My name should say it...

[angrycustomer]

I'm sure this thread will be shut down quickly and I shall be banned. However, as long as it is here, I hope someone will read this and think on what it says. I do not know who is responsible for the problems that I am having, Obsidian or Atari. Atari has made themselves slightly more impossible to contact than Obsidian, so this post appears here.

 

Those of you who are PC gamers, who enjoy the freedom a PC gives, and who enjoy using a keyboard and being able mod or mess with settings might have noticed that developers hate us. I mean really hate us. One, they blame us for piracy. This is a fair assumption, I suppose. Pirating is quite easy on a PC. However, it is either a punishment for having such a capability, or simply because they don't care, that no game seems to work right on the first try. Ever. As a friend pointed out, game breaking bugs are incredibly rare on consoles.

 

Now, I'm not talking just bugs from hardware incompatibilities or various software incompatibilities. I'm talking things like an automatic updater that does not work, or a game destroying omission of a text line that prevents a story from moving forward from the very beginning. Patching manually would be okay, but they decide not to have any patches for download off their site. Still, at least someone cobbled together a list of the patches you need, in the order they need to be downloaded and installed. Mind you, they are not exe files, but some good soul made an unofficial patching program that would patch them for you. Because who actually knows how to apply a patch in RTP format? The final insult is when one of those patches does not even work. Obviously because this is all being done away from any official "support" there are no answers as to what to do. Thank God for tech support...except that it is mostly done through "self help" on forums moderated by people who are so busy trying to make sure the forum doesn't get out of hand with the absurd number of people that need help that they end up being unhelpful and further obfuscate the matter. Then you actually try to find a phone number, hope you happen to have a chance during the week when you and everyone else is at work. And, the best part is, all you can end up doing is getting some poor innocent who tries to help you solve the problem. Meanwhile, the company that made the game cannot be reached, contacted, and generally doesn't feel your displeasure. They take your money and give you the run around.

 

So now we are back to piracy. Some of you probably have figured out what game I am having issues with. I waited for over a year until I had some free cash to buy the game, and now I am stuck trying to manually patch it with the most unhelpful system imaginable, and then debug my own game. These game companies invest huge amounts of money trying to insure our loyalty, but do nothing to actually deserve or retain it. Don't PC gamers get tired of doing this game after game? Doesn't anyone feel like they deserve something more?

 

I want to support the industry and developers, but I also want to be supported. And I am not getting that.

 

Sincerely,

Tristram

a.k.a Angrycustomer

 

p.s. I'm not asking anyone to fix my problem. I'm asking people to think about what is going on here.

Edited September 7, 2008 by angrycustomer

[Nightshape]

So you're technically incompetent?

[angrycustomer]

Possibly. But since I am doing nothing more than: downloading and running a program, it is not my incompetence that is in question here. Good show though.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Well, we'd like to help you, but you give so little information about your system and problems. I assume the game you're talking about is Neverwinter Nights 2, in which case the best place to go for support is here.

[Nightshape]

I must admit, I was indeed suffering from some kinda confusion.

[angrycustomer]

Been there, done that, not looking for help. I want to open a discussion about how we can even accept this as normal.

 

Atari says 7 to 10 business days to reply to an email...an email, form the love of God. And...no phone number? I purchased the game to support all involved, but they are not supporting me.

 

Also, I should not have to be technically competent to play a game. That is why I buy it, not make it.

 

Like buying a car and dealer assistance ending the moment it is off the lot. Or the dealer, at the very most, saying "I'll help when I get around to it. Leave a note telling me whats wrong. And don't call me."

Edited September 7, 2008 by angrycustomer

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I was going to go into more detail, but I have other things that I should be doing and so I'll simply post what I have so far.

 

...game breaking bugs are incredibly rare on consoles.

 

Ummm... That's not true nowadays, as Kotor II's X-box bugs prove.

 

Patching manually would be okay, but they decide not to have any patches for download off their site.

 

The NWNVault, although not part of Obsidian or Atari, has never failed me when I needed the patches.

 

Because who actually knows how to apply a patch in RTP format?

 

More of us than you seem to think!

Edited September 7, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Nightshape]

Been there, done that, not looking for help. I want to open a discussion about how we can even accept this as normal.

 

Atari says 7 to 10 business days to reply to an email...an email, form the love of God. And...no phone number? I purchased the game to support all involved, but they are not supporting me.

 

Also, I should not have to be technically competent to play a game. That is why I buy it, not make it.

 

Like buying a car and dealer assistance ending the moment it is off the lot. Or the dealer, at the very most, saying "I'll help when I get around to it. Leave a note telling me whats wrong. And don't call me."

 

erm, no it's not like buying a car, it's like buying something for your car. If I was to get a new exaust system, I wouldn't be competant to fit it.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Also, I should not have to be technically competent to play a game. That is why I buy it, not make it.

No, you shouldn't. On the other hand, a certain level of technical competence has always been required to play PC games - I remember the constant nightmare of figuring out what my soundblaster card settings were in the pre-Plug&Play era. I think it must always be the gamer's responsibility to keep his/her computer in a reasonable condition, with drivers updated and the memory largely free of glitch-causing applications. When was the last time you did a fresh wipe/reinstall of your hard drive?

[angrycustomer]

Also, I should not have to be technically competent to play a game. That is why I buy it, not make it.

No, you shouldn't. On the other hand, a certain level of technical competence has always been required to play PC games - I remember the constant nightmare of figuring out what my soundblaster card settings were in the pre-Plug&Play era. I think it must always be the gamer's responsibility to keep his/her computer in a reasonable condition, with drivers updated and the memory largely free of glitch-causing applications. When was the last time you did a fresh wipe/reinstall of your hard drive?

 

 

About a week ago, though not by choice. Look, I'm just saying that all these problems are because I didn't patch the NeverWinter Nights 2 before installing the Expansion (or so it seems). And there is no easy way to contact anyone about anything. My issue is that somehow this poor service is seen as both okay and normal. And mostly, I needed to vent.

[SteveThaiBinh]

And mostly, I needed to vent.

I think we sort of got that.

 

As for patching, my understanding is that you're not supposed to patch NWN2 before installing Mask of the Betrayer. That's certainly the order I follow: NWN2 --> MotB --> Updater.

 

If you do seriously wish to vent, I'd recommend a polite-but-firm printed snail-mail letter to the publisher (who is responsible for tech support) and/or the gaming press. You are a consumer and you do have a right to be heard.

[Blarghagh]

Funny, on my copy the game breaks if I DON'T update NWN before installing MOTB. At least, the NWN 2 campaign. Because the Shard quest doesn't work.

 

Sadly, NWN 2 is quite buggy even now. I can't help but feeling sympathy for Obs, seeing it was the first game they made with an engine of their own. I know enough about the game industry that making engines is tough ****.

[Tigranes]

I've got to agree with the OP that in general, the game industry can be pretty damn opaque about this stuff, and many don't really try to make you feel that you are being listened to (because, well, you aren't, really). Can't say much more than that at the moment though, since I'm still not sure what exactly the nature of his problem was and so I can't relate it to the situation.

 

I wonder just how much backlash in economic terms there was/is from KOTOR2's unfinished ending. How many recognise OE as having a 'buggy' reputation? I mean, are they even 'buggy' in comparison to other companies? Hrm.

[Walsingham]

I must be very lucky. I haven't had any bugs with either NWN2 or Vampire - Bloodlines. Wel, except once where I did something deliberately sneaky, and it broke a quest.

 

Ultimately, I feel your pain, but what can we do here, mate? All we can really do is point out how much effort the devs make to participate, and apologise on their behalf if you're having a bad time of it.

[Jaesun]

I don't get it. The auto patcher has been working just fine for years. CURRENTLY it is broken for some people (the dreaded nwn2_pcx1_ modfix_from100788 _to105912.zip missing).

 

As for bugs, I never experienced any with NWN2, but I bought it around when patch 1.06 came out. (I have played through the OC 3+ times).

 

So you are just upset that currently the autopatcher is not working for you?

 

Though I guess if you want to complain about how the game was originally released, well yea, that was kind of a mess, which is why I waited to buy NWN2 later.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Jaesun

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned: So far there has been a generally constructive and honest tone to this thread. Let's see if that can be maintained ...

[Killian Kalthorne]

I don't know what is wrong with the OP, but I have manually patched NWN2 before and had no problems with the updater. Maybe he is not doing it right?

[Gfted1]

The autopatcher never once worked for me but I was able to manually patch by groveling on the Bio boards until I was linked to the vault.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The autopatcher never once worked for me but I was able to manually patch by groveling on the Bio boards until I was linked to the vault.

Why grovel? I simply asked a moderator via PM and I was given the link.

[Marcus]

Shhh... Click Here

Shhh... More organized: Click Here

 

a) Install both the core and expansion game first.

b) Install the nwn2_pcx1_english_from1101115_to1101116 second.

 

Upgrade your game to:

nwn2_pcx1_english_from1101115_to1101116.zip

 

When you have everything in place, the game and the dialogue problems will be fixed. This will fix the core modules as well, so you can get passed that first shared quest. Good luck. From one upset customer to another, you make some really good points. Obsidian and Atari have quietly allowed the manual downloads, but they will not support anything that goes wrong. Use at your own risk.

 

I also believe that there should be somehting done, so that consumers are protected from the 'patch later' perspective. Keep in mind that there are no current laws protecting software consumers. Why? There is the potential for burning software copies and then returning them to the store. Until we are able to get more secured consumer protection laws, which also protect the publishers, we have to deal with these issues through patching. If we can stop people from burning copies, we can find a way to return a game for refunds or exchanges. This goes for DVD movies also.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Marcus

[Gorgon]

Atari is a bit problematic for support, for one thing you have to create a profile there, and enter a serial for your game before you can even post, in return for all that bother you get the same troubleshooting general section you could have found anywhere.

 

Patching is problematic as well, it has to be done in a specific order. When I needed help figuring out what order to patch NWN2 and install Mask of the Betrayer I posted here, I got help before any mod was helpful enough to close the tread and send me to Atari. That said, state the problem and ye shall find help, long angry tirades won't help a bit.

 

Does anyone think there will be a universal patch with the new adons. One can hope.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Gorgon

[Marcus]

I think most people would agree, but correct me if I'm way out of line. If you were to purchase a car from Ford, you would want it to work when the key is turned. Some people purchased a version of Neverwinter 2's expansion, which caused the main core modules to become currupt. Instead of the game working straight out of the box, some people had to apply a patch to fix the problems. "Hey! Just return it for an exchange!" I wish it were that easy. At the time of the issue, the same version was still on the shelf. People would just exchange the same version for the same version. You would still have the problems. When Toys-R-Us or Target makes a serious mistake, they apologize to the public and present a solution. Atari and Obsidian didn't make the issue public. Instead of being sympathetic to the customer, they said, "Patch the game and leave us alone.' If people truely wanted to send a statement, you could allways go to the BBB. Obsidian should have placed a notice on their website. Its good for customer relations. Since some of us have dial-up, Obsidian and Atari should also make the patch available for easy downloading. Updating the game through the game's updater on dial-up is difficult. Making the patches available for manual installation would show that Obsidian and Atari actually care about consumers.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Neverwinter 2 is a great game, and it would be a shame to not have Obsidian and Atari's support. I really like these guys or gals, and I hope a more universal solution could be presented. I'm also praying that they learn from these mistakes.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Marcus

[Walsingham]

I'm beginning to wonder if patches aren't an inevitable part of having masses of freeform content. I mean, sure other companies don't have to patch but generally their games contain about 10 fedex vanilla quests with endless goblin mashing. NWN2 had tonnes of odd content, like the Keep management, or that strange woman who fights you for no very good reason. With so much stuff you are bound to have emergent properties (you think you're adding 3+3, but something nearby square roots it because you need it to square root things normally). If that is true, and we have to choose between weird content and having to patch I'll take patching every time.

 

You do have a really good point about dial-ups, though. Frankly I don't think ANYONE cares about dial-ups any more, but that's no excuse. I'd suggest sending out a CD with the patch in on request. Couldn't be too expensive, except possibly in admin.

 

Of course I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't feel narked about the game getting bugs. But it's like getting caught in the rain.

 

EDIT: If you think this is bad I just absentmindedly agreed to patch Company of Heroes. 1.8 GIGABYTES, and that's just install 1. The game now refuses to play at all until I've added every single remaining patch. This has taken nearly five hours, and I'm still not done at my fourth patch. What kind of total wanker would force you to patch before you could play when the game was working fine before the patch? It also now looks like I'm going to be wedged into online play every time I want to play. This is awful.

 

POST-EDIT: SEVEN PATCHES IN, and still they keep coming. Time now six hours.

[Marcus]

When I first found the problems, I looked online for some answers. Since it was very early in the release, not many people were outspoken about the issues. As a result of not finding the answers, Neverwinter 2 sat on the game shelf for a few years. While everyone else was playing through the expansion, my copy was just sitting collecting dust. If you think about the cost, your looking at $49.99 for the core game and $29.99 for the expansion. Sure, I could have played the core game at any point in time; however, I wanted to play them both from beginning to end. Obsidian did this awsome upgrade to the Neverwinter universe, and I wanted to just get into the fun and action. Around two or three months ago, I descided to clear the dust off the boxes. After playing around with keywords on Google, I managed to find others with my similar problem. Upon finding those manual patches, I jumped across the room like a kid on Christmas. Eventhough I found my solution, I was upset at one interesting thing. There was no statement about the issues at Obsidian or Atari's site, nor were there any supported solutions for dial-up gammers. Could you imagine how many people had these problems, and there was no offical dial-up solution for patching?

 

You know what the numb thing about this is? About three days ago, a few moths after painstakenly downloading 100mb+ of patches, I ended up switching over to FiOS. Lol... Even though my internet service has been upgraded, I still think the dial-up support for gammers is horrible.

 

Yes. People can be real complainers, but I can really feel their pain. Obsidian or Atari should have said and done something.

 

--------------------------

 

Added Edit: It took me 24hours to download 24MB out of 48MB, and that was with a download accelarator. Imagine the time it took me to download 100mb+ to patch this game. Grrr...

Edited September 10, 2008 by Marcus

[Walsingham]

I've calmed down now, but I guess I understand your problem better.