Politics Rant Thread

[alanschu]

There's a provincial election coming up here in Alberta, and combined with all the fun discussion going on south of the border, politics is a hot topic.

 

I find it annoying because people ask me my opinion on the stuff in the States, as well as locally, and when I tell them, unless my views match up with theirs perfectly, people either bite their tongues, let slip "well that's because....nevermind..." or just outright tell me I am wrong.

 

It's quite a bit annoying and I am totally disenfranchised with the whole thing. It has gotten to a point where I simply do not discuss politics with anyone anymore.

 

 

You will never find me judging someone because their political views do not coincide with mine. Why do I always feel judged, often by my closest friends (they are typically the tongue biters or have the "well that's because...nevermind" type comments).

 

 

Anyways, that's my minirant.

[Sand]

The one reason I like discussing politics is because I just like to argue. Win or lose, it is the argument that matters to me. You can often get an insight of how people think when they argue with you, especially when you start pressing their little pet peeves. As long as neither side takes it too seriously, the bantering back and forth can be quite fun.

[Meshugger]

It is simple. I don't care if someone start to judge me or my opinions (IRL). It's their problem, not mine.

 

Bear in mind, i am not "My way or the highway"-kinda-guy with a**holish tendencies, when discussing politics and philosophy at work, or with friends and family.

 

Just voice your opinions in reasonable manner, and it will be ok

[Pop]

There's really no way of avoiding politics. I think it's summed up pretty neatly in the dilemma of the man who doesn't vote. He recuses himself from the process, but the process goes on despite him, and he's affected by it under whatever policies and administrations are instituted in his absence. Given that passivity doesn't really get us anywhere, the best thing we can do is discuss matters of politics to influence one another.

[Gorth]

I wonder where that leaves people like me?

 

I never cared much for politics, previously always held politicians in contempt and for a number of years now, I've been living in places where I can't vote for anything anyway.

[Walsingham]

I remember an advertisement here one time, that ran along these lines.

 

Citizen: "I don't like talking politics. I think it's boring, and doesn't really affect me."

 

And the guy is sitting in a pub (licensing hours), drinking (customs and excise), watching sport (government funding) on the television (govt regulated). he reaches into his pocket to get cash, and he hasn't much money (taxes).

 

I understand people who won't talk politics. I just would like to help them understand it better so they'd find it more interesting.

[alanschu]

I still vote. I make informed decisions based on party platforms and so on.

 

 

I guess I just find discussing politics rather predictable. I almost got involved a few times on this forum, and I do sometimes make the odd comment, and the responses are pretty predictable. Sand will make a comment one way, Guard Dog will address it in a certain way, Taks will say something, and so on.

 

 

I guess the thing I find is people fit so neatly into various voter archetypes that it's no longer really interesting. I guess the thing I have noticed is that it's always the same. I rarely have a political discussion where something novel is actually contributed. It seems I have heard it all before.

[Nick_i_am]

You can often get an insight of how people think when they argue

 

haha, Irony bonus.

[Walsingham]

It seems I have heard it all before.

 

If that were true it would be awesome.

[alanschu]

I guess I frequently start sentences with I guess.

[Qwerty the Sir]

There's really no way of avoiding politics. I think it's summed up pretty neatly in the dilemma of the man who doesn't vote. He recuses himself from the process, but the process goes on despite him, and he's affected by it under whatever policies and administrations are instituted in his absence. Given that passivity doesn't really get us anywhere, the best thing we can do is discuss matters of politics to influence one another.

 

I remember an advertisement here one time, that ran along these lines.

 

Citizen: "I don't like talking politics. I think it's boring, and doesn't really affect me."

 

And the guy is sitting in a pub (licensing hours), drinking (customs and excise), watching sport (government funding) on the television (govt regulated). he reaches into his pocket to get cash, and he hasn't much money (taxes).

 

I understand people who won't talk politics. I just would like to help them understand it better so they'd find it more interesting.

 

Understand what you guys are saying and it's true that these little everyday government policy things affect me a lot and I'll address it later, but I'm one of those guys you speak of. Never bothered registered to vote and probably never will.

 

This despite all the pressures at my school to get people to vote and vote for their causes which range from "No Homos in Heaven" to "Students for a Sensible Drug Policy".

 

You get dozens of flyers handed to you everyday just walking outside and are nagged and harassed all the time to either register to vote or vote for a candidate. This will probably get worse with the major 2008 election going on unfortunately.

 

Now, getting to how it affects me, I really don't see how it does in any major way depending on who is in charge.

 

Yes I'm beginning to pay taxes and have had to to pay sales taxes and car insurance and so on, but I honestly really can't say there is much of a difference between President Clinton and President Bush in terms of how these things have affected me or my family. I can't even remember the names of my local politicians. I don't think I've ever learned their names. We've done pretty much of the same as far back as I can remember.

 

I doubt that when we get a new President it will change much either. My daily life will probably be unaffected. I'll be paying these things that I've always payed but so what? The slight fluctuations that may occur in prices and payments depending on the candidate in charge aren't going to be significant enough for me to pay much heed.

 

I guess this is what I and maybe others like me mean when saying "it doesn't affect me". Of course the government affects me, but it doesn't really matter who's in the government. At least that's how it's been for the last two Presidents.

[Walsingham]

Qwerty, I have to say I was alittle surprised to hear you're not even registered, but aftr reading the rest of your post I guess I understand a little better.

 

I'll have to think on my comeback*.

 

*Which means I intend to cheat and ask my learned friends for an argument.

[spartan117]

HaHaHa Ignorance will make you suffer... Inflation, war, civil rights are all determined by what the people vote. Your daily life is affected. The president/prime minister/etc can control through their actions: how much you pay for rent, utilities, groceries and consumer goods, your rights, if you have to hide out because of war, taxes on everything you buy, safety of your town/city through storm precautions, prevention of terrorism at the super bowl when Osama Bin Ladin can't blow it up, etc, etc, I've only scratched the surface. Pretty much being ignorant won't hurt you; enough votes are usually cast, but be lucky most people don't choose this unwise path of ignorance because it leads to a nation uncontrolled by the people, by choice of the people ironically.

[Enoch]

Well, the purely rational approach is to avoid politics. In environments the size of modern Western democracies, the marginal impact of one citizen adding his/her efforts to a particular cause approaches zero. Instead, a rational person chooses to free-ride on the efforts of his/her more civic-minded (and less rational-minded) neighbors.

 

Politics is a pure example of the Shaw quote in Gromnir's signature-- all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

[Hell Kitty]

I love you, alanschu.

[alanschu]

Awww thanks!

[Guard Dog]

There's a provincial election coming up here in Alberta, and combined with all the fun discussion going on south of the border, politics is a hot topic.

 

I find it annoying because people ask me my opinion on the stuff in the States, as well as locally, and when I tell them, unless my views match up with theirs perfectly, people either bite their tongues, let slip "well that's because....nevermind..." or just outright tell me I am wrong.

 

It's quite a bit annoying and I am totally disenfranchised with the whole thing. It has gotten to a point where I simply do not discuss politics with anyone anymore.

 

 

You will never find me judging someone because their political views do not coincide with mine. Why do I always feel judged, often by my closest friends (they are typically the tongue biters or have the "well that's because...nevermind" type comments).

 

 

Anyways, that's my minirant.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from. But I look at it in a different way. People like me go looking for someone who disagrees with them and wants to discuss it. I frequent forums like this one and libertypost.org because I find the political forums on the internet are extremely monolithic when it comes to ideology. For example, I've been banned from freerepublic.com and democratunderground.com because I go there and try to debate politics, not to rant and have everyone agree with me. However most forums (like those two) will not tolerate opposing viewpoints. That to me is depressing because if you never hear someone else

[Enoch]

Case in point, Capital Punishment. I was once an advocate in favor of it until someone in a forum much like this one (it might even have been this one) pointed out to me that "if I don't trust the government to do anything right how can I trust them to decide who lives or dies". I thought about that for a long time and realized they were right.

Egad... That might have been me!

[Tigranes]

So you see, political, moral, religious, whatever kind of debate is helpful and positive because it forces you to think about WHY you believe the way you do and WHY someone else believes differently.

 

Very, very true. Leaving the validity of the Christian religion out for a moment, if there is one thing I picked up from my home education, my university degree and my church activities (whether they intended it or not), it is that you must question what exactly is it you believe? Why do you believe this, and what made you believe this? Can we imagine different perspectives from which one may believe something different, even something diametrically opposed? And, coming back into the realm of practicality, What are the personal *and* social consequences of my belief? Ultimately it's about consciously choosing and refining your beliefs, instead of having them handed on a platter and having them control you.

 

And I believe that is/should be the aim of religion, science, academia, education, these discussions, whatever.

[alanschu]

Case in point, Capital Punishment. I was once an advocate in favor of it until someone in a forum much like this one (it might even have been this one) pointed out to me that "if I don't trust the government to do anything right how can I trust them to decide who lives or dies". I thought about that for a long time and realized they were right.

Egad... That might have been me!

 

 

Haha, I have had my share of anti-capital punishment discussion too, so I want some credit.

 

 

I can see where you are coming from Guard Dog. I guess it's just that in my experience, for the most part, I find people completely unyielding in their position and frequently it just gets hostile.

[Guard Dog]

Haha, I have had my share of anti-capital punishment discussion too, so I want some credit.

 

 

I can see where you are coming from Guard Dog. I guess it's just that in my experience, for the most part, I find people completely unyielding in their position and frequently it just gets hostile.

 

Well, what do you know! Enoch and I finally agree on something! But you see, he hit me with a perspective I had not thought about before and it changed my mind on the issue. That is the value of debate.

 

When it comes to political discussion there are two kinds of people kool-aid drinkers and critical thinkers. I'd like to think I'm one of the latter. Kool-aid drinkers think what the think but never ask themselves why. They know little about opposing viewpoints and reject all counter arguments out of hand without ever considering the logic behind them. We have a few here. They are given to hyperbole and often just repeat talking points they heard or read elsewhere. These are the people who get angry when you disagree with them and get nasty and insulting when you start challenging the strength of their beliefs. They get hostile because they cannot intellectually argue why they believe the way they do and frustrated because if they can't explain why they think that way they cannot ever convince YOU to think that way. So when it happens just laugh because you know you're smarter than they are!

 

I don't think I have ever really tried to change someones mind on any issue. I just want them to see the logic of my argument. If they do they might find a flaw in their own belief and change their mind themselves. It has happened before.