BioWare/Lucas Arts game unveiled Oct 21

[Wrath of Dagon]

And as long as they don't screw up any chance of Kotor 3 I'll live.

 

Based on the setting information, I think that's exactly what they did. How can KOTOR III be made (assuming you're referring to the Revan going off into the unknown regions plot) now, after this MMO takes place 300 years after the events of KOTOR and states that Revan left and never returned?

Just because Revan never returns, doesn't mean there's no story there. The problem is, they already said the MMO is a replacement for KOTOR 3, and can be played single player. I don't believe it'll work that way, so at some point they might reconsider.

[Azure79]

I think I figured it out!

 

Revan is the mysterious Sith Emperor! He went into the Unknown Regions to battle the Sith but realized they had reached a size much greater than anticipated. Accepting he was facing an unstoppable force he assassinated the Sith Emperor and subvertly took over to mitigate the suffering the Sith would cause down the line.

 

Because he is a lightsider in canon and all.

 

Oh yeah, the Exile came and helped Revan in this.

 

Then 300 years later, unable to stem the maliciousness of his Sith subordinates, the war with the Republic began. It was going well and all then Revan realized a much greater threat hiding in deep deep deep space. It was

the Reapers!

So he set off to deep deep deep space with the Exile and they'll be secret characters in

Mass Effect 2!

 

 

It all makes sense.

 

[Killian Kalthorne]

They are? Could have fooled me.

 

They are still in business aren't they, Dark Raven? If they weren't making games that most of their fanbase wants to play they wouldn't be making money making games. You need to stop waving that walking cane of yours and use a bit of logic.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Killian Kalthorne

[Deadly_Nightshade]

They are? Could have fooled me.

 

I agree.

[random n00b]

What this tells me is that, as these companies iron out the kinks, that anyone with sufficient cash will switch to MMO models. They've given up on trying to differentiate themselves by tighter stories, probably figuring that folks who really like the story elements will be able to pick out good stories from the background and the rest can just quest for better gear, new abilities, and better stats. This isn't bad or good news, but I do see MMOs as taking a bigger slice of the RPG pie. This can be bad if it results in the death of single player RPG titles. It can also be good if it shakes out the lightweights and forces the survivors to craft superior stories. As long as RPGs continue to shift to multi-player content, often resulting in games that fail to focus sufficiently on either single or multi player gameplay, then RPGs will continue to trade away their best asset (tighter control of the story).

Er, there's at least two SP RPGs being developed right under our noses. And that's just here. I don't think that just because BIO is trying their hand at MMOs, the whole genre is "shifting" towards that model.

 

 

Just because Revan never returns, doesn't mean there's no story there. The problem is, they already said the MMO is a replacement for KOTOR 3, and can be played single player. I don't believe it'll work that way, so at some point they might reconsider.

That's not exactly what they said. They said the MMO is expected to have enough content to cover the next six games down the line. That looks to me more like a statement on the planned scope than a factual declaration of future plans for the franchise. I don't believe a KotOR 3 will be made, but they could squeeze it in if they wanted to. Edited October 23, 2008 by random n00b

[Aristes]

I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen crpgs evolve quite a bit from what they were when I first started playing them anyhow. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I think the current trend is to MMOs. Actually, I think the trend was to MMOs, but folks saw how difficult they were to create and manage. Now, these developers have learned and MMOs are getting easier to manage and the fanbase is getting to be accustomed to the peculiar problems such as connectivity and the like. For that reason, I see more developers, particularly ones who have the funding, looking to the MMO model.

 

Look, my intention isn't to be alarmist. Even if the MMO model keeps picking up steam, what you and crashgirl have said remains true. There are single player RPGs in development and the market will inevitably hit a saturation point.

 

I just see the current trend as playing out over time to the point where single player rpgs will be forced to play more to their strengths. I see the story as the primary advantage, perhaps the only advantage, single player games have over MMOs. Hell, I'm not even bashing MMOs. I'm a huge MMO fan. I'm just as much a standard CRPG fan. ...But I think the biggest restraint on MMOs to date has been capital and technology. As technology advances and the model proves increasingly profitable, more developers are going to make that move. If single player role playing games don't do something to differentiate themselves, then it might see itself more and more defined as a subcategory. Less investment in such games will simply mean fewer of them.

 

No panic, though. I freely admit I'm making a lot of assumptions and a few broad leaps there. I guess I was just more putting forth in the discussion than making hard fast predictions.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Just because Revan never returns, doesn't mean there's no story there. The problem is, they already said the MMO is a replacement for KOTOR 3, and can be played single player. I don't believe it'll work that way, so at some point they might reconsider.

That's not exactly what they said. They said the MMO is expected to have enough content to cover the next six games down the line. That looks to me more like a statement on the planned scope than a factual declaration of future plans for the franchise. I don't believe a KotOR 3 will be made, but they could squeeze it in if they wanted to.

They clearly stated that instead of doing K3, they decided to do the MMO, because they could reach "a wider audience", translated as they think they can make bigger gobs of cash.

[Oerwinde]

They clearly stated that instead of doing K3, they decided to do the MMO, because they could reach "a wider audience", translated as they think they can make bigger gobs of cash.

 

Yeah, MMO sales charts are enough to call bull on that statement. Aren't single player games still outselling MMOs by like 3 to one at least? But then you look at WoW making 80 million a month, wider audience my aunt fanny.

[Gfted1]

Holy crap, is that really what WoW pulls down a month? Linky?

[Morgoth]

Shouldn't it even be more? Blizzard has stated they've now 15 million subscribers. 15 000 000 x 12.99 = HUUUUUUUUUUGE BIIIIIIIIIG FAAAAAAT Money per month.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Morgoth

[Gfted1]

Shouldn't it even be more? Blizzard has stated they've now 15 million subscribers. 15 000 000 x 12.99 = HUUUUUUUUUUGE BIIIIIIIIIG FAAAAAAT Money per month.

 

 

Wow, I didnt realize there were that many subscribers. Thats more people then the individual population of the bottom 160 countries in the world, lol.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Gfted1

[alanschu]

I thought it was more like 10 million subscribers. But alas.

[Slowtrain]

WoW is a beast. The chance of another mmorpg getting those kind of numbers is low. Although, if any IP has a chance to do so, it is probably Star Wars. Doesn't every dork on the planet want to be a jedi or a sith or Han Solo?

[Maria Caliban]

Yes!

 

*waves swick around while making swooshy lightsaber sounds*

*knows you've done the same*

[Wrath of Dagon]

A couple of million subscribers wouldn't be unreasonable for a quality SW MMO. That's $30 million a month, not a bad haul.

[Gfted1]

WoW is a beast. The chance of another mmorpg getting those kind of numbers is low. Although, if any IP has a chance to do so, it is probably Star Wars. Doesn't every dork on the planet want to be a jedi or a sith or Han Solo?

 

 

Then why did SWG crash and burn so spectacularly?

[Strix]

WoW is a beast. The chance of another mmorpg getting those kind of numbers is low. Although, if any IP has a chance to do so, it is probably Star Wars. Doesn't every dork on the planet want to be a jedi or a sith or Han Solo?

 

 

Then why did SWG crash and burn so spectacularly?

 

It was a badly run and designed MMO.

[Slowtrain]

Yes!

 

*waves swick around while making swooshy lightsaber sounds*

*knows you've done the same*

 

 

heh. I wish. I'm afraid my fantasies are sadly far more prosiac than that. Mostly having to do with having enough money and being able to pursue my interest rather than the interests of others.

 

WoW is a beast. The chance of another mmorpg getting those kind of numbers is low. Although, if any IP has a chance to do so, it is probably Star Wars. Doesn't every dork on the planet want to be a jedi or a sith or Han Solo?

 

 

Then why did SWG crash and burn so spectacularly?

 

a poopy game is still a poopy game! Regardless of the dork factor. Even ninjas can't save a bad game.

Edited October 23, 2008 by CrashGirl

[Aristes]

SWG fall under the example of how a lot of companies lost money hitting the MMO model without realizing how much it costs to run one. I think MMOs have reached a point where they're still expensive to maintain, but it's getting easier. There's a reason why so many companies are trying to get into the MMO game. It can't be chance. They see an opportunity for profit.

 

I wonder how that new Fallout MMO is going to be. hahahahahaha

[Meshugger]

Maybe STOR will be start of a new MMO-bubble, that will burst and only leave the profitable ones left.

[Shryke]

Yes!

 

*waves swick around while making swooshy lightsaber sounds*

*knows you've done the same*

 

hehe guilty

 

i gotta admit, at least a MMORPG in the Old Republic era sounds a lot more doable than the movie era

[Slowtrain]

Its a pretty ambitious undertaking to compete with WoW at the moment.

 

A developer has to think about

 

a) how many people who are not already playing WoW can be convinced to play this new MMORPG. But WoW may have already cornered a large section of the market on potential MMORPG'ers. Those who are left maybe don't really want to play MMORPGs because if they did, they would already be playing WoW

 

b) how many people can a new MMORPG lure away from WoW. Which is obviously a tough sell. People are reluctant to leave what they already know.

 

c) how many people can be convinced to maintain full time subscriptions to multiple mmorpgs, especially given the dedication one has to have to a single game to really pursue.

 

It could be done, of course, but WoW is like Windows. It is so entrenched and iconic that even if better and cheaper products are available, those other products fail to make much of a dent in the user base. The alternate products always have some users and devotees, but they are still not going to generate the huge dollars.

 

 

And I am assuming that the goal here is big dollars along the lines of WoW. If they are willing to settle for smaller money and a smaller market, then it's not such an ambitious undertaking.

[alanschu]

Yes!

 

*waves swick around while making swooshy lightsaber sounds*

*knows you've done the same*

 

It is true!

[alanschu]

Its a pretty ambitious undertaking to compete with WoW at the moment.

 

A developer has to think about

 

a) how many people who are not already playing WoW can be convinced to play this new MMORPG. But WoW may have already cornered a large section of the market on potential MMORPG'ers. Those who are left maybe don't really want to play MMORPGs because if they did, they would already be playing WoW

 

b) how many people can a new MMORPG lure away from WoW. Which is obviously a tough sell. People are reluctant to leave what they already know.

 

c) how many people can be convinced to maintain full time subscriptions to multiple mmorpgs, especially given the dedication one has to have to a single game to really pursue.

 

It could be done, of course, but WoW is like Windows. It is so entrenched and iconic that even if better and cheaper products are available, those other products fail to make much of a dent in the user base. The alternate products always have some users and devotees, but they are still not going to generate the huge dollars.

 

 

And I am assuming that the goal here is big dollars along the lines of WoW. If they are willing to settle for smaller money and a smaller market, then it's not such an ambitious undertaking.

 

 

I can see where you're coming from. The big thing for WoW to me though, was it showed to me that I am okay with paying for a subscription service to a game if I think it is a lot of fun. I used to be a hardliner stance against that, but WoW changed that.

 

In that sense, WoW was a MMO gateway drug for me.

 

I think an advantage SWTOR will have, is simply that it's not WoW.

 

People figured WoW wouldn't stand up to EQ2 and it's dedicated user base, so who knows. I doubt SWTOR will do as well as WoW mostly because half of the subscriptions are in the Asian market, and I don't know how popular the Star Wars License is there. But I could see SWTOR doing quite well in Western markets.

[Aristes]

I conceded making a few leaps in my assessment earlier, but I think you're making a big leap yourself, crashgirl. You see WoW as THE MMORPG. That assumes a lot. I don't think WoW has sold more because it's happened into it. It's the most popular because, when push comes to shove, it's better. At least, it's better if better means a huge game world that is remarkably stable and accessible to wide variety of players.

 

...But it's a stretch to say folks think, "Hmm, I want an MMORPG and WoW is the best one." They don't. Some folks are looking for MMORPGs for their own sake, but the setting and the quality of the product will still be the deciding factor. SWG undoubtedly would have done better if the product had been better. ...And, as a WoWer, I'll tell you that I'm jonsin' for a different game with a better setting. I find the WoW backstory and universe lackluster. ...But WoW is generally stable, fairly easy to learn, and has a large variety of things to appeal to the customer.

 

I'll give you a prime example. I ran out and purchased the Warhammer Online game the second I knew it was on the market. I don't regret buying it, but I've already cancelled my subscription. Why? Not because I like WoW's setting or because I figured I'd stick with whichever MMORPG happened to be on top at the time. I stayed with WoW because I could sign on and play without the game crashing every ten minutes... and taking my internet connection with it.

 

If a good MMORPG hits the shelves that attracts a significant online following, they will drag customers away from WoW, but don't make the mistake of thinking that there isn't room for the MMORPG market to grow. If you don't make that stupid mistake, I won't sound the alarm that the market can only grow at the expense of the single player RPG market, which probably isn't true at this point.