New Dragon Age discussion thread

[Rhomal]

"QFT (still love you V even if your blind loyalty of nwn/bioware gets in your way of objective opinion)"

 

This would be funny if I thought NWN was perfect, and had no criticism about it. Only the blind haters think I think NWN is perfect. Nor did I say NWN's graphics are perfect; but they're much better than what some are saying. You calimed that NWN's graphics were trashed on its original release by everybody. That simply isn't true. People are claiming that IE graphics were better than Aurora's. That is also false. *shrug*

 

The fact that NWN (a 2002 game)'s grpahics isn't as good as games made in 2009 is a silly comparison that proves nothing. NWN's graphics were better than more than a few of its fellow 2002 game sincluding the overrated MW and its brown poo poo.

 

If you didn't put words in my mouth you would have had a point V. The phrase 'most reviews' <> 'all' or even imply such. Majority yes, every one no. And if you need me to post links to major review sites stating such I'll be happy to but I am sure you can find them on your own.

 

I also never said or implied they were 'trash' I said they were 'dated out of the box'. Again most reviews and players agree with me. If you doubt that as fact again, google is your friend. But you know this is true even if you can't bring yourself to admit it which I think it the root of the issue here.

 

I also made 0 comparison of nwn1 vs todays rendering engines. I did say however they have not aged well unlike other games and I stand by that comment.

 

Perhaps if you reply to what I actually said we could have a productive discussion.

[Tigranes]

http://dragonage.bioware.com/noveltst.html

 

You can download the first chapter of Gaider's prequel here.

 

Won't load for my stupid internet, but will have a look at work later.

[Tigranes]

Read it.. it's your standard fantasy fare really. For all their talk of 'dark fantasy' and 'different' and whatever, I'm pretty sure DA will turn out to be your normal fantasy world and normal fantasy story, just with a bit more death and 'mature' circumstances (no, not sexxorz). Possibly as much as the Witcher, probably a bit less. I would have welcomed a much more derivative setting than the one they are clearly going for, but I don't mind too much.

 

Writing itself seems to be, again, your standard fantasy fare, pretty decent so far.

[Maria Caliban]

I posted the link on the previous page, but I don't think anyone saw it.

 

I don't think the tone of the book is indicative of Dragon Age: Origins at all. I wouldn't call it up to 'standard fantasy fare,' but it's the same quality as, say, the Icewind Dale trilogy.

 

Read it.. it's your standard fantasy fare really. For all their talk of 'dark fantasy' and 'different' and whatever, I'm pretty sure DA will turn out to be your normal fantasy world and normal fantasy story, just with a bit more death and 'mature' circumstances (no, not sexxorz). Possibly as much as the Witcher, probably a bit less. I would have welcomed a much more derivative setting than the one they are clearly going for, but I don't mind too much.

 

I just caught that. Can I ask what you characterize as 'dark fantasy?' As far as I know, the Witcher is as dark as fantasy gets in video game land. You could move more into horror like Silent Hill or Dead Space.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Maria Caliban

[Wombat]

Read it.. it's your standard fantasy fare really. For all their talk of 'dark fantasy' and 'different' and whatever, I'm pretty sure DA will turn out to be your normal fantasy world and normal fantasy story, just with a bit more death and 'mature' circumstances (no, not sexxorz). Possibly as much as the Witcher, probably a bit less. I would have welcomed a much more derivative setting than the one they are clearly going for, but I don't mind too much.

 

Writing itself seems to be, again, your standard fantasy fare, pretty decent so far.

I don't hold much expectation to Bioware in this area. They are quite conservative in this respect and don't have incentive/motivation to change it especially when the majority of their fans don't want them to be too radical or original.

 

I wouldn't call it up to 'standard fantasy fare,' but it's the same quality as, say, the Icewind Dale trilogy.

Now, speaking of the devil...

[Dark_Raven]

NWN graphics > IE graphics.

Quit spreading lies. Even Arcanum floors NWN in graphics.

 

I prefer 2D graphics, the only good 3D graphics comes from Source, whatever engine Oblivion uses and from the screenshots DA.

[Maria Caliban]

I think we can all agree that DA looks better than NWN.

 

NWN graphics > IE graphics.

Quit spreading lies. Even Arcanum floors NWN in graphics.

 

I prefer 2D graphics, the only good 3D graphics comes from Source, whatever engine Oblivion uses and from the screenshots DA.

 

 

DA uses the Eclipse engine, which was developed by BioWare. I believe the Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine is called 'the Oblivion engine'.

[Tigranes]

Can I ask what you characterize as 'dark fantasy?'

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure what the 'proper' terms are, but:

 

The Witcher, for me, was dark derivative fantasy. In other words it followed most laws of your stock fantasy worlds, but then basically threw buckets of blood, ichor and sawdust into it and depicted what happens. It constructed the world in such a way that it showed the other side of fantasy 'as it is', and tried to do that without screaming in your face "LOOK ITS SO BAD". I enjoyed it because the setting was able to thence present some common fantasy situations in a way that is more believable, or more effective - the elf resistance in chapter 4(?), your quarrell with that villain duo in the swamps (sorry, it's been a while), and so forth. It even had soap drama with that 'party', but because it was delivered within the context of the setting it remained pretty realistic. And I'm pretty sure this was the purpose behind the game - to present a fantasy world that's gone and got itself screwed up.

 

What I'm trying to say about DA is that it's unlikely it will be 'dark' like the Witcher, because everything I've seen - from in-game dialogue, to art direction, to devs talking, to the book chapter (which may not be the same as the game, yes, but it seems to fit at the moment) - is that the world, its narratives, its elements and its events will mostly be high fantasy stuff, and the only 'dark' bit comes from the way it's interpreted/described. So more about adding, or trying to add, to the poignancy (uh...) of the pillage & rape involved in an invasion, or an NPC with a complex, or losing your comrade in battle, or whatever. If done badly, DA will just seem like family-friendly teenage TV trying to seem cool and wise; if done well, DA will be a well-polished, standard fantasy that is a little more up-front, ruthless and 'dark'.

 

Iasically, if you had a situation where a pregnant woman is killed by invading orc:

-KOTOR1/NWN1 said "Oh, the poor unborn baby and the woman!", to which you could reply "It is horrible, and I am so sorry" or "Pfft, I don't care about them".

-KOTOR2 said, "The pregnant woman died because she was weak. Because she did not have the power."

-The Witcher said, "Pregnant women die. It ****ing sucks."

-Dragon Age is likely to say, IMO, "Look at that pregnant woman die, with her unborn child. This is our reality. This is what the Blight/whatever means to our land. That child will never know life, etc, etc."

 

 

Obviously this is provisional opinion based on a small sample of facts and may change wildly or turn out very wrong. Also, if DA turns out the way I expect... nothing wrong with that at all. About the only thing I see as a "problem" at the moment is just how much some of its devs try to trump up the 'dark' stuff.

[Wombat]

-Dragon Age is likely to say, IMO, "Look at that pregnant woman die, with her unborn child. This is our reality. This is what the Blight/whatever means to our land. That child will never know life, etc, etc."

However, there are a handful of people who fight against no matter how things may look hopeless. People call them - Grey Wardens. And the epic adventure begins. http://dragonage.bioware.com/greywardens.html ...well, I guess this is a bit unfair to the game which is still not released. So, I'll write down what I think about settings in general.

 

First, I have to confess that I'm not into fantasy novels. However, in any setting, whether it is society or individual characters, I'd like to see something common to us based on deep insight rather than superficial ones. I don't praise the Witcher as a masterpiece, but it at least tries not to be yet another Tolkienesque fantasy, by not simply recycling factors of the superficial settings such as elves, dwarfs and orcs, but also building them in a way that we can see the human activities/motives familiar in our own world. You might think I simply like to read/watch/play real world novels/movies/RPG but, without insight, it would be hard for me to sympathize with the situation/characters no matter the superficial settings would look like. If there should be some themes which writers would like to express, then, the world/setting should follow it. In role-playing games, a good example would be Plaenscape: Torment. Unfortunately, I don't feel such an inner drive from Bioware writers. To my eyes, they seem to simply copy things they read/watched in fantasy novels and Sci-Fi TV series. Will a miracle happen with Dragon Age? To be honest, so far, I don't see any reason to expect so.

[Volourn]

"Iasically, if you had a situation where a pregnant woman is killed by invading orc:

-KOTOR1/NWN1 said "Oh, the poor unborn baby and the woman!", to which you could reply "It is horrible, and I am so sorry" or "Pfft, I don't care about them".

-KOTOR2 said, "The pregnant woman died because she was weak. Because she did not have the power."

-The Witcher said, "Pregnant women die. It ****ing sucks."

-Dragon Age is likely to say, IMO, "Look at that pregnant woman die, with her unborn child. This is our reality. This is what the Blight/whatever means to our land. That child will never know life, etc, etc.""

 

How, exactly, does this make TW darker than the others? Because it has swears? Nor does this make KOTOR2 darker either.

[Tigranes]

Because it has swears?

 

No.

[Monte Carlo]

Dave's writing fanfic for his own game.

 

This has to be a first!

[Tigranes]

He already wrote fanfic for KOTOR by the way.

 

Now that was.... well, that was like watching the Casavir romance scene in NWN2 OC.

 

[Hell Kitty]

I believe the Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine is called 'the Oblivion engine'.

 

Gamebyro. Also used in Morrowind.

[Maria Caliban]

I believe the Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine is called 'the Oblivion engine'.

 

Gamebyro. Also used in Morrowind.

 

 

Seriously? The same engine that did Civ IV?

 

Edit: I miss Mr. Manhattan.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Maria Caliban

[Hell Kitty]

I believe the Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine is called 'the Oblivion engine'.

 

Gamebyro. Also used in Morrowind.

 

Seriously? The same engine that did Civ IV?

 

And a crapload of other stuff.

 

Edit: I miss Mr. Manhattan.

 

DJ Lance Rock murdered him.

[Maria Caliban]

That's impressive; if I ever have a kid, I'll have to make it with Gamebyro.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, Fallout 3 is based on Gamebryo. Not sure however if it also can make woman pregnant...

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

... doesn't Gamebryo's animations usually turn out utterly ****?

[Morgoth]

... doesn't Gamebryo's animations usually turn out utterly ****?

No. To me, it seems Bethesda just didn't bother using MoCapturing. Looks all hand animated to me. Not that this really bothers me too much.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I just can't stand Oblivion/Fallou 3 animation. So awful.

[Morgoth]

I just can't stand Oblivion/Fallou 3 animation. So awful.

It's like with every step you take you have to throw up a little bit huh?

[Rhomal]

I just can't stand Oblivion/Fallou 3 animation. So awful.

It's like with every step you take you have to throw up a little bit huh?

 

You guys reminded me of the peep in my forums that is hell bent with the stance FO3 isn't 'real' fallout unless it gets the blessing from the NMA and DaC folks. And since they say it isn't it HAS to be 'true'. *chuckle*

Edited January 15, 2009 by Rhomal

[LavenderGooms]

Not sure however if it also can make woman pregnant...

 

It can if DJ Lance Rock is using it!

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I just can't stand Oblivion/Fallou 3 animation. So awful.

It's like with every step you take you have to throw up a little bit huh?

 

You guys reminded me of the peep in my forums that is hell bent with the stance FO3 isn't 'real' fallout unless it gets the blessing from the NMA and DaC folks. And since they say it isn't it HAS to be 'true'. *chuckle*

I haven't played any Fallout game and Fallout 3 looks alright to me. I just honestly think the animation is terrible. Pretty much all of it.