Bioware - Are Their Games Actually That Good?

[Pidesco]

Zelda is awesome and all, but it's as much a RPG as Devil May Cry is.

[Laozi]

yeah, thats a dubious list even for a copy-n-paste from wiki

[thepixiesrock]

How many of those aren't JRPGs?

[Kelverin]

yeah, thats a dubious list even for a copy-n-paste from wiki

WRONG, but thanks for playing. Gamespot http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs/unive...g_hs/first.html

 

Zelda is awesome and all, but it's as much a RPG as Devil May Cry is.

That's the point of the list, there are not many true RPG on consoles. Even less quality ones. Which is what I said in the first place.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Kelverin

[Pidesco]

How many of those aren't JRPGs?

 

The Legend of Zelda

Shadowrun

Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen

 

 

At least these ones aren't.

[Laozi]

yeah I used to play Shadowrun all the time, and still **** around with it on some sims.

 

 

ummmm, game over man, game over?

Edited May 14, 2008 by Laozi

[Nick_i_am]

There's a lot of crap CRPGs too, as well as a lot of games that we can argue over being CRPGs or not, I don't get his point.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[thepixiesrock]

So, KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect aren't console RPGs? And console RPGs are just JRPGs?

[Pidesco]

I'd say KOTOR is like the retarded, bastard son of a western RPG and a JRPG.

[Morgoth]

KOTOR-bashers obviously never heard of a game called "Fable".

[Hurlshort]

I'm a bit surprised by the bashing of KotOR on these boards. Do you people also dislike KotOR II? Considering that makes up about half of this forum's reason for existence, I'm a bit surprised you would spend time here.

[Xard]

What you're talking about? Minimal amount of forum members use KotOR sections mainly

 

That said there's no way one can with honest face say Kotors are BAD games. They're not masterpieces but solid games, in my opinion both are good. And KotOR II has some of the best characters ever as well as great plot. Not even combat is that bad it is sometimes made to be here

Edited May 14, 2008 by Xard

[Kelverin]

Personally I liked KotOR on the PC a whole bunch. The combat was weak but a fun game. Waiting on the restoration project to start KotOR 2

[Meshugger]

The only one not liking the KotORs is Volourn, the rest are either neutral or slightly positive or even fanboys (like me).

[Morgoth]

At least half of the Kotor2 cast was worthless. Kreia was good, HK-47, that arrogant "Yes what can you do for me" robot....uh, yes, Mandalore were well done. The rest was forgetable. Kotor 1 is still the better of those two. I'm not averse for a Kotor3 made by Obsidian though.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Morgoth

[Hurlshort]

What you're talking about? Minimal amount of forum members use KotOR sections mainly

 

That said there's no way one can with honest face say Kotors are BAD games. They're not masterpieces but solid games, in my opinion both are good. And KotOR II has some of the best characters ever as well as great plot. Not even combat is that bad it is sometimes made to be here

 

I'm not talking about using the forum, I'm talking about the fact that this forum in its entirety is dedicated to Obsidian. It would seem odd to hang out here if you weren't a fan of at least one of their titles.

 

It was really directed more at Pidesco and his retarded bastard comment.

[Kelverin]

What you're talking about? Minimal amount of forum members use KotOR sections mainly

 

That said there's no way one can with honest face say Kotors are BAD games. They're not masterpieces but solid games, in my opinion both are good. And KotOR II has some of the best characters ever as well as great plot. Not even combat is that bad it is sometimes made to be here

 

I'm not talking about using the forum, I'm talking about the fact that this forum in its entirety is dedicated to Obsidian. It would seem odd to hang out here if you weren't a fan of at least one of their titles.

I believe some came over from Black Isle and Mistresses forum, at least thats how I arrived. I am a big fan of NWN 2 and it's expansion. Can't stand NWN.

[thepixiesrock]

A lot of the regulars joined when KOTOR 2 was in development.

[mkreku]

I'm not a fan of either KotOR2 or NWN2. In fact, I could never bring myself to finish KotOR2 (although I finished KotOR..) and I still have NWN2 sitting unused on my computer, waiting to be finished.. sometime.. in the future..

 

I don't know why I am here. I think it's because I loved Fallout and I somehow still believe this gang had something to do with those games. Now my hopes are turned to Alpha Protocol, which so far sounds like something I could really enjoy. Unless they bring in magic and **** in that game too.

[Pidesco]

What you're talking about? Minimal amount of forum members use KotOR sections mainly

 

That said there's no way one can with honest face say Kotors are BAD games. They're not masterpieces but solid games, in my opinion both are good. And KotOR II has some of the best characters ever as well as great plot. Not even combat is that bad it is sometimes made to be here

 

I'm not talking about using the forum, I'm talking about the fact that this forum in its entirety is dedicated to Obsidian. It would seem odd to hang out here if you weren't a fan of at least one of their titles.

 

It was really directed more at Pidesco and his retarded bastard comment.

 

Well, my jab was me trying to point out that I think KotOR was Bioware's attempt at trying to make BG2 in way that'd be attractive to the average console 'tard. Not that I think that console players are 'tards, but rather that a lot of PC devs who made the console jump, design their games as if they think console players are 'tards.

 

 

As for KotOR, I did enjoy it the first time, mostly because it felt like a step up from NWN1's OC and I was playing a jedi in an RPG for the first time. Other than that, I thought the combat was pretty bad, the main characters were atrocious, the minigames were lame, and playing an evil Jedi Forcebully was underwhelming to say the least. Basically, the gameplay felt like BG2 for dummies. Also, as nowadays I'm sick and tired of Star Wars, I've begun to see KotOR in a more negative light.

 

The best about KotOR1 was that it felt like Star Wars, while the best about KotOR2 was that it didn't feel like Star Wars.

[RangerSG]

Regarding KotOR and KotOR2...intially the first was very good to me. Though there were some cumbersome issues (like weapon switching) in the first one, I thought for the most part it was enjoyable. I also don't get the BG2 comparison, because the main story has nothing in common to BG2 (though it does have the Bastila/Aribeth element, that is hardly the whole story). And the twist was well written. Well written enough that subsequent playthroughs were fun looking for the hints you'd been left of the payoff. I agree that evil was primarily thugish evil. That said, you could go through essentially playing a LS Jedi, get to the reveal, turn believably at that point, and if you saved Korriban for last, act entirely in character the rest of the way.

 

However, the lack of options in K1 has caused me to lose interest over time. K2 left a bitter taste in my mouth at first, because of it's brutally unfinished state. Every game has cut content, but I've never seen a game with such gaping holes before in a major release. But the game has grown on me over time, unlike the original. Partly because you have more options, and partly because it's an interesting story concept that took several playthroughs to piece together entirely. To make sense of the whole picture, you 'have' to play LS male (for Atris), LS female (for Mical's information and Kreia's 'teasing' of him), and DS at least once each. So while K1 left a far superior initial impression, K2 is easily the more replayable game.

 

Regarding NWN2 and lack of customization. The fact that you can't change individual armor pieces is annoying. The lack of dyeing options, the general lack of personalization options you are given for your PC. The fact it took much too long to allow for creature customization through a granny plug-in. The simple fact is NWN2 out of the box made life very hard on the module making community...and it is only now becoming more acceptable. And still not as it should be.

Edited May 14, 2008 by RangerSG

[Tigranes]

Basically, the gameplay felt like BG2 for dummies.

 

Got to say I agree here. If, from the beginning of the Playstation generation, PC devs moving to the console took a more optimistic and daring approach, I think the tastes of console RPGers might have been a lot more refined by now - products breed taste, in this day and age, more than the other way round.

 

Look at the huge success of FF7. I'm not going to debate the merits of the game itself, but it made the players do a lot of grinding. It made them look under every nook and cranny for hidden goods. It made them keep track of ridiculously long-term dialogue variables for payoffs 20 hours later in the game. It offered ridiculous sidequests which required hours of careful chocobo breeding, finding that one guy in some remote place to talk about that thing, or stealing that item from that boss before he killed you. The character development system offered some very 'munchkin' optimisations or exploitations that required not only grinding but planning and calculations. This isn't to argue that the game as a whole is 'complex' in the sense that PS:T or even BG2 is: I'm not going into that argument. What I am saying is, the console players were willing to put up with a lot of makework; a lot of meticulous searching; a lot of planning. If they applied that kind of thinking in playing a hypothetical console version of BG2:SoA, would they have been so alienated, so put off? Would it have been such a struggle? They had no problem with turn-based, either. The only real new challenge would have been the volume of dialogue and the choices involved.

 

It's a pity.

[Pidesco]

When I compared BG2 to KotOR, I wasn't talking about the plot, but rather the gameplay, and NPC development. It's the same core game, except that you control fewer characters thus removing much of the tactical gameplay in BG2, the roleplaying system is more limited, and the combat is a lot easier. Finally, NPC development is tied to your level instead of depending on time spent together, and location.

 

As for the plot, the twist was terribly hamfisted, and could be seen coming from a mile away, by a blind man standing in fog, wearing sunglasses, an eyepatch and with his hands over his eyes. Other than that, it did the job of keeping the game going.

[Tigranes]

I thought it was a standard Star Wars plot... about as good as that of Jedi Knight II and Jedi Academy, actually. But then, BG1/2's storylines weren't that far above your standard fantasy fare, either: it was all about the delivery in-game and how the plot was related to what you actually did, in which BG series did very well. In KOTOR it's not quite as strong in that aspect, but it does pull you along nicely. The twist was hamfisted, but nowhere as bad as Jade Empire's.

[Pidesco]

I think the characters were a lot stronger in BG2 than in KOTOR, although that was, at least partially, due to presentation.