FO: NV

[Gromnir]

now josh, let's be honest. you did say that it weren't "legitimate" to use vats. reimagine if it makes you feel better, but...

 

regardless, the importent point is that You seem to have overcome your personal prejudice. congrats. now you can move forward and make fixes without all those silly preconceptions 'bout how vats users weren't playing legit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps slight correction: actual word used by josh were "legit." head shots made with sniper n' such were only "legit" outside o' vats. should not have "legitimate" in quotes. our apologies.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gromnir

[Aristes]

I remember the conversation. What I'm getting from the current discussion is that VATS is clearly still in the mix for the game unless Sawyer is doing a head fake. If VATS is in the game, then it pretty much confirms the FO3 engine. I'm down with that... or up with that... or whatever is 'cool' these days.

[Syraxis]

VATS without slowmo (theres an HD version)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fpHAcUl-as

 

Should have been in the game by default.

 

Also: will this game feature epic mounts?

 

Edit #5,948: oh lawd I forgots teh link. I'm desperate for more info on this game

Edited May 15, 2009 by Syraxis

[J.E. Sawyer]

"It is worth noting that I believe there's some special critical modifier that goes on with scoped weapons fired "naturally" (i.e. no VATS). So if you do legit head snipes with the Sniper, Reservist's, or Victory Rifle, you tend to score crits a hell of a lot. With VATS... not so much."

 

From this you inferred that I think VATS itself is an inherently illegitimate style of play. I clarified this in follow ups, where I stated that there is nothing inherently illegitimate about using VATS, but that using VATS does make the game much easier than firing manually -- especially on console. I also said then, as I will say now, that I used VATS in real-time a lot. The only sniper rifle shots I pulled off manually were against unaware, usually still targets. I never had a personal prejudice against people who use VATS. It would be pretty odd if I did considering that I've stated consistently that I used it a-plenty.

 

EDIT: Hopefully my actual stance is clear even if my initial statement was not. Please replace "legit" with "manual" in my first quote and then read the rest of the stuff and hopefully that will clear up any remaining confusion.

[Gromnir]

"It is worth noting that I believe there's some special critical modifier that goes on with scoped weapons fired "naturally" (i.e. no VATS). So if you do legit head snipes with the Sniper, Reservist's, or Victory Rifle, you tend to score crits a hell of a lot. With VATS... not so much."

 

From this you inferred that I think VATS itself is an inherently illegitimate style of play. I clarified this in follow ups, where I stated that there is nothing inherently illegitimate about using VATS, but that using VATS does make the game much easier than firing manually -- especially on console. I also said then, as I will say now, that I used VATS in real-time a lot. The only sniper rifle shots I pulled off manually were against unaware, usually still targets. I never had a personal prejudice against people who use VATS. It would be pretty odd if I did considering that I've stated consistently that I used it a-plenty.

 

huh? you clarified the opposite o' what you suggest. you did say vats weren't fraudulent, but you stuck by the illigitimate stuff. made some ha-ha comments 'bout how silly easy it were to kill without vats.

 

"People who can't manually score a head shot against a still target in F3 or who can't build a character that can consistently score head shots in VATS have one thing in common: they are huge n00bs who should probably not play video games or operate a motor vehicle. I'm sorry if that attitude is disheartening to you."

 

etc.

 

am not sure if you really wanna keep this going, as you really did come across as condescending (at best.)

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

btw, "manual" does change tone and meaning o' your initial comment, but sadly that ain't what you said. 'course if it means you has gotten over your prejudice, am more than happy to pretend that you said "manual."

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gromnir

[J.E. Sawyer]

I feel confident that absolutely everyone in this thread can score a sniper shot against a STILL target (even on console) and can consistently score head shots in VATS (as you you yourself said in a previous thread, you can achieve this with a relatively small skill point investment). The reason I made such a brazen statement is because anyone can do that. Advance Small Guns to 100% (you can do this by 5th level, possibly sooner), put crosshair on motionless target, pull trigger. Unless they're way, way far away, the bullet will go exactly where the crosshairs are (ballistics seems to get tricky past a certain range).

 

Scoring headshots while a target is moving, that's another story. I could almost never land sniper rifle hits against moving targets outside of VATS. Same thing with the hunting rifle. Once dudes started running around, it was shotgun/VATS time.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Regular gunplay was akward, maybe it was just the lack of auto-aim (which is fine if used well) or just clunky controls.

[Slowtrain]

Honestly, I'd love to see VATS tossed out altogether and the FPS combat brought up to par with Fear 1 and STALKER: SOC.

 

But yeah, that's not going to happen, is it.

[Slowtrain]

Regular gunplay was akward, maybe it was just the lack of auto-aim (which is fine if used well) or just clunky controls.

 

 

I think disconnecting the % chance to hit from skill level would make a big difference. I just don't think that works all that smoothly in a first person action game.

[Jaesun]

Honestly, I'd love to see VATS tossed out altogether and the FPS combat brought up to par with Fear 1 and STALKER: SOC.

 

But yeah, that's not going to happen, is it.

 

I honestly wish they did that in the first place. It seems like the VATS system is too entrenched to really do anything to "really fix/heavily modify" it.

 

But who knows, maybe they might be able to pull something off.

[bhlaab]

VATS without slowmo (theres an HD version)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fpHAcUl-as

 

Should have been in the game by default.

 

What, you mean johnny mercer? Yeah, totally.

[Kefeinzel]

I can headsnipe moving targets outside of VATS , but that was my playstyle and I have lots of practice from never using VATS =x

 

BTW: bring back gauss rifle <3

Edited May 15, 2009 by Kefeinzel

[J.E. Sawyer]

I haven't tried using the sniper rifle much on PC, but I do take more manual shots in general on PC due to the mouse.

[Gromnir]

"The reason I made such a brazen statement is because anyone can do that."

 

and maybe also 'cause it were a rather brazen straw man. as you point out, "non-moving" does kinda limit the applicability in reference to your original statement 'bout head shots outta vats being the only "legit" variety.

 

regardless, if you has backed off original statement, then all is good.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kefeinzel]

I imagine using my MX revolution to headshot something is several orders of magnitude easier than using the x-box thumb nub.

Edit: spelling

Edited May 15, 2009 by Kefeinzel

[J.E. Sawyer]

I do not think that manually aiming instead of using VATS makes you any better or worse of a player.

[Kefeinzel]

man, I sure don't envy you for having to be diplomatic.

[Gromnir]

man, I sure don't envy you for having to be diplomatic.

 

yes, it is a burden for Gromnir.

 

oh, am s'posing you were talking to josh.

 

*shrug*

 

josh has gone complete undiplomatic on more than one occasion. in fact, some o' josh's most informative postings were ones that occurred after josh near complete abandoned pretense o' diplomacy. were some interesting stuff regarding actual obstacles facing HoW and how josh would do different if given second chance. the wotc and 3e ranger stuff were classic... though am guessing such stuff is verboten. is more than a few instances o' josh going sgt. hartman on some poor schnook who weren't expecting... am hopeful that high-profile nature o' this game Not makes josh too cautious. is always fun to see who is next to gets to play the part o' private pyle.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gromnir

[GreasyDogMeat]

Regular gunplay was akward, maybe it was just the lack of auto-aim (which is fine if used well) or just clunky controls.

 

The game does seem to feature an auto aim, atleast for the SMG/MG weapons which is fairly obvious if you go full auto and watch the tracers. The bullets seem to curve out of the gun towards a target. I don't know if all of the guns have this though and how much the small gun skill effects how much auto aim you get.

 

Unrelated - CrashGirl brought up a good point about flash lights earlier on. Instead of a flashlight though, how about bringing back the flares from Fallout 1? Would especially be cool if the ability to throw certain melee weapons returned and you could hurl the flare at enemies, setting them on fire.

[Kefeinzel]

so, since this is the gameplay mechanics thread, I suppose I should discuss gameplay mechanics.

 

1. Economy

I think it would be neat if FO:NV had some semblance of an economy, rather than the unrelated merchants in FO:3.

Perhaps let the player be able to transport trade goods from place to place and have different, fluctuating prices for each trade good in different places.

This could tie in nicely in a variety of situations.

 

2. Repair/schematics

Get rid of or EXTREMELY retard weapon degradation, and change schematics into more of a system where you can add on to and improve your weapon.

Think JA2, not bioshock.

 

I'll come up with more. Discuss.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'd love to see both the 'home made junk items into some wild super weapon' schematics return AND the ability to enhance your weapons, or pay for someone else to do it like Fallout 2. It would be nice too, if special weapons/additions actually changed the weapon model. It bugged me when you would find a more powerful or higher clip version of a gun, but it visually appeared identical to the 'standard' versions of the weapon.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I think the basic FO3 gameplay could be turned into a much more compelling experience than FO3, though a few innovations would be nice.

[Aristes]

No matter what Sawyer said regarding VATS before, it's clear that he's put a lot of thought into how it could be improved. What I've gotten from him so far sounds like a reasonable path for New Vegas, although I've not gotten much yet. Still, there's certainly enough to discuss.

 

I can see from where Gromnir is coming, but I don't think holding Sawyer's feet to the fire on an issue that came up so long ago serve any particular purpose assuming that his current posts clarify a position from which it is clear that VATS will remain a part of the game but that some effort will go into improving the VATS experience. Those are the salient points as far as I can tell.

 

I don't mind the engine in and of itself. Like many folks, I would like to see a dramatic decrease in weapon and armor deterioration. Moreover, like many folks, I'd like to see more options for crafting, including tampering with existing devices as well as creating new devices. If this game had a longer cycle, I might even look for crafting experimentation along the lines of spell, item, and potion creation in Morrowind and Oblivion.

 

I've jumped on board with the 'non-linear' crowd. At least, it seems to make sense, assuming that the writing in terms of dialogue, flavor text, and descriptions is well done.

 

I think bickering and Beth hating has actually improved by splitting the topics, and this is true even though hardly anyone either reads or posts in the story topic, which is sad. I'm afraid that they'll close it, but I guess it won't matter if no one contributes to it anyhow. *shrug*

[Gizmo]

I think bickering and Beth hating has actually improved by splitting the topics, and this is true even though hardly anyone either reads or posts in the story topic, which is sad. I'm afraid that they'll close it, but I guess it won't matter if no one contributes to it anyhow. *shrug*

Wait 'til the first scraps of story teasers get released... then the topic will light up.

[Gromnir]

"Wait 'til the first scraps of story teasers get released... then the topic will light up."

 

agreed. is some hardcore folks that simply hate everything, but am guessing that a majority o' people is waiting for something more than news that obsidian is working on fo:nv. is not much to be encouraged, disgusted, optimistic, enraged 'bout. at the moment, fo:nv is nothing more than the "prize" behind curtain #3.

 

...

 

am wondering who is monty hall in such a scenario?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps don't add no more skills. the world map idea actual has merit, but am not thinking that it is a practical use o' resources. maybe if there is a fo:milwaukee?

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gromnir