FO: NV

[Jaesun]

I agree that this was a problem in FO3 (and 1 and 2 for that matter) but it is a hard thing to balance. A better solution would be to simply limit the number of stimpacks a player can carry, that way everyone is playing in rougly the same ballpark. Players who spend points on doctor can get more use out of their limited supply than someone who doesn't.

 

THIS. I thought this mechanic worked well in Mass Effect... for the most part.

[Slowtrain]

I agree that this was a problem in FO3 (and 1 and 2 for that matter) but it is a hard thing to balance. A better solution would be to simply limit the number of stimpacks a player can carry, that way everyone is playing in rougly the same ballpark. Players who spend points on doctor can get more use out of their limited supply than someone who doesn't.

 

THIS. I thought this mechanic worked well in Mass Effect... for the most part.

 

 

It also has the nice side effect of making the doctor skill more valuable.

[Slowtrain]

Just look at the absurd amounts of ammo and meds my current (lvl 12) char is carrying.

 

This character hasn't even been trying to packrat or conserve stuff. This is just what she has accumulated over the coutrse of regular gameplay.

 

 

These kind of numbers completely devalue the worth of these items and make gameplay much less interesting.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2009 by CrashGirl

[bhlaab]

I agree that this was a problem in FO3 (and 1 and 2 for that matter) but it is a hard thing to balance. A better solution would be to simply limit the number of stimpacks a player can carry, that way everyone is playing in rougly the same ballpark. Players who spend points on doctor can get more use out of their limited supply than someone who doesn't.

 

That being said I think X/time approach to healing is better than an instant fix.

 

Hard to balance, sure. But first things first, stop putting first aid kits every 5 feet.

 

Meds and Ammo should definitely have weight to limit the amount you can carry.

 

Things need to be much more expensive in general, especially stimpacks. Give the Barter skill a reason to exist!

[Slowtrain]

I agree that this was a problem in FO3 (and 1 and 2 for that matter) but it is a hard thing to balance. A better solution would be to simply limit the number of stimpacks a player can carry, that way everyone is playing in rougly the same ballpark. Players who spend points on doctor can get more use out of their limited supply than someone who doesn't.

 

That being said I think X/time approach to healing is better than an instant fix.

 

Hard to balance, sure. But first things first, stop putting first aid kits every 5 feet.

 

Meds and Ammo should definitely have weight to limit the amount you can carry.

 

Things need to be much more expensive in general, especially stimpacks. Give the Barter skill a reason to exist!

 

 

I vote yes for all of the above.

 

Especially meds and ammo having weight. That would really change things.

 

 

I should also point out that my current char has over 10000 caps in addition to all that junk. And only a 25 barter skill. Barter skill doesn't have much purpose when there is that much wealth in the game.

 

A little post-nuclear scarcity would be a welcome addition to the gameworld.

[Undecaf]

I agree with the few posts above.

 

On the issue of spamming stimpaks...

 

How about animating it? Each injection does take its time.

 

And

 

Limit the usage. Only so many stims/certain amount of time.

 

All this could be statdriven - how many stims in a row, how long you have to wait before doing it again.

 

Overusing could even have some consequenses...

[Aristes]

If the stimpacks had been heal over time in the first place, I would have been fine. If they change now, I'll be fine also because I tend to be forgiving of things like that, but changing the rules in the middle of the game is going to irk some folks. That being said, if it's done well enough, players will adapt. This is especially true if the design team gets them used to the idea early without killing them and if combat is tooled around the idea. Fallout 3 is built to have folks rush in without a care. If FO:NV can provide more tactical combat out of the gate and get the player accustomed in time, it might be a net plus rather than minus for folks used to Fallout 3 and might also set up better tactical combat for folks who experience the Fallout 3 playstyle for the first time.

[Aristes]

Limiting usage, in my opinion, is so far out from the drift of the whole series that it changes the entire idea of stimpacks. It's not just 3 that encourages stimspamming. In fact, both one and two are guilty as hell in that regard. I won't hate limiting use, but I think it would suck more than heal over time. In fact, I'm completely against it. Like I said earlier, I won't 'refuse to play the game,' but I think limiting use will suck.

 

Item scarcity, however, is good. I imagine Obsidz will balance scarcity better at any rate.

 

BTW: Yeah, I double posted.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Aristes

[bhlaab]

Yeah, oblivion had a max potion limit didn't it?

 

Some other mods for the team to look into if they haven't already:

 

NPCs use Ammo

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7498

 

Real Injuries

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=834

 

Explosive Entry

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2917

 

Phalanx Followers

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/search.php

 

Run & Gun AP

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7721

 

SPECIAL Extended

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8037

 

Finally Turnbased (ahem)

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4446

Edited August 2, 2009 by bhlaab

[Undecaf]

Limiting usage, in my opinion, is so far out from the drift of the whole series that it changes the entire idea of stimpacks. It's not just 3 that encourages stimspamming. In fact, both one and two are guilty as hell in that regard. I won't hate limiting use, but I think it would suck more than heal over time. In fact, I'm completely against it. Like I said earlier, I won't 'refuse to play the game,' but I think limiting use will suck.

 

Item scarcity, however, is good. I imagine Obsidz will balance scarcity better at any rate.

 

BTW: Yeah, I double posted.

 

You're probably right about limiting the usage... Just a thought anyway.

 

But I wouldn't mind if I wasn't able to spam stims, regardless of being able to in all 3 games earlier. That's why I suggested animating the usage.

[Aristes]

I guess animating the usage isn't limiting it, though. I mean, it effectually does because it introduces time to the equation, but it doesn't say "thou shalt only be able to use three stimpacks per battle." Animating, because I see it as essentially the same thing as heal over time, only tricky, doesn't bug me as much as what I had considered 'limiting use.' You know?

[Undecaf]

I guess animating the usage isn't limiting it, though. I mean, it effectually does because it introduces time to the equation, but it doesn't say "thou shalt only be able to use three stimpacks per battle." Animating, because I see it as essentially the same thing as heal over time, only tricky, doesn't bug me as much as what I had considered 'limiting use.' You know?

 

Understood

 

I just find the quick key mashing a bit lame solution. Hence I'd like a bit more tactics in the game via healing solution that doesn't - at least not fully - support Rambo (not saying that Rambo needs any support anywhere or anytime, but just a figure of speech or something).

[HoonDing]

The animation system for healing is a good idea (it's like that in Gothic & Call of Cthulhu). It could even be tied to the Medicine skill --- the higher your medicine skill, the less time it costs to apply.

[Slowtrain]

The Witcher animated potion drinking which definitely affected how one went about using them in the middle of combat. You could swig two or three in a row but each one took up valuable time to consume. Also had the toxicity concept which was another limiter.

 

I think the biggest problem with stimpacks is they are just too easy to use, too easy to get massive free heal with no consequences. TH e only issue with stimpacks is making sure you are carrying enough in inventory at any given time.

 

 

This has always been a problem with stimpacks in the Fallout games, not just in FO3.

[bhlaab]

I'm not convinced that the limiting factor should be HOW the stimpacks are used, but rather that they are so rare you want to save them for when you need them

[TwinkieGorilla]

I'm not convinced that the limiting factor should be HOW the stimpacks are used, but rather that they are so rare you want to save them for when you need them

 

i agree with my whole heart and groin.

 

if you think back to either FO1 or 2 (or just replay them, don't take *my* word for it) you'll see how scarce AND how expensive they are. your character barely has any scratch and what little he does gain is from busting his ass on side-quests. well, after all those side-quests you then have to make a decision between a leather jacket (better than nothing) some rad-away or a single stimpack IF you could even afford any of it. this was always the most intriguing part of the game to me. those beginning minutes, hours, days, whatever...when you had to really think about how you were going to approach the world around you.

[Syraxis]

you'll see how scarce AND how expensive they are. your character barely has any scratch and what little he does gain is from busting his ass on side-quests.

 

Or murdering two merchants in The Den

[GreasyDogMeat]

I agree with the few posts above.

 

On the issue of spamming stimpaks...

 

How about animating it? Each injection does take its time.

 

And

 

Limit the usage. Only so many stims/certain amount of time.

 

All this could be statdriven - how many stims in a row, how long you have to wait before doing it again.

 

Overusing could even have some consequenses...

 

Agree about animating their use. Playing Far Cry 2 and when injured you have to inject yourself with morphine (brings up the morphine, flicks off cap and injects, could just as well be dropped in Fallout 3).

 

I don't really mind that ammo and stims don't weigh anything in Fallout 3, but I do think there should be an amount limit per item. Say 50 stim packs and then you can't carry anymore until you use some up or drop some off at home base. Ammo, maybe could only carry 50 shotgun shells at once, couple hundred SMG rounds etc. By the end of the game I'm running around with thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition for every weapon and 300+ stims.

Edited August 3, 2009 by GreasyDogMeat

[Tagaziel]

Simple solution: add weight to ammo and stimpacks.

 

Artificially imposed numerical limit is sillay.

[Aristes]

I tend to agree. From what I can tell, stimpacks haven't weighed anything in any of the games. I think putting a minor weight on them, the smallest increment, and the thinning out the supply will help. yeah, it's only stop gap because players will end up with plenty of extra stimpacks and other supplies by the endgame, especially on subsequent runs, but it would make the early to mid-game more challenging without being stupid about it.

 

Frankly, I would be happy if they kept stimpacks exactly as they are and then cut down on the available stimpacks. In terms of impact on the fans, that's probably the easiest thing to do since they will function entirely the same and they'll simply find that they have to be a bit more conservative with use. ...That and the fact that, ol' skoolers be damned, the early game in Fallout 3 could be tough on resource management. The problem is that there are sooo many stimpacks available and that was also true of Fallout 2 as well. Fallout is a little tougher in that regard, but it's not like I'm sweating bullets over finding enough stimpacks in my current game of Fallout, and this is the first game I've had a big party with me. I'm healing the dog and two mules... er... I mean NPCs.

 

Personally, I think stimpacks could be left completely and utterly alone and it would be just fine. Maybe the design team can work with the idea in order to make them more interesting during gameplay, but they're no more broken now than they have always been.

[jero cvmi]

I'm glad sawyer and the other devs are looking for a solution to stimpak exploitation. It keeps my hopes up that they're actually trying to make a more tactical game than fallout 3.

I like the idea of healing over time, i'm playing KOTOR2 atm and i like the system, adds challenge and tactic to the fighting.

 

Sure, scarcity is the most important issue with stimpaks (as with everything else in a game that's set in a *wasteland*), and that's why in fallout 1 and 2 using stimpaks didn't feel like cheating as much as in fallout 3, but it was a little lame in all 3 games nevertheless. You could just open your inventory and inject 10 stimpaks at a time, without any penalty. But at least in the previous games you had to scavenge and preserve, at least early on.

 

I think action points cost and weight would help a lot, but i'd like healing over time as well. Getting addicted to stimpaks is another idea.

 

Also: what happened to the super stimpaks in fallout 3? i didn't play it too long, but i didn't come across any. Are they in there or did they cut them out too? I loved the delayed damage, it made you spend them carefully.

[Aristes]

I don't recall any super stims in Fallout 3. You really didn't need any considering the fact that you could simply use tons of regular stims without any drawback. I've often wondered why they didn't make stimpacks addictive. That would have solved a lot of the problem with the whole series. The only thing I can think is they tried a variety of things and finally threw in the towel and decided to implement them as we know them now.

[TwinkieGorilla]

the super-stims approached the idea of benefit/detriment very well. that's something else that could be used in FO:NV as a solution to S'ploitation!

[J.E. Sawyer]

Also: what happened to the super stimpaks in fallout 3?

There are no super stimpaks in out-of-the-box Fallout 3.

[entrerix]

adding weight and scarcity to stimpacks would solve the issue in my opinion. right now I think you find 10x more than is whats appropriate. when I leave the vault at the beginning I should have 5, not 50. at the end of the game I should have 100, not 1000.

 

adding the weight would limit carrying 1000 anyway. I changed my game to make them heal 1/10th of what they used to, it was easier for me to do that than to make finding them more rare. I do not want to have to do something that stupid in FO:NV for me to feel challenged.

 

The other change I LOVE is tripling the amount of rads everything gives. With stimpacks being near useless I have to use water as my main source of healing, and now I actually need to use those rad-aways.

 

sleeping should not heal at all.