villains and supporting cast intrigues us. is tough to write a story 'bout a good/evil/amoral/indifferent/mercenary who is a man/woman/ameoboid from Tralfgar iv that who may be stoopid/smart/friendly/arrogant/sarcastic/serious... etc. am understanding the whole dream fulfillment aspect o' the crpg, but you is working with an inherent terrible protagonist.

 

how 'bout create encounters and opportunities in game wherein the protagonist won't win.

 

is a few ideas

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gromnir

[Kjarista]

how 'bout create encounters and opportunities in game wherein the protagonist won't win.

 

There has been a long standing discussion in the MMO world about how many players just don't like to be held accountable for "bad" in game decisions. Conversly, almost, many players seem to want to play evil characters without suffering any consequences for doing so. Keep in mind here taht these players are probably not RPG players.

 

You see the result of this in FO3. Destroy Megaton and you can still complete the Survival Guide quests. Don't like being totally evil? There are ways to fix that in game.

 

The trick then, is to challenge RPG players and still have the game remain approachable to non RPG players.

[Slowtrain]

[ Destroy Megaton and you can still complete the Survival Guide quests.

 

 

TO me, that is just totally crazy. And I am not knocking on Bethesda here. I'm quite sure they did it because they knew if they didn't people would complain, and they probably just didn't want to hear it.

 

There are other games, like shooters, where consequences are not important (or even important at all), but in a crpg, I think they really have to be. It's waht roleplaying is all about.

 

Besides, since video games are infinitely replayable, you can always go back a second time and not blow up megaton and do the quests then.

[Kjarista]

[ Destroy Megaton and you can still complete the Survival Guide quests.

 

 

TO me, that is just totally crazy. And I am not knocking on Bethesda here. I'm quite sure they did it because they knew if they didn't people would complain, and they probably just didn't want to hear it.

 

There are other games, like shooters, where consequences are not important (or even important at all), but in a crpg, I think they really have to be. It's waht roleplaying is all about.

 

Besides, since video games are infinitely replayable, you can always go back a second time and not blow up megaton and do the quests then.

 

 

I agree with you here, but if the developer want to get good return on investment, teh game has to appeal to more of the market than the roleplayers, which has traditionally been niche.