Russia in Georgia

[Morgoth]

"Put up"? From whom was Georgia "put up" anyway? Right, the USA. And Sakkvhille (or whatever) started to bomb South Ossetia, so he should stop playing the victim there. To the Hague with him!

[Brdavs]

So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?

 

So if I understand you correctly Ossetians and Abkhazians should put up with being forced at gunpoint to live with the nationalistic "georgia to georgians" georgians just so Nato gets a foothold in the region Russia considers its vital iterest zone and we our interest perifery (and georgia wont get into nato with 2, count them 2, ethnic regions unofficialy independant yet unrecognized by the freedome equality etc loving world)?

 

Howcome the albanians didn`t have to "put up" with the serbs? Oh, camp bondsteel. Howcome Iraqis, Afghanistanis, Palestinians, Ira... you know what, nvm.

 

lol

[Volourn]

"US 'got away' with Iraq, I wonder who'll they gonna get away with next"

 

US didn't go into Iraq alone. They had quite a bit of support. Meanwhile, Russia had NOBODY. *shrug*

 

Nope, Russia didn't win any 'democractic' or 'political' war.

 

Russia did the invasion because they are still butthurt over them losing the Cold War and losing territory because they have too big an empire they couldn't keep the country together cause they FAIL. But, that's okay. Revenge for Cold War Butthurt tm is cool.

 

Then again, Russia has already threatened a 'strategic premeptive nuclear attack' on Poland. LMAO

 

Them Russians! FOR PEACE.

[Morgoth]

Russia invaded Georgia (not South Ossetia to protect the Russian citizens from that madman Saakhvillain) because Georgia pronouned martial law, silly. The only way to get rid of Russia now is a) defeat them (haha) or b) surrender. They certainly won't (and don't have to) pull out for good will. This madness is all Saakhvilles and his corrupt (and US supported) government faults, bombing Zchinwali out of the blue sky with 2000 civilian casualties. And Mrs Rice even shakes the hand with that bastard. Off to the Hague with him!

 

Edit: Here's a girls tale that supposedly was there during the Georgian bombing. Click

Edited August 16, 2008 by Morgoth

[Walsingham]

So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?

 

So if I understand you correctly Ossetians and Abkhazians should put up with being forced at gunpoint to live with the nationalistic "georgia to georgians" georgians just so Nato gets a foothold in the region Russia considers its vital iterest zone and we our interest perifery (and georgia wont get into nato with 2, count them 2, ethnic regions unofficialy independant yet unrecognized by the freedome equality etc loving world)?

 

Howcome the albanians didn`t have to "put up" with the serbs? Oh, camp bondsteel. Howcome Iraqis, Afghanistanis, Palestinians, Ira... you know what, nvm.

 

lol

 

 

Not at all. I'm not for a moment saying the Ossetians and Abkhazians have to put up with being occupied. My suggestion would be a Northern Ireland style political engagement. A process you can hardly claim we Brits are two-faced or uncommitted about this close to the anniversary of Enniskillen. Whereas by your rationale Britain would be perfectly within its rights to roll tanks within a few miles of Dublin because it's in our 'zone of interest'.

[Xard]

Russia invaded Georgia (not South Ossetia to protect the Russian citizens from that madman Saakhvillain) because Georgia pronouned martial law, silly. The only way to get rid of Russia now is a) defeat them (haha) or b) surrender. They certainly won't (and don't have to) pull out for good will. This madness is all Saakhvilles and his corrupt (and US supported) government faults, bombing Zchinwali out of the blue sky with 2000 civilian casualties. And Mrs Rice even shakes the hand with that bastard. Off to the Hague with him!

 

Edit: Here's a girls tale that supposedly was there during the Georgian bombing. Click

 

You know that inside Washington (well, based on few articles I read yesterday) Saakashvili is considered to be way too patriotic, obnoxious and hotheaded?

 

You can be sure Georgia's assault didn't have U.S's official or unofficial support

[Morgoth]

The US armed and trained Georgian troops. I wonder why? Prtotecting Saakvillain though definitely discredits US foreign politics for me. Russia, after all, had peacekeeping responsibilities in Soutossetia, but that doesn't change the fact that the US plays a dirty propaganda war now, protecting the georgina government and pushing all faults to Russia. I cross my fingers how this conflict will continue.

[Xard]

The US armed and trained Georgian troops. I wonder why? Prtotecting Saakvillain though definitely discredits US foreign politics for me. Russia, after all, had peacekeeping responsibilities in Soutossetia, but that doesn't change the fact that the US plays a dirty propaganda war now, protecting the georgina government and pushing all faults to Russia. I cross my fingers how this conflict will continue.

 

Training Georgian troops have been going on for how long already. SUPPORTING Georgia is no brainer in such area. That doesn't mean USA prefers "Saakvillain" to some other democratically elected (pro-west of course) leader.

 

The whole deal with Russia getting peacekeeping responsibilities (back in 90's) is contrived anyway.

 

I'm not defending Georgia, what I'm saying is that both sides are being gigantic **** here.

[Brdavs]

So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?

 

So if I understand you correctly Ossetians and Abkhazians should put up with being forced at gunpoint to live with the nationalistic "georgia to georgians" georgians just so Nato gets a foothold in the region Russia considers its vital iterest zone and we our interest perifery (and georgia wont get into nato with 2, count them 2, ethnic regions unofficialy independant yet unrecognized by the freedome equality etc loving world)?

 

Howcome the albanians didn`t have to "put up" with the serbs? Oh, camp bondsteel. Howcome Iraqis, Afghanistanis, Palestinians, Ira... you know what, nvm.

 

lol

 

 

Not at all. I'm not for a moment saying the Ossetians and Abkhazians have to put up with being occupied. My suggestion would be a Northern Ireland style political engagement. A process you can hardly claim we Brits are two-faced or uncommitted about this close to the anniversary of Enniskillen. Whereas by your rationale Britain would be perfectly within its rights to roll tanks within a few miles of Dublin because it's in our 'zone of interest'.

 

hohohoho, you sure you want to open up THAT can of worms lol? plenty of butter on *them* heads hehehe

 

 

And I assume the NI style arrangement would mean Abkhazia and Ossetia being a part of the Russian federation, that being the most natural connections(Ireland=georgia, NI=O&A and UK=RUS)? Perhaps Moscow would grant them autonomy they lost in georgia, only suspending it on occasions, like London does heh...

Edited August 16, 2008 by Brdavs

[Meshugger]

This is truth of all things today. It is not politics or idealism, or even some nice realpolitik. In the long run, it is all business.

 

[Bass-GameMaster]

It's ok. Russia may 'get away' with their attacking Georgia; but they keep it up they'll be back where they started after the Cold War. Heck, they've already started not so subtley threatening Poland with a 'strategic preemptive nuclear strike'. But, Russia is cool, I guess. *shrug*

 

L0LZ

 

 

US 'got away' with Iraq, I wonder who'll they gonna get away with next...but that's justified, because of liberty, justice, equality and other horse**** they 'stand for'...

 

Do you have any idea you what the hell your talking about?? People look at USA as some Huge bully with big guns and a big mouth. Truth is though anyone who has ever been our ally, we really dished out a great amount of resources and help towards them. Guess who was the first country to aide Georgia? USA Was the first to send supplies overseas to make sure they were alright. Do I think a conflict would be started? Well that depends on Russia. Many times have they avoided treatys and the crys of other countries. There is a pretty deep story behind the invasion though, which im not well aquainted with. Ive heard of Genocide...Re-taking Lost Land...Strategic Conquer... and many more. I was never a fan of bush after he made his decision in Iraq, but one thing was right about him. He knew how to finish what he started, you just dont send in forces and pull them out like some sort of dentist. He took charge on finishing the task at hand, why blame him?

 

And you Euro's out there I enjoy anyones company if they enjoy mine. Therefore I have no problem with British,Spanish, and hell even French. What I do have a problem with is when idiotic British(or whatever other)act like USA is some Virus spreading around telling lies and killing innocents. I am actually 1/4 spanish, but my ancestors have been traced back as far as possible and linked to some high end British. One of them was the man who owned the mayflower, Sir (im sure someone knows his name, I just woke up and not up for looking it up again) ****.

 

Anyways back on-topic Russia is getting paranoid about the anti-missle turrets we placed in Poland, they sound desperate even after there pathetic government collapsed. I think they are a loose cannon, but only time will tell.

[Walsingham]

I went back to my history books and dug up a couple of things from Stalin: the Court of the Red Tsar. Georgia was conquered by Russia between 1801 and 1870. It is "closer to Baghdad than Moscow".

 

As for Noerthern Ireland, you've missed my point entirely. I wasn't implying it had to be the same as Uk and Ireland (which is a lot closer than Russia and Georgia), but that a political NOT MILITARY engagement was the civilised option. Do you agree that the principle is sound?

[Rostere]

Do you have any idea you what the hell your talking about?? People look at USA as some Huge bully with big guns and a big mouth. Truth is though anyone who has ever been our ally, we really dished out a great amount of resources and help towards them. Guess who was the first country to aide Georgia? USA Was the first to send supplies overseas to make sure they were alright. Do I think a conflict would be started? Well that depends on Russia. Many times have they avoided treatys and the crys of other countries. There is a pretty deep story behind the invasion though, which im not well aquainted with. Ive heard of Genocide...Re-taking Lost Land...Strategic Conquer... and many more. I was never a fan of bush after he made his decision in Iraq, but one thing was right about him. He knew how to finish what he started, you just dont send in forces and pull them out like some sort of dentist. He took charge on finishing the task at hand, why blame him?

 

And you Euro's out there I enjoy anyones company if they enjoy mine. Therefore I have no problem with British,Spanish, and hell even French. What I do have a problem with is when idiotic British(or whatever other)act like USA is some Virus spreading around telling lies and killing innocents. I am actually 1/4 spanish, but my ancestors have been traced back as far as possible and linked to some high end British. One of them was the man who owned the mayflower, Sir (im sure someone knows his name, I just woke up and not up for looking it up again) ****.

 

Anyways back on-topic Russia is getting paranoid about the anti-missle turrets we placed in Poland, they sound desperate even after there pathetic government collapsed. I think they are a loose cannon, but only time will tell.

 

What does it matter if the US has any allies? If I could bribe the world into joining me in invading, say, Denmark, it wouldn't make it a lesser crime. And I don't see why you consider supporting a corrupt fascist regime like Saakashvilis a merit. The mere fact that Georgia is one of the few nations willing to partake in the war on Iraq just makes it even more farcical. Oh, I'm sure the US would gladly buy troops from Mugabe or any other third- world corrupt leaders of the same style and fashion, if they only could.

 

I don't understand with absolute certainty if you are trying to imply by stating that "Many times have they avoided treatys and the crys of other countries." that Russia is clearly the "bad guy", but I guess that by writing such a sentence you know nothing of the Kyoto Protocol? The Mine Ban treaty? The Comprehensive Test Ban treaty? The Convention on the Rights of the Child which forbids death penalty for minors (only countries that haven't signed are US and Somalia)? The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (voted against in the UN council only by Iraq, Qatar, Libya, Israel, the People's Republic of China, the United States, and Yemen)? All of these international treaties on environmentalism and humanitarianism have been rejected only by countries as North Korea, Israel, the US, China and various autocratic Islamic countries, i.e. your usual suspects for abusing human rights. To avoid embarassing self- contradictions, I would advise you to read up on the facts and to not shout so loud to other people that they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

I could perhaps understand why people are so eager to side with Georgia though, since it's such a cute and small country at war with the vast Evil Empire Russia. But that is a very narrow point of view. Just because a country is small does not mean it cannot also have a corrupt, nationalistic and downright stupid government. The Russians and the Georgians are in the same league, only difference is that one country is small and has lent soldiers to the US in the war on Iraq. There are simply no countries who are innocent, not Russia, not Georgia and not the US.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Rostere

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I am actually 1/4 spanish, but my ancestors have been traced back as far as possible and linked to some high end British. One of them was the man who owned the mayflower, Sir (im sure someone knows his name, I just woke up and not up for looking it up again) ****.

 

O RLY? The next thing we know you'll be telling us your great-grandmother is the honorary queen of Canada. Also, before I forget, I believe the Mayflower was owned -or at least commissioned- by a conglomeration of people, not just one man or woman, and thus your claim is already on shaky ground. I'll look up more information later if need be, but I am almost positive I am correct.

[Dark_Raven]

Long live the USSR!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Long live the USSR!

 

Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC

Didn't get to bed last night

Oh, the way the paper bag was on my knee

Man, I had a dreadful flight

I'm back in the USSR

You don't know how lucky you are, boy

Back in the USSR, yeah

 

Been away so long I hardly knew the place

Gee, it's good to be back home

Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case

Honey disconnect the phone

I'm back in the USSR

You don't know how lucky you are, boy

Back in the US

Back in the US

Back in the USSR

 

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out

They leave the west behind

And Moscow girls make me sing and shout

They Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

Oh, come on

Hu Hey Hu, hey, ah, yeah

yeah, yeah, yeah

I'm back in the USSR

You don't know how lucky you are, boys

Back in the USSR

 

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out

They leave the west behind

And Moscow girls make me sing and shout

They Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

 

Oh, show me round your snow peaked

mountain way down south

Take me to you daddy's farm

Let me hear you balalaika's ringing out

Come and keep your comrade warm

I'm back in the USSR

Hey, You don't know how lucky you are, boy

Back in the USSR

Oh, let me tell you honey...

[Volourn]

"I could perhaps understand why people are so eager to side with Georgia though, since it's such a cute and small country at war with the vast Evil Empire Russia."

 

Russia is still Butthurt over Cold War. Heck, they've already threatened Poland with a 'strategic preemtopive nuclear strike'. L0LZ

 

And, let's not forget that Russia invaded Georgia; not the other way around.

 

And, yeah: Georgia > Butthurt Russia any day of the week.

 

Georgia may not be 'innocent'; but it's not the failure known as Russia that was so full of itself it had to change its name L0LZ from USSR/Soviet Union to Russia or whatever. HAHAHAHA!

 

Because, multiple countries including georgia had enough being Butthurt like Russia is.

 

 

R00fles!

[Brdavs]

Volorun you *might* wanna think twice of what you type cos you`re embaressing yourself with your statements lol. Russia was part of the USSR, it didn`t change its name lolz. And today its Russian federation with some Republics including Russia lol.

 

And lets not forget Georgia went Serbia over Ossetians.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as poland radar instalations being a priority target for a preemptive nuclear strike and russian "buthurt" go... COMPLAN 8022 anyone?

 

ROFL

 

you`re giving canadians the bad name they have m8 lolz. Those crazy militants in washington repeatedly raise the arms race bar (this plan, withdrawl from several cold war agreements on weapons proliferation, balistic missle defense on border etc. etc. etc.) and you guys are *still* so blinded that they can pass the natural responses as "coldwar butthurt" and "soviet imperial tendencies" LMAO. Sheep the lot of you HAHAHAHA. Go die for king and country against the red threath if you will, I prefer to use my *brain* ROFLMAO.

 

Seems to me its washington being the one buhurt, but not from the CW, from Kremlin running circles around them in the oil business lol.

 

 

@Walsingham: ofcourse a political solution not a military one is more civilized and prefered. But since the political solution was not reached in the past 18 years and atm georgia still insists on not allowing them seceede, having the backing of the otherwise big fans of selfdetermination US and somewhat lukewarm spport of the EU, tell me, what "political solution" have the ossetians to look forward to heh? They`ll be reinstated the autonomy the nationalists stripped off them in 92 and they`ll live happly ever after with the people that didnt give much toss about diplomacy while they were the ones doing the rocketing, but promptly changed the tune when Russians started rocketing them in term?

Edited August 17, 2008 by Brdavs

[Walsingham]

@Walsingham: ofcourse a political solution not a military one is more civilized and prefered. But since the political solution was not reached in the past 18 years and atm georgia still insists on not allowing them seceede, having the backing of the otherwise big fans of selfdetermination US and somewhat lukewarm spport of the EU, tell me, what "political solution" have the ossetians to look forward to heh? They`ll be reinstated the autonomy the nationalists stripped off them in 92 and they`ll live happly ever after with the people that didnt give much toss about diplomacy while they were the ones doing the rocketing, but promptly changed the tune when Russians started rocketing them in term?

 

Political solutions take time, even generations. Look at Scotland and England. I can hardly suggest a peace deal knowing so little about the country, but geographically the case looks strong to be part of Georgia. What's the alternative? be part of a country with only one two lane road joining it (a Greater Ossetia)? Be a republic of only 70,000 people? That might work in Europe, where people want a posh tax haven, but I hardly think that is an option. In any case, my point stands. Better jaw jaw than war war, as Churchill said.

 

I'd also like some backup to the notion that the South Ossetians/Russians were totally blameless in the last few years. I've read articles on the BBC suggesting shelling into Georgia before the attack. Sounds to me like both sides were cracking away at each other.

[Morgoth]

Saakashvily trying to devour his tie. Click

 

That tells everything about that psychopath.

[Hildegard]

So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?

 

 

No.

 

Georgia has to put up with the invasion because they FIRST attacked S.Ossetia, they bombed cities with MLRS and howitzers thus trying to impose total control with brute force, too bad for them it backfired, now they're suffering the consequences of their own actions, what goes around comes around.

[Walsingham]

So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?

 

 

No.

 

Georgia has to put up with the invasion because they FIRST attacked S.Ossetia, they bombed cities with MLRS and howitzers thus trying to impose total control with brute force, too bad for them it backfired, now they're suffering the consequences of their own actions, what goes around comes around.

 

I'd also like some backup to the notion that the South Ossetians/Russians were totally blameless in the last few years. I've read articles on the BBC suggesting shelling into Georgia before the attack. Sounds to me like both sides were cracking away at each other.

[Hildegard]

I'd also like some backup to the notion that the South Ossetians/Russians were totally blameless in the last few years. I've read articles on the BBC suggesting shelling into Georgia before the attack. Sounds to me like both sides were cracking away at each other.

 

 

I've read somewhere...suggesting....sounds to me....prepositions, not facts.

 

Georgia shelled the capital of S. Ossetia with MLRS and Howitzer, that is no surgical strike but an attempt to brake havoc and disarray in the capital while Georgian ground forces take control, in the process many civilians die due to rather unselective bombing.

 

Russia was standing by in case something like this should happen, because violence started a few months earlier only to erupt recently, and sure you'll have a contingency in the form of the 58th Army group.

 

Of course Russians aren't flowers, but main blame, when it comes to the starters of this conflict, lies with the Georgian nationalists backed by the West, mostly US and the interests around the Caspian pipeline.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Um... Of course you don't have any king, Volourn. Last I checked the British monarchy was headed by a queen.

[Volourn]

Same crap just different body part.