Yay! So I finally picked up NWN2 + MotB

[Arkan]

Hey, just a quick question from somebody who soon plans to buy NWN2/MotB: is dialogue scripted? If so, will it trigger on the first party member the script sees, or the party leader?

 

One thing I hated about IWD2 was having my diplomat sorc at the back to avoid death, but having my dumb barbarian activate all dialogues because he's at the front.

 

All dialog is initiated with the PC. Companions only interject, at least from what I've seen. So any companion with speech skills is useless.

 

Everyone else:

 

I set up a ranger with a 14 cha, background, and a few feats to allow for maximum dialog skills without nerfing the character, but I still seem to fail most of the checks. Are the skill checks arbitrary, or do you actually roll a D20? Because it seems as though someone who has those as class skills and maxes them out are the only ones who can really make use of the skills. It's just dumb design (not NWN2, but the ruleset) to disallow fighter characters these option based on a faulty premise. I found a bit of a cheap work around, though. Simply take able learner and one level of rogue, and voila, all dialog skills are open. It shouldn't be necessary, but there you go.

 

And samm, druids do get persuasion, so rangers can max out those skills, where a straight ranger cannot.

[Matthew Rorie]

I could be very mistaken (and the prospects for embarrassment are a lot higher now that I actually work at Obsidian), but I never noticed any differences in failing/passing dialogue checks when I reloaded saves when I played through NWN2. I'm guessing that they use some set value instead of rolling a random d20. (Although if you're missing "most" of the checks then I would imagine that something is going awry.) I also suspect that some of the dialogue checks are red herrings and are nearly impossible to pass (for story purposes) even if you've invested heavily in the speechcraft skills.

[Arkan]

I could be very mistaken (and the prospects for embarrassment are a lot higher now that I actually work at Obsidian), but I never noticed any differences in failing/passing dialogue checks when I reloaded saves when I played through NWN2. I'm guessing that they use some set value instead of rolling a random d20. (Although if you're missing "most" of the checks then I would imagine that something is going awry.) I also suspect that some of the dialogue checks are red herrings and are nearly impossible to pass (for story purposes) even if you've invested heavily in the speechcraft skills.

 

 

If that's the case, then that's bad design. Why even have the option there if you can't possibly accomplish it? Keep the dialog option, but get rid of the dum [skill] descriptor.

 

Anyway, I think I accomplished what I set out to do. I'm working on several builds, one of them is a dexterity-based fighter. Took one level of rogue and able learner to get all the dialog skills, plus the added bonus of UMD (great for a fighter!) and the ability to add 1d6 to a bunch of your attacks

 

 

 

Next issue:

 

Party AI/Control

 

I turned on puppet mode in hopes of getting an experience more akin to IE games, and less like the dumb NWN1 AI (not improved at all). It all worked great until I went into battle with some bandits. I had my party focus on the archers first, so i've got two characters deep in the fray, while the third is lobbing arrows. Well, my archer needs a drink so I select her had us a potion. I unpause and what happens? The other two characters coming charging after me, provoking AoOs = dead party. This has happened several times with several characters...what "interesting" design "choices."

[Tigranes]

I believe there are very few, something like one or two, checks that are actually impossible.

 

I have no idea what happened with the puppet mode there, puppet mode = they shouldn't be doing anything you don't tell them to. Either you had all characters selected by mistake (very easy) or.. yeah. The mechanics are actually fine now if you turn off the AI, the problem is the clunky controls that Obsidian was forced to add in for NWN2/MOTB, because they weren't present in the original Aurora.

[Starwars]

I actually like having a few impossible skill checks in there. I think a goal these RPGs should try to strive for is making the player think about what he does. As it stands now, I suspect players will always reach for that skill check option, no matter how absurd it might actually be.

 

Granted, it should never be so much that the dialogue skills feel useless. And the instances of impossible checks should really be well thought out and logical, so that it doesn't feel like the game is simply baiting the player only to say "haha".

[SteveThaiBinh]

Memory can deceive of course, but I believe that the diplomacy/persuade check when you (very mild spoilers)

return to Fort Locke with its captain

is something I've failed, then reloaded and succeed with.

[Spider]

Party AI/Control

 

I turned on puppet mode in hopes of getting an experience more akin to IE games, and less like the dumb NWN1 AI (not improved at all). It all worked great until I went into battle with some bandits. I had my party focus on the archers first, so i've got two characters deep in the fray, while the third is lobbing arrows. Well, my archer needs a drink so I select her had us a potion. I unpause and what happens? The other two characters coming charging after me, provoking AoOs = dead party. This has happened several times with several characters...what "interesting" design "choices."

 

Yeah, it does this. I think it's when you click on a character instead of the portrait or something like that. If you do a Broadcast Command -> Hold your ground, that could help. Although it needs to be done with two characters, since the one giving the order the first time obviously won't be affected by it.

[deganawida]

Memory can deceive of course, but I believe that the diplomacy/persuade check when you (very mild spoilers)

return to Fort Locke with its captain

is something I've failed, then reloaded and succeed with.

 

That one will fail no matter what

unless you use Intimidate. At that point, you'll still fail, but the dwarf and tiefling will back you up and help with the checks, causing the two guards to leave. You still have to fight the captain, though.

 

[Arkan]

I just hit a pretty serious bug:

 

 

I got to Fort Locke, and decided I should return to that inn to buy some better armor before doing the quests. So I leave through the northern exit and the little cutscene with Elanee plays. After doing everything at the fort, I head to Highcliff, and I get the message saying you encountered something along the way. I click ok, and it just sits there at the fort. I can move Khelgar and Neeshka around, but my pc is stuck and can't move due to state or something. So I leave with Neeshka, and it takes me directly to Highcliff, and I don't get the detour to the druid grove, thus no Elanee.

 

 

What should I do?

Edited May 5, 2008 by Arkan

[Gorgon]

When is westgate comming out, anyone in the loop ?

[Arkan]

Nevermind, I figured it out. Just had to exit the game and re load

[Starwars]

When is westgate comming out, anyone in the loop ?

 

I believe that basically noone knows anything. Obsidian is working on implementing the DRM thing into a patch, but we don't know whether it will make it in 1.13 (which shouldn't be much longer I think) or a later one.

[taks]

Nevermind, I figured it out. Just had to exit the game and re load

i had the same problem once, and i think the same resolution.

 

taks

[Gorgon]

When is westgate comming out, anyone in the loop ?

 

I believe that basically noone knows anything. Obsidian is working on implementing the DRM thing into a patch, but we don't know whether it will make it in 1.13 (which shouldn't be much longer I think) or a later one.

Would be nice if they could replace the patch mess with just one integrated patch in Westgate. I just tried reinstalling NWN 2 and mask of the betrayer. Apparently you have to do that in a special order, I upgraded after installing NWN, then installed Mask and autoupdated some more. The camera improvements aren't there, but the game version looks correct.

 

Why no one thought of using the right mouse button to pan the camera is beyond me. Instead there is a useless drop down menu, but thats another matter.

[Arkan]

When is westgate comming out, anyone in the loop ?

 

I believe that basically noone knows anything. Obsidian is working on implementing the DRM thing into a patch, but we don't know whether it will make it in 1.13 (which shouldn't be much longer I think) or a later one.

Would be nice if they could replace the patch mess with just one integrated patch in Westgate. I just tried reinstalling NWN 2 and mask of the betrayer. Apparently you have to do that in a special order, I upgraded after installing NWN, then installed Mask and autoupdated some more. The camera improvements aren't there, but the game version looks correct.

 

Why no one thought of using the right mouse button to pan the camera is beyond me. Instead there is a useless drop down menu, but thats another matter.

 

You can assign the right mouse button to pan the camera, I think. Its default is X, though. I just wish you could lock the vertical angle.

[Gorgon]

yes, but that doesn't work very well because the free camera pan is at blinding speed and there is no way to lower it without also lowering mouse speed to a crawl.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Gorgon

[Arkan]

So far I'm really liking this game, bugs and awful AI aside. The characters, quests, and story is enough to keep me playing. That's the bad thing, though. It's doing bad things to me...I'm staying up til 3 am playing like I haven't since....uh...Morrowind I think. I've got to stop!

 

Good job so far Obs! Hope it doesn't fall through the floor like KotORII at the end. Can't wait to get to MotB, as I've heard it's stellar.

[Tigranes]

Definitely doesn't fall through the floor this time, the OC ending is pretty decent and what you'd expect from such a standard high fantasy campaign, MOTB's is very, very satisfying.

[Arkan]

Just realized something that takes the game down a notch. Stealth is pretty much worthless. Here's why:

 

 

 

I'm doing the Collector's House quest with Neeshka, so figured, ''Hey, leave everyone else at the front of the house, and really sneak my way through." Fat chance. I can open and close the first door, but as I make my move to sneak around, I'm immediately discovered and attacked! Her sneak skill is maxed out and has a high dex score of course. Why even have quests like this if the only thing you can do is charge in like a fracking barbarian and trash the place? This is supposed to be a thief's mission. And there are three places in the house where dialog is force scripted and teleports the pc right there. So you pretty much have to treat it like any other dungeon: run in, kill enemies, fight boss.

 

 

What a stupid design decision and great waste of potential, Obs

[Kelverin]

Definitely doesn't fall through the floor this time, the OC ending is pretty decent and what you'd expect from such a standard high fantasy campaign, MOTB's is very, very satisfying.

The ending of the OC is good, but the narrator is terrible, they should definitely fix that (if they haven't already)

[Gorth]

What a stupid design decision and great waste of potential, Obs

That one, and the enemy instant (re)spawning, which makes your tracking skill worthless just about every place where it could have been useful

[Tigranes]

I forget what the collector's house is, but yes, neither Bioware nor Obsidian have ever done stealth properly at all since the Infinity Engine. The teleporting-PCs-just-so-the-guy-can-talk-to-him is insane, the enemies instantly respawning behind your back is even worse and I don't think there's enough visual signifiers to tell you when you have been detected; in IE you 'phased in' and you could see that in the avatar and hear the sound, or at least, the text on the bottom telling you you're being targeted. In the Aurora engine it's much harder.

 

Aurora did a pretty good job of implementing traps, but with stealth so broken it's hard to do a real proper heist.

[Deraldin]

Just realized something that takes the game down a notch. Stealth is pretty much worthless. Here's why:

 

 

 

I'm doing the Collector's House quest with Neeshka, so figured, ''Hey, leave everyone else at the front of the house, and really sneak my way through." Fat chance. I can open and close the first door, but as I make my move to sneak around, I'm immediately discovered and attacked! Her sneak skill is maxed out and has a high dex score of course. Why even have quests like this if the only thing you can do is charge in like a fracking barbarian and trash the place? This is supposed to be a thief's mission. And there are three places in the house where dialog is force scripted and teleports the pc right there. So you pretty much have to treat it like any other dungeon: run in, kill enemies, fight boss.

 

 

What a stupid design decision and great waste of potential, Obs

 

I cheated and jacked up my Dex to 50 and snuck through the house. First time one guy caught me and followed me around but because of my high AC he couldn't hit me. Finally managed to score a critical on me just as I was walking through a room with about a dozen other people and it broke my stealth.

 

Second time through I managed to get through without anyone spotting me. The conversations still triggered as normal, but they don't break your stealth. Of course none of that matters if your stealth character isn't your main character.

[samm]

I actually managed to get through without neeshka being seen If you always close doors behind her, the dialogue-and-teleport issue won't attract all guards (if any at all, it's been some time...).

[Arkan]

Odd question.

 

For curiosity's sake, I wanted to see if I could make a viable monk build that was like an armored tank. So I create a STR based half-orc, and take a level of fighter. So far, as far as I can tell, Flurry of Blows still works in heavy armor, but of course I lose the monk/WIS ac and speed bonuses. I'm fine with that, as it makes sense from an RP standpoint, too, but what totally kills it for me is the retarded monk kick animation. It's the only one that the monk does. There are no punching animations, which there are, because as an unarmed fighter there are punches, even other kicks.

 

So, is there any way to make it so my character punches and kicks like an unarmed fighter instead of a monk (who, again, uses only one kicking animation)? Maybe change the appearance using the console to 'trick' the game? I found this code:

 

Set Appearance # Makes your character have the appearance of the # in the res ref table of the 2da appearance file...*Note this is just appearance*

 

Could this possible work? I'm willing to give in a shot. What would the code be? Anyone?