Fallout 3 Spoilers

[Moatilliatta]

Advancing past the 3-dog quest in the main story means that you can still do his quest but get a different reward that is unrelated to the main quest.

 

I think everything has been mentioned besides that.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I don't do any of Three Dogs requests. I usually have high Charisma were I can get around that.

 

The problem with this game was said above. You can go around potential important parts of the main quest and still do it. You can avoid going to see Three Dog and Rivet city and just head out to Vault 112. That is sloppiness on a game designers part IMO. That shouldn't happen.

[Hurlshort]

I don't do any of Three Dogs requests. I usually have high Charisma were I can get around that.

 

The problem with this game was said above. You can go around potential important parts of the main quest and still do it. You can avoid going to see Three Dog and Rivet city and just head out to Vault 112. That is sloppiness on a game designers part IMO. That shouldn't happen.

 

I remember reading a post that said "Don't go in Vault 112 until you want to end the game!" and that kept me out of trouble. I actually like the fact you can skip parts of the main quest, it makes it feel like you are naturally stumbling upon the path of your father.

[Tigranes]

It *is* in Fallout tradition.

[Starwars]

I thought that was one of the better thing about the main quest (maybe the only one actually). It's just a shame that the writing somewhere (I think it might be in Vault 112) assumes that you went to Rivet City beforehand.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

So wait, if I went into Vault 112 does that limit certain quests, or...?

[Slowtrain]

I actually like the fact you can skip parts of the main quest, it makes it feel like you are naturally stumbling upon the path of your father.

 

 

Normally, I would agree with this. However, upon stumbling upon Vault 112 by accident and completing the quest inside:

 

1) I was getting dialogue options with my father that were referencing information that I had never learned and things I had never done. This made me nervoous that the game was not REALLY desgigned for this to happen. AT the very least, Bethesda obviously couldn't be arsed to put in some simple checks to see if my character had ever even done those things and then at least EXPLAINED them to me so I woudl know what the heck I was supposed to have done.

 

In other words: Yes, its great that you kind find your father by accident; it's bad that Bethesda appeared to not care enough to actually account for the differences in doing it that way vs following the main story line.

 

2) The first time through the game I don't want to miss the "story events" no matter how crummy they are. Especially since, as I have come to understand, the main story is "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" short.

Edited March 19, 2009 by CrashGirl

[CoM_Solaufein]

See that is a big flaw on the developers part. If you are going to skip the events that lead to B then have your characters not speak like you did the events any way. All you have to do is set conditions in the dialog and if they are not met, then they would say a different dialog.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Found Dogmeat, who was quickly killed by the first Deathclaw I see yet. I proceded to his funeral (which included being lit on fire). Shortly afterwards three Deathclaws showed up.

 

Looks like I get to see him again.

[~Di]

...By the way, the endgame is faaairly obvious. It's after a very big explosion...

 

I'm not sure why you chose to say that, since I obviously know, unless you are trying to make fun of me? I also know that when said big explosion happens, the game abruptly ends and you cannot go back to do any quests you may have missed. Hence the warning, because if you haven't played the main plot before, you might end up doing quests which lead to this supprising big bang before you are ready. Which is what happened to me in my first game. I was just trying to be helpful.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Well I've been playing around with The Pit DLC, I didn't get it but a friend did and I have her copy of Fallout 3 on my external hard-drive at the moment, and it is, so far, extremely well done - if you got the last DLC this one blows it away.

[Slowtrain]

I let the ghouls into Tenpenny Tower.

 

 

Although it was a wonderful bit of mayhem on the part of Bethesda, I was surprised to find it a negative karma act. Has anybody down the opposite and hunted down the ghouls and killed them? Is that a positive karma act?

 

Is it possibe to resolve the situation peacefully, even if you have a low speech skill? I tried to convince some of the residents, but with my low speech, there was no way I Was going to be able to do so. But maybe I missed a peaceful resolution option that was not dependent on speech?

 

Edited April 1, 2009 by CrashGirl

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Is that a positive karma act?

 

No.

 

Is it possibe to resolve the situation peacefully...

 

No.

[Slowtrain]

So even just getting involved in any resolution lowers your karama regardless?

 

Interesting.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

So even just getting involved in any resolution lowers your karama regardless?

 

IIRC, yes. There is no "good" ending that benefits both sides.

[Tagaziel]

Unless you negotiate the ghouls' entry into the tower peacefully and then somehow manage to axe Roy Philips. This usally turns Mike Masters hostile, so you're saving the tower (minus Tenpenny) at the cost of two ghoul lives, one scumbag and one decent guy (and shopkeeper).

[Tagaziel]

Quests in Oblivion were exclusively fetch or kill quests. Fallout 3 has quests with multiple solutions and different outcomes.

 

Dear sir, I do believe that you are speaking to us out of thine posterior, at least in regards to the quest complexity. While I do agree, dear sir, that Fo3's quest assigments are a superb improvement on Oblivion, their complexity is not, in the slightest, on the level of Fallout 1.

 

The following post has originated on NMA, in response to a claim that Fo1's quest were more primitive than those of Fallout 3.

 

Fallout:

 

Vault 13:

 

1. Calm the rebel faction.

 

Quest can only be completed by talking to Theresa and convincing her that the OVerseer is right. Killing them is not desirable, as it gives no experience.

 

Plus, a consequence is, if you don't complete it within the first 100 days, the rebel faction deserts the vault.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

1. Destroy the Mutant leader.

 

Assassinate the Master:

 

1. Diplomat: Infiltrate the base and convince the Master that his plan is a failure.

2. Infiltrator: Sneak into the Cathedral, activate the nuke and get out.

3. Rambo: Slaughter everything and everyone.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Destroy the source of the Mutants.

 

1. Diplomat: Infiltrate the base and hack the self-destruct sequence.

2. Infiltrator: Sneak into Mariposa, hack/blow up the self destruct console.

3. Rambo: Slaughter everything and everyone.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Find the Water Chip.

 

Largely depends on the way you play. The above three paths apply, plus you have to locate it on your own with some detective work and even there you have the three Diplomat/Infiltrator/Rambo options to choose from: talk your way through Harry, sneak by him or kill him outright.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

5. Find the Water Thief.

 

Guard duty, you can either convince the thief to turn himself in for 1000 XP or kill him for half the amount.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Shady Sands

 

1. Rescue Tandi from the Raiders.

 

A seemingly simple quest with multiple solutions:

 

Diplomat:

 

1. Appear to be Garl's father and convince him to release Tandi.

2. Threaten him to release the girl.

3. Buy Tandi out.

 

Rambo:

 

1. Fight Garl mano-a-mano

2. Slaughter everyone.

 

Infiltrator:

 

1. Sneak in, unlock her cell dor, sneak out with Tandi.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

2. Stop the Radscorpions.

 

A simple quest.

 

All chars:

 

1. Slaughter all scorpions.

2. Blow up the cave entrance.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

Junktown

 

1. Rescue Sinthia.

 

A hostage situation with a crazy raider.

 

Diplomat:

 

1. Talk him out of the situation and make him leave Junktown.

 

Rambo:

 

1. Slaughter the rat bastard (Sinthia hates you afterwards)

 

Infiltrator:

 

1. Sneak up and knock him out.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

2. Stop Gizmo

 

A complex quest.

 

Diplomat:

 

1. Record Gizmo, take the evidence to Killian then off him according to law.

 

Rambo:

 

1. Slaughter Gizmo and Izo. You are exiled from Junktown, though.

 

Infiltrator:

 

1. Plant the bug on Gizmo, then proceed according to the Diplomat path.

 

Visionary:

 

1. Screw Killian over and assassinate him and/or leave town, so that Junktown prospers under Gizmo's careful guidance.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Bust the Skulz gang.

 

A seemingly simple quest, ending up in the removal of undesirables from Junktown.

 

Diplomat:

 

1. Pose as a gang wannabe, steal Neal's urn then rat the gang out to the guards and dispose of them.

 

Rambo:

 

1. Slaughter every gang member. You're exiled from Junktown afterwards.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

The Hub:

 

1. Dispose of Jain.

 

Hired hit.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Dispose of merchant.

 

Another hired hit.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

3. Find the missing caravans.

 

A major quest which is focused on acquiring information, not shooting stuff up and sifting through the ashes.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Steal necklace from the Merchants.

 

Thieves' Circle initiation quest. Requires high infiltrating skills and a bit of luck.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Necropolis:

 

1. Destroy the Super Mutants at the Watershed.

 

Straightforward.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Fix the Necropolis water pump.

 

A quest requiring a bit of thought and exploration, definitely not a trigger finger (although it helps).

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Brotherhood

 

1. Become an Initiate.

 

You need to ge to the Glow and bring back the ancient tape. But it requires a bit of thought and planning.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

2. Rescue Initiate from the Hub.

 

Slaughter his captors!

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

Boneyard

 

1. Fix hydroponics plant.

 

A simple FedEx quest. Complicated by Deathclaws, of course.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Adytum.

 

An interesting quest that has a bit of approaches:

 

1. Get weapons for the Blades and duke it out with the Regulators, optionally with support from armed Adytowners (planting weapons on them in advance)

2. Get the tape to Jon Zimmerman and duke it out alone.

3. Assassinate the Regulators one-by-one.

4. Kill the Blades off on Regulator behalf.

 

End sum:

 

13 complex quest and 6 simple. Your argument is therefore invalid.

 

Let's examine Fallout 3:

 

1. Escape!

 

Kill your way out of Vault 101.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes

 

2. Following in His Footsteps

 

Get info about your dad from Megaton.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Galaxy News Radio

 

Get to GNR, slaughter supermutants on the way.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

4. Scientific Pursuits

 

Find Dad's holotapes to get to Vault 112

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

5. Tranquility Lane

 

Liberate Dad from Braun.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

6. The Waters of Life

 

Slaughter Supermutants in the Memorial, then press buttons. Then watch the Enclave arrive, kill some Enclave, watch your dad die, then escape through the sewers killing more people on the way.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

7. Picking up the Trail

 

Find a computer in the Citadel and activate it.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

8. Rescue from Paradise

 

Get some kids out of Paradise Falls.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

9. Finding the Garden of Eden

 

Get into Vault 87 and get the GECK. Slaughter everything that moves on the way.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

10. The American Dream

 

Meet the President, slaughter Enclave troopers on the way.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

11. Take it Back!

 

Slaughter your way to the Jefferson Memorial.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

So, we have eight simple quests and three a bit complex ones. And that's just the main quest. Compare the last two to how the finales in Fallout and Fallout 2 played out, with at least two (Diplomat/Rambo) approaches available.

 

Now, the rest of the quest.

 

1. Big Trouble in Big Town

 

Save two humans, killing supermutants. Then come back and kill some more supermutants.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. The Superhuman Gambit

 

Find and kill/scare off either of the "heroes".

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

3. The Wasteland Survival Guide

 

An interesting quest but with a damn annoying questgiver.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Those!

 

Find ants, kill them, do what the scientist says.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes. (simplicity)

 

5. The Nuka-Cola Challenge

 

Get 30 NC Quantums.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

6. Head of State

 

Go to Memorial, slaughter slavers. Or the slaves.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

7. The Replicated Man

 

Track the android down. Interesting quest.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

8. Blood Ties

 

An interesting quest structure.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

9. Oasis

 

Go into a dungeon, kill stuff, use the heart, do anything with no consequence to your actions.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

10. The Power of the Atom

 

Destroy or save Megaton. No consequences.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

11. Tenpenny Tower

 

Interesting quest with unforeseen consequences.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

12. Strictly Business

 

Enslave four people.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

13. You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head

 

Get keys or the T-51b.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

14. Stealing Independence

 

Find the Declaration.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

15. Trouble on the Homefront

 

Fix the situation in Vault 101.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

16. Agatha's Song

 

Get the Soil Stradivarius from Vault 92.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

17. Reilly's Rangers

 

Slaughter mutants. A lot of them. Bring a fission battery with yourself too.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

12 simple and 5 complex (?) quests. Interestingly, the proportions are inverted, compared to Fallout 1.

 

And, while I am not devoid of faith in the ability of Obsidian to create a game more in the spirit of Fo1 than Fo3, I'd like to request, just to be safe, that they follow the example set forth by Fo1's quests.

 

On another note...

 

WHERE TO GO CONDITIONS

The player blew up the construction debris on the Rim, destroying the dam.

Goto 1

The player had the satellite fire on Hoover Dam

Goto 2

If the player brokered peace between Hoover and Mason's

Goto 3

If the player did not broker peace between Hoover and Mason's

Goto 4

Nothing done about the virus

Goto 5

PC distributes smooch through Dr. Yuri

Goto 6

 

1. Catastrophe! (WTG)

What took five years to build, only took seconds to destroy. In one fell swoop from a carefully placed explosive, millions of tons of water and concrete washed away the lives and ambitions of people who longed for a better future. Hoover Dam, in all its glory and engineering marvel, was no more.

Show crumbled dam face with green water cascading over jagged concrete and rebar.

 

2. SATELLITE DESTROYS Hoover Dam! (WTG)

Though the missiles of the Great War never touched Hoover Dam, the missiles of B.O.M.B.

[mkreku]

What's even the point in making a list like this if you're not going to treat both subjects (games) with equal standards? You excessively describe the quests in Fallout in minute detail and only give extremely short, ridiculing descriptions for the Fallout 3 equivalents? If you had at least treated them fairly, the list would have some value. As it is right now, it only shows your own prejudice.

 

Oh, and to add to the idiocy, you make it sound like the only solutions to any quest can be "diplomat, infiltrator or Rambo" because that's how Fallout did it. How convenient to discard the different outcomes of Fallout 3's quests because they are mostly karma-based instead, huh? Ridiculous.

 

I'm not even a big fan of Fallout 3, but this list was so biased I just had to modify it a little:

 

Vault 13:

 

1. Calm the rebel faction.

 

Talk to Theresa and convince her that the Overseer is right.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

1. Destroy the Mutant leader.

 

Assassinate the Master:

 

1. Diplomat: Infiltrate the base and convince the Master that his plan is a failure.

2. Infiltrator: Sneak into the Cathedral, activate the nuke and get out.

3. Rambo: Slaughter everything and everyone.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Destroy the source of the Mutants.

 

1. Diplomat: Infiltrate the base and hack the self-destruct sequence.

2. Infiltrator: Sneak into Mariposa, hack/blow up the self destruct console.

3. Rambo: Slaughter everything and everyone.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Find the Water Chip.

 

Largely depends on the way you play. The above three paths apply, plus you have to locate it on your own with some detective work and even there you have the three Diplomat/Infiltrator/Rambo options to choose from: talk your way through Harry, sneak by him or kill him outright.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

5. Find the Water Thief.

 

Guard duty, you can either convince the thief to turn himself in for 1000 XP or kill him for half the amount.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Shady Sands

 

1. Rescue Tandi from the Raiders.

 

A seemingly simple quest with multiple solutions:

 

Diplomat:

 

1. Appear to be Garl's father and convince him to release Tandi.

2. Threaten him to release the girl.

3. Buy Tandi out.

 

Rambo:

 

1. Fight Garl mano-a-mano

2. Slaughter everyone.

 

Infiltrator: Sneak in, unlock her cell door, sneak out with Tandi.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

2. Stop the Radscorpions.

 

Slaughter all scorpions.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

Junktown

 

1. Rescue Sinthia.

 

A hostage situation with a crazy raider.

 

Diplomat: Talk him out of the situation and make him leave Junktown.

Rambo: Slaughter the rat bastard (Sinthia hates you afterwards)

Infiltrator: Sneak up and knock him out.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

2. Stop Gizmo

 

A complex quest.

 

Diplomat: Record Gizmo, take the evidence to Killian then off him according to law.

Rambo: Slaughter Gizmo and Izo. You are exiled from Junktown, though.

Infiltrator: Plant the bug on Gizmo, then proceed according to the Diplomat path.

 

Visionary: Screw Killian over and assassinate him and/or leave town, so that Junktown prospers under Gizmo's careful guidance.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Bust the Skulz gang.

 

A seemingly simple quest, ending up in the removal of undesirables from Junktown.

 

Diplomat: Pose as a gang wannabe, steal Neal's urn then rat the gang out to the guards and dispose of them.

Rambo: Slaughter every gang member. You're exiled from Junktown afterwards.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

The Hub:

 

1. Dispose of Jain.

 

Hired hit.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Dispose of merchant.

 

Another hired hit.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

3. Find the missing caravans.

 

A major quest which is focused on acquiring information, not shooting stuff up and sifting through the ashes.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Steal necklace from the Merchants.

 

Thieves' Circle initiation quest. Requires high infiltrating skills and a bit of luck.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Necropolis:

 

1. Destroy the Super Mutants at the Watershed.

 

Straightforward.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Fix the Necropolis water pump.

 

A quest requiring a bit of thought and exploration, definitely not a trigger finger (although it helps).

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

Brotherhood

 

1. Become an Initiate.

 

You need to get to the Glow and bring back the ancient tape.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Rescue Initiate from the Hub.

 

Slaughter his captors!

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

Boneyard

 

1. Fix hydroponics plant.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. Adytum.

 

An interesting quest that has a bit of approaches:

 

1. Get weapons for the Blades and duke it out with the Regulators, optionally with support from armed Adytowners (planting weapons on them in advance)

2. Get the tape to Jon Zimmerman and duke it out alone.

3. Assassinate the Regulators one-by-one.

4. Kill the Blades off on Regulator behalf.

 

End sum:

 

19 quests: 13 complex, 6 simple.

1. Escape!

 

Escape from Vault 101.

 

Rambo: Kill everything and leave.

Other: Accept Amata's gun? Yes, and she dies (quest line disappears). No, and she'll live. Help Butch? Yes, and you'll get Butch's help later. No, and you lose Karma and Butch won't help you later.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No

 

2. Following in His Footsteps

 

Get info about your dad from Megaton.

 

1. Diplomat: Bargain with Moriarty.

2. Infiltrator: Break in and steal the info from Moriarty's computer.

3. Other: Do the Silver quest for Moriarty.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. Galaxy News Radio

 

Get to GNR, slaughter supermutants on the way.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

4. Scientific Pursuits

 

Find Dad's holotapes to get to Vault 112

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

5. Tranquility Lane

 

Liberate Dad from Braun.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

6. The Waters of Life

 

Slaughter Supermutants in the Memorial, then press buttons. Then watch the Enclave arrive, kill some Enclave, watch your dad die, then escape through the sewers killing more people on the way.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

7. Picking up the Trail

 

Find a computer in the Citadel and activate it.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

8. Rescue from Paradise

 

Get some kids out of Paradise Falls.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

9. Finding the Garden of Eden

 

Get into Vault 87 and get the GECK.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

10. The American Dream

 

Meet the President, slaughter Enclave troopers on the way.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

11. Take it Back!

 

Slaughter your way to the Jefferson Memorial.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

 

 

Sidequests:

 

1. Big Trouble in Big Town

 

Save two humans, killing supermutants. Then come back and kill some more supermutants.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

2. The Superhuman Gambit

 

Find and kill/scare off either of the "heroes".

 

This is just ridiculous! You can, of course, decide to kill them. But you have just as much incentive to solve the situation peacefully, which is perfectly possible. This really shows how biased this list is.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

3. The Wasteland Survival Guide

 

An interesting quest but with a damn annoying questgiver.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

4. Those!

 

Find ants, kill them, do what the scientist says.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes. (simplicity)

 

5. The Nuka-Cola Challenge

 

Get 30 NC Quantums.

 

No killing required. A quest designed to encourage exploration.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

6. Head of State

 

Go to Memorial, slaughter slavers. Or the slaves.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

7. The Replicated Man

 

Track the android down. Interesting quest.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

8. Blood Ties

 

An interesting quest structure.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

9. Oasis

 

No killing required. Quest is self-contained in its little world, but you have several outcomes from your decisions.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

10. The Power of the Atom

 

Destroy or save Megaton.

 

Save Megaton: Simply disarm the bomb and kill Burke and/or rat him out.

Destroy Megaton: Go to Tenpenny tower and watch the fireworks. All quests in Megaton are lost.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

11. Tenpenny Tower

 

Interesting quest with unforeseen consequences.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

12. Strictly Business

 

Enslave four people. No killing required. You need to put a slavecollar on four different people, all using different methods in different locations.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

13. You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head

 

Get keys or the T-51b.

 

Stealth: Steal the keys (pickpocket).

Rambo: Kill every target.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

14. Stealing Independence

 

Find the Declaration.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

15. Trouble on the Homefront

 

Fix the situation in Vault 101.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": No.

 

16. Agatha's Song

 

Get the Soil Stradivarius from Vault 92. Find Vault 92 by going to the Vault Tec HQ. Either give it to Agatha or sell it to Abraham Washington/Azruhkal.

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

17. Reilly's Rangers

 

Slaughter mutants. A lot of them. Bring a fission battery with yourself too.

 

[Ridiculously oversimplified description! Too lazy to check up on all the details though]

 

"Go there, kill that and get that": Yes.

 

End sum:

 

28 quests: 13 simple and 15 complex quests.

It's still not fair because I'm too lazy to go to a walkthrough for the ones I can't remember off the top of my head. But you've clearly tried to ridicule and intentionally simplify the description of every Fallout 3 quest.

 

I'm sure you'll disagree with every change I've made. I mean, if you describe Reilly's Rangers with "Slaughter mutants" and fail to mention awakening Reilly (or finding her in the first place!), the situation on the roof, finding out what happened to Theo, fixing the elevator (or let someone else do it) etc.. Yes, it has a lot of combat, but does that give you the right to lie about how simple it is? You intentionally make it sound like Fallout 3 is all about combat and Fallout had none. But we who played Fallout can clearly remember having to watch 20 rats slowly crawl towards you, one by one, in several different quests/places. Something you've conveniently forgotten to mention in ANY of Fallout's quests and happily mentioned in every Fallout 3 quest.

[Tagaziel]

The Rambo/Infiltrator/Diplomat division is based on Tim Cain's requirement that each quest have at least three possible ways of solving it, for three different character builds.

 

Riley's Rangers is a simplistic quest in and in itself, since it consists primarily of slaughtering your way through Statesman and bringing them a fission battery (sneaking is broken in vanilla Fo3). Then slaughtering them some more. Finding Riley isn't obligatory, while Theo is conveniently placed in a staircase you have to pass through to get to the roof. So, yeah, the quest is 95% killing, 5% find a battery.

 

I'd appreciate if you actually elaborated on your points, instead of pasting the same sentence all over the list.

 

Scientific Pursuits

 

It's marked as a FedEx/Slaughter quest, since you don't have to do any investigative work at all, you are told to go to Rivet City from GNR, there you get told to go to Project Purity, where you kill supermutants and grab holodiscs conveniently placed in plain sight.

 

Tranquility Lane is marked as a complex quest, so I don't really get your point.

 

Waters of Life is also a FedEx/Slaughter, since it consists of slaughtering supermutants, pressing some buttons, killing some Enclave, then killing some more Enclave in the tunnels and getting to the Citadel. You can't reason nor sneak, since you have a merry band of retards following you.

 

Picking up the Trail consists of you talking to Rothschild in the Citadel. That's about it.

 

Rescue from Paradise is you getting kids out of Paradise Falls, with various options at your disposal, so I don't understand your point, it's marked as a complex quest.

 

The American Dream is a shootfest. It's not complicated in any way, you only shoot your way out of Raven Rock without any possibility of sneaking out or blending in. It's "KILLKILLKILL" from beginning to the end.

 

The Superhuman Gambit may be mismatched, but still, the quest consists 95% of killing and the incentive to kill/convince is identical, rendering the decision moot.

 

Those! consists of killing ants, going underground, then killing some more ants and making a pointless decision.

 

Oasis has no consequences of your actions, no matter what you do to the Tree God, so it's a pointless choice.

 

The Power of the Atom is simple, since it consists of you either disabling the bomb using your LEET SKILLS or attaching a thingie to it. No quests are lost in practice, since only the Power of Atom and Wasteland Survival Guide are worthwhile, the first is what you are actually doing, the second is still possible to finish, since Moira conveniently becomes a ghoul after surviving a POINT BLANK nuclear explosion. So yeah, it's pointless and blatantly simple.

 

On the rest I agree. That still doesn't make Fo3's complex, since they don't have any effect on the gameworld and only a few change the ending.

 

And few Fallout quests require combat, far fewer than Fo3's, just replay Fo1 and check them out, then compare to how much you have to kill in Fo3 to even get to the quest objective.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Mikael Grizzly

[mkreku]

The Rambo/Infiltrator/Diplomat division is based on Tim Cain's requirement that each quest have at least three possible ways of solving it, for three different character builds.

Yes, he may say that. And the day Tim Cain becomes god this will be required for every RPG, but until then it's irrelevant. As far as I know, Tim wasn't involved in Fallout 3's development (busy working on his MMORPG). Why would Fallout 3 adhere to his rules?

 

Riley's Rangers is a simplistic quest in and in itself, since it consists primarily of slaughtering your way through Statesman and bringing them a fission battery (sneaking is broken in vanilla Fo3). Then slaughtering them some more. Finding Riley isn't obligatory, while Theo is conveniently placed in a staircase you have to pass through to get to the roof. So, yeah, the quest is 95% killing, 5% find a battery.

Sure, it's simplistic. Sure, you can find the battery on the way to the roof. Still describing it as "Slaughter everything" reeks of prejudice and bias. You are trying to make Fallout 3 sound dumber and simpler than it is. And sneaking worked fine for me and my silenced 10mm. Why is it broken? Because you had problems sneaking?

 

...where you kill supermutants and grab holodiscs conveniently placed in plain sight.

And this is the gist of it all. Of course you can complain about anything and everything if you want to. It's the easiest thing in the world to do: complain. It takes no skill, no intelligence, no wit, no knowledge. All you need is ignorance and bias, if even that. It doesn't matter if the discs are placed in plain sight. If they weren't you'd still be complaining about how Bethesda makes you pixel hunt for the discs. This is what happens when bias takes preference.

 

The Superhuman Gambit may be mismatched, but still, the quest consists 95% of killing and the incentive to kill/convince is identical, rendering the decision moot.

And you keep describing Fallout 3's quests like this.. Don't you realize that it's entirely possible to make every quest in Fallout sound equally idiotic, using the same method? "Slaughter the master. 95% combat. Kill/convince incentive is identical rendering the decision moot.". It's your opinion shining through, nothing else.

 

Those! consists of killing ants, going underground, then killing some more ants and making a pointless decision.

Sure. No mention of that little kid and his father. Or the fact that you can take the kid to either Rivet City or Lampshade afterwards. Or that you can either kill or spare the queen with different results. I mean, it's very easy to make things sound dumb if you leave out every detail.

 

Oasis has no consequences of your actions, no matter what you do to the Tree God, so it's a pointless choice.

Whether it's pointless or not is not relevant. The quest may still be complex. Also, it may be pointless for you, but for someone else the choice may mean something. Since you hate Fallout 3 with a passion (something you're bound to dispute), nothing in it will matter to you so you can easily discard everything in Fallout 3 as "pointless choice". Convenient.

 

That still doesn't make Fo3's complex, since they don't have any effect on the gameworld and only a few change the ending.

Fallout 3 may not be complex (or at least not as complex as Fallout), but you're greatly exaggerating how simplistic it is.

 

And few Fallout quests require combat, far fewer than Fo3's, just replay Fo1 and check them out, then compare to how much you have to kill in Fo3 to even get to the quest objective.

Also irrelevant. Fallout 3 is more combat heavy, but what does that have to do with quest complexity? And at least the combat in Fallout 3 is fast. No rats creeping around for several minutes while your level 20 machine-gun wielding character waits, even though he could probably stomp them all to death if it weren't for the broken combat system.

 

I, too, hate the fact that quest decisions in Fallout 3 rarely matters and that the quests never intertwine. But your way of describing things so unfairly is still grating and unnecessary. Fallout 3 can certainly make its own case why it's not perfect, it doesn't need your help.

[Tagaziel]

Yes, he may say that. And the day Tim Cain becomes god this will be required for every RPG, but until then it's irrelevant. As far as I know, Tim wasn't involved in Fallout 3's development (busy working on his MMORPG). Why would Fallout 3 adhere to his rules?

 

Hmm, let's see. Maybe because Tim was one of the people who made Fallout, defined what makes Fallout and what should be on the developer's mind when creating it? We're talking about Fallout 3, the game which is, supposedly, a sequel to Fallout and Fallout 2. So, yeah, I'm going to hold Fo3 to the same standards I hold Fo1 to and expect at least the same amount of freedom.

 

Sure, it's simplistic. Sure, you can find the battery on the way to the roof. Still describing it as "Slaughter everything" reeks of prejudice and bias. You are trying to make Fallout 3 sound dumber and simpler than it is. And sneaking worked fine for me and my silenced 10mm. Why is it broken? Because you had problems sneaking?

 

Because I grew up with Thief, not Oblivion. I have problems with primitive systems where I can't tell whether or not I'm hidden properly, since the game doesn't include shadows.

 

Statesman is a slaughterfest, since you are wading through hordes of supermutants from point A to B, without a possibility to skip any part of it. It's sad, the potential to make an awesome experience was there. Who would complain about a non-linear experience, in which you locate the members of the Rangers one by one, choosing your order, gaining unique rewards to help you in the quest?

 

And this is the gist of it all. Of course you can complain about anything and everything if you want to. It's the easiest thing in the world to do: complain. It takes no skill, no intelligence, no wit, no knowledge. All you need is ignorance and bias, if even that. It doesn't matter if the discs are placed in plain sight. If they weren't you'd still be complaining about how Bethesda makes you pixel hunt for the discs. This is what happens when bias takes preference.

 

I missed the Moonbeam Holodisc, which was out of the intended play route, which is fine and shows there was a bit of thought put into that particular subplot.

 

Nice way to pass judgements on people, to be honest. So, I'm not entitled to my opinion and am automatically a biased moron if I don't enjoy three large levels of shooting the same supermutants in the face over and over again?

 

And you keep describing Fallout 3's quests like this.. Don't you realize that it's entirely possible to make every quest in Fallout sound equally idiotic, using the same method? "Slaughter the master. 95% combat. Kill/convince incentive is identical rendering the decision moot.". It's your opinion shining through, nothing else.

 

Wrong. You have three distinct methods of assassinating the master, while there is only a single method available for either the AntAgonizer and the Mechanist, irrelevant of your stats, which is kind of the case for the Master.

 

Yes, both quests give you a target, but Fo3 makes combat obligatory, while in Fo1 it's entirely optional and can be skipped.

 

Sure. No mention of that little kid and his father. Or the fact that you can take the kid to either Rivet City or Lampshade afterwards. Or that you can either kill or spare the queen with different results. I mean, it's very easy to make things sound dumb if you leave out every detail.

 

The results of these choices are irrelevant in the context of the gameworld, since the world doesn't react to you doing anything , I treat it as non existent.

 

Whether it's pointless or not is not relevant. The quest may still be complex. Also, it may be pointless for you, but for someone else the choice may mean something. Since you hate Fallout 3 with a passion (something you're bound to dispute), nothing in it will matter to you so you can easily discard everything in Fallout 3 as "pointless choice". Convenient.

 

Do any of your choices affect the Oasis and does it have any effect on the gameplay? No, it does not.

 

I admit, I hate the Oasis. My hate for that location and the person responsible for it burns brighter than the light of a thousand suns, as Harold shouldn't end up as a ****ing tree, humiliated by stupid writing.

 

Fallout 3 may not be complex (or at least not as complex as Fallout), but you're greatly exaggerating how simplistic it is.

 

Compared to other RPGs I play? It's painfully primitive.

 

Also irrelevant. Fallout 3 is more combat heavy, but what does that have to do with quest complexity? And at least the combat in Fallout 3 is fast. No rats creeping around for several minutes while your level 20 machine-gun wielding character waits, even though he could probably stomp them all to death if it weren't for the broken combat system.

 

It's not broken, unless one of the devs forgot to code in "+ignore" in the script (SF martial arts contest). I've never waited for more than a few seconds for my turn, since you usually engage only enemies in your immediate vicinity. Not to mention there's a combat speed slider in the options which greatly improves the speed of conflict resolution.

 

Point is, quests in Fo3 almost uniformly include having to kill someone, if not as target, then along the way, while in most Fallout quests combat is entirely optional.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

*GASP*

 

Moira was NOT annoying!

[Tagaziel]

*GASP*

 

Moira was NOT annoying!

 

She was.

 

I hope I don't meet the VA in person. Results could be... messy.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Mikael Grizzly

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I loved Moira, actually. She got me laughing more than anything else.

Edited April 25, 2009 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Jerky]

I loved Moira, actually. She got me laughing more than anything else.

I got to agree. If I got bored and went around Megaton killing everyone, I wouldnt kill her. I would use my tranquilizing drugs (via the Better life through Chems mod) and knock her out and steal everything.