What I want to see in KOTOR II

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

And how they did it DIDN'T look cheesy? Just depends on who you ask.

 

I can accept the fact that Yoda can fight. I just don't see why being able to 'fight' mandates that you be a pinball muppet. As I said, I didn't find the method they used to be all THAT bad. Just think a more Force-centric technique would make sense for him. Though I guess the Force could ping him around the room as well as it can anything else.

 

-Akari

Thats pretty much how I would imagine a creature like Yodo to fight with a sword. Force speed and force jump accounts for the rest.

[Opus131]

I dont know why people have such a hard time accepting that Yoda can actually fight

 

Because it's silly ?!? I mean, here we a 900 years old little creature who can berely walk and who will die of old age in a few years jumping around like crazed wolverine high on angel dust.

 

When i saw that the first time i really had an hard time controlling myself from laughting my eyeballs out...

[Cantousent]

I thought it looked funny. ...But I also thought it looked cool. I only saw the episode once, but when I saw it the theater erupted into applause when he started laying the smack down.

[tripleRRR]

That whole scene in the cave was one of the worst sword duels I have ever seen in my entire life, I was hoping for something at least as good as the one with Maul in Ep 1 but no, Lucas thinks a puppet flying all over the place is cool.

 

:angry:

 

 

TripleRRR

[Gorth]

It was probably a deliberate design decision, to avoid people getting fed up with yet another lengthy light saber battle, having already seen plenty of that in the movie.

 

So the goblin shaman turns into Kermit the Ninja frog, and provides a bit of comic relief. At least it was unexpected (for me anyway).

 

Appropriate for the situation or not, I like it when people at least try to add a little variety.

[Opus131]

It was probably a deliberate design decision, to avoid people getting fed up with yet another lengthy light saber battle, having already seen plenty of that in the movie.

How about no light saber fight in the first place ?!?

 

Frankly, i was expecting Yoda to put Dokku in his place with an unprecedented and original use of the force, but nay, Lucas had to throw in yet another light saber fight, and a immensely stupid one at that, ho lord, how original of his...

 

And by God, what's with Dokku's line before the light saber duel ?!? A dark sith using the language of a 13 years old isn't something i want to see again...

[tripleRRR]

The ending of Episode II sucked in general, the cool but way too short battle, the wussy lightsaber fight between Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Dooku. And last but not least the awful yoda fight.

 

 

TripleRRR

[kumquatq3]

Phosphor just mentioned this to me:

 

I'm currently at the bottom of the ocean, trapsing around in the very slooooooow environmental suit.

 

Please don't make me move around in those suits again! It was SOOOOOO boring and I dreaded every minute of it. It wasn't even fun the first time. Worst part of the game, imo.

[Phosphor]

And as I further commented to Kumquat, suddenly one is flung back the 19th century with a heavy lead diving suit. One might think that in a setting such as KOTOR's, an environmental suit might have some sort of propulsion system, either propellor-driven or some other sort of propulsion engine.

After so much running around in the game from place to place to place, the last thing the player needed was a slow motion sequence.

[Slammy1]

KOTOR suffered in trying to make the game look great. The time it takes to program a scene limited player choices to make it more a story being told rather than a story we were playing a part in. I'm not entirely sure this is the wrong approach given the game's success, but personally I'd have liked to have a less stringent storyline to allow more chances for the character to influence events. I'd have given up a lot of the graphical elements of the first KOTOR for more freedom and some improved mechanics.

 

The problem with allowing too many options in character creation is that you still need to allow for the casual gamer who cannot manipulate (or at least does not want to devote themselves to understanding the mechanics)the various bonuses to make a character that works as good as he/she could) the mechanics. The game needs to encompass both casual and involved play, and unfortunately that typically means to more power oriented player will find the game unchallenging. At the end, Malek didn't have a chance against me even with the limited manipulations in character development allowed. Rather than a scale to increase the creature's HPs, how about making it more puzzle and less combat oriented? You can still allow combat as a potential solution, but give options (as mentioned) for non-combative solutions. This allows people to invest themselves in the game in different ways.

 

Some more involvement in combat mechanics beyond point select click would be good , but perhaps a bit much to learn and may imply a more action vs RP/strategy motif which should be the primary aspect of game design. Strategy beyond "everyone attacks this guy"like... cover for instance. That would add some more strategic elements to combat which would add to my game enjoyment a lot and would not entail people learning how to jump right, force jump forward, etc. It would also add some realism to combat without making the mechanics too complex. Things like scopes for rifles can easily be added to a combat system without having the character manipulate the weapon, say in improving to hit at a distance. Clear kill shots can enter into how situations are handled by stealth or possibly assassination (both would add a strategic level)

 

For example, let's say we have a smuggler (or space pirate). What might trigger some necessary game advances could be money, acquisition, or reputation. It'd be nice to be able to manipulate the mechanical elements of gameplay by, for exaple, building your ship more towards a goal (eg combat for piracy or pure speed for smuggling). Allow the exploration of the universe some, with direction being given in the form of assignments, news, and/or rumors. Not every world needs to be drawn out in excruciating detail, some standard can be established to minimize the data set (a space station is a space station with a few differences). Similarly, it'd be hard to identify individuals of the same species and they would have similar regulations and culture giving similar responses. It may detract some from the glitz, but there's a familiarity your character would have with the organization of the culture the user would lack so familiar elements actually can improve the simulation. It's how I got around having to design a whole bunch of cities in D&D land campaigns while still allowing some adventure detail.

 

Having different companions for different parts of the campaign would overall improve gameplay. You may not be able to develop the characters as well, but you could still have 1 or 2 core companions with several others that come and go their own direction depending on outcome. I really didn't find having to be tortured with the ramplings of the old man or the self pity of catwoman too important to the game, more something I did to advance the quests. In a sense it's much easier to not have to explain why they react or do things in peripheral characters, it's also more true to life. If I want scripted dialogue, I'll read a novel. If I want to script dialogue, I'll write. Somewhere in between is what I hope for from a game.

[Weiser_Cain]

First and formost I want this game to embrace the modding community.

 

You may have heard some of this before.

 

1 Juhani

2 Official modding tools

3 No level cap

4 No or at least less harcoded stuff So that I can do total conversions

5 Better character customization

6 Ability to pick fights with anyone so I can do the only cool thing anakin did and kill a villiage

7 Jumping

8 More arenas on the shadier planets

9 An insane number of side quests

10 Optional limb severage for both the pc npc and enemies

11 Ability to ditch the ebon Hawk for another ship

12 Ingame custom armor and weapons

13 Armor that reflects what upgrades you've applied

14 Destructable enviroments, I want to be able to use my lightsaber to cut my way into most places

15 Speeders and other means of travel in game.

16 New races

17 I'd like it if I could play the game Palpatine style, totaly relying on the force and forsaking the lightsaber

18 All vehicles and droids to be upgradeable and customizable

19 More realistic textures, KOTOR was pretty good mind you but...

20 Better npcs, I want to actually want to spend time in a cantina watching them go about their busines,

[Gorgon]

I would perfer the individual maps to be bigger. A little more non quest material etc. But of course thats impossible since they will inevitably simultaneously develop it for some console or other. Other than that, the atmosphere is important. The alien races would be really if they were playable. More of them .etc.

[kefka]

Well, it's nice to see all these wish lists but I think the feature set has already been finalized.

 

What we say here will likely fall on deaf ears.

 

[mello 1]

Big fan of the first kotor but there were a couple of things that I think would make the sequel even better.

 

1st) Occasionally while playing the first kotor there were times when I was trying to leave or enter a door only to find out that I was unable to because one or both of my teamates were snagged up somewhere. I'd have to backtrack to get my guys unhooked & then go back to the door. Even though my guys are offscreen while I'm running somewhere, they shouldn't be further than 3 steps away.

 

2nd) After finishing the game, I think there should be an option to be able to run faster when I play it again.

 

3rd) I'd like to see some cool jedi-like abilities when my character reaches a certain level. (Examples: deflecting a lazer blast with my hand, tossing stuff that's lying around at your enemies with the force, and absorbing a sith electricity bolt & tossing it back at them ala yoda in episode 2.)

 

4th) I would like more detailed info about weapons, armor, & items. There were some expensive pieces that I bought in the first kotor that I wasn't even sure how much it actually improved my stats. I'd have to enable the item, then go to my stats window, try to remember most of it, disable the item, go back to my stats & try remember what went up or down. I think to improve that for example; say I'm about to purchase some piece of armor, I'd like to see a visual before & after representation of my stats to see what benefits or disadvantages it would have on me if I were to purchase it. (I'm kinda in a Apple state of mind with the nice, clean interface.)

 

5th) I'd like an even more in-depth facial character creation tools. Like Tiger Woods times 2!

 

6th) I also think it would be cool to see more cool light saber animations. Slicing off an appendage or head for example. Also, I think rare cool finishing animations would be sweet if your building your character into an exceptionally evil badass. An example of this would be to finish off an enemy by slicing off the limbs, head & torso in a quick saber movement & then use the force to lob the pieces in opposite directions all while laughing like an evil bastard! I can't stress enough that you should only be able to see a particular finishing move only a few times throughout the game so you really appreciate when you do see it.

 

That's all I can think of at the moment. I really hope some or all of these suggestions are really considered.

 

KOTOR ROCKS!

 

Edit:

Do the guys working on KOTOR2 actually read these forums or are the game's features already locked? According to the EGM article, there is still a year of work before it's ready.

[Weiser_Cain]

Well, it's nice to see all these wish lists but I think the feature set has already been finalized.

 

What we say here will likely fall on deaf ears.

 

I'm accustomed to that, I stiil enjoy the process. Plus I like to see if anyone agrees with my ideas.

 

mello:

If one character gets stuck you just have to turn on solo mode and switch to that character, no need to backtrack. There is a turbo cheat though I never used it(plus I heard it can break the game), you can however use the force to increse your speed(or just quicksave while running, though this too can break the game). It is sad that sport games provide more customization options than role playing games. More animations would be nice though that's overkill for my character, a better option, I think, would be more flexability in how you use you powers and emotes so you could string together your bloody little display. This brings up another Idea I'd have liked more hotkeys so that I wouldn't have to cycle through my force power to choke a guy, also I want to be able to choke a guy even after I learn the higher level force power.

[mello 1]

Well, it's nice to see all these wish lists but I think the feature set has already been finalized.

 

What we say here will likely fall on deaf ears.

 

 

I just remembered a quote from the end of the EGM article.

 

Avellone jokes, they reserve the right to change anything that they showed us. "There's a little asterisk next to everything we've said that says, 'Year away from launch,'" Avellone says.

[Fearless_Jedi]

To reply to "Ronald"

 

I think an enhanced combat system could make KOTOR 2, legendary!

Most people bought the game cause they get to use a lightsaber and cause it is the first (first person)Star Wars RPG. So combat should be a huge part of the game and alot of focus should be made on making it better, and more realistic.

So "kewller animations" should be a huge thing to think about when making KOTOR 2, and most defnintely shouldn't be a trashed idea.

 

Now as for realism, that is just what I like to see, and it makes the game more exciting with it. it probably wont happen. However I do cringe when I see a sith who got smacked in the head with a lightsaber and didn't die from it.

 

Anyway most of my wishes aren't coming true after reading an article about KOTOR2 in a magazine, so I should just hope for the best.

 

But one thing Obsidian shouldn't do is totally ignore Episode II, after watching that people are going to want to do what the Jedi did in that movie so it should be examined thoroughly.

 

Oh, and by the way Ronald, Obsidian has announced that KOTOR 2 will have prestige classes, so some of the stuff I wanted to see will happen.

 

Oh, and mello 1, I like your wish list.

[DrathB0B0]

Well this is pointless, but this is what i want to see.

 

1. NOT HAVING TO BE JEDI CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How about a BG & BG2 style story where any class can do the stroy.

2. Never Winter Nights Style tools, make this the NWN of the Star Wars RPG!

3. How about being able to be a race other than human, this is Star Wars after all with all those wonderful aliens.

[Aurora]

Are we talking realistic here, or crazy wishes?

 

Realistic: I would like NO GODDAMN UNDERWATER QUESTS WITH GODDAMN SLOW MOTION AND GODDAMN GIANT FISH.

 

I would also like NO GODDAMN ONE-HIT-KILL LIGHTSABERS. Sure, if you get hit with a lightsaber, you'll probably die instantly. If you get a sword driven through your heart, you'll probably also die instantly. If you get shot, you'll probably also die pretty quickly. Making all weapons kill in one hit is not the path to kewlness unless we're playing SUPER REALISM WITH VERY LITTLE COMBAT game.

 

I would like a hug.

 

For my part, I think that Juhani's lesbian romance was a good step towards equal rights for gamers of all creeds and sexualities. But it's not enough.

 

The next advancement should be a romance option for furries. I would like to sex0r a wookie.

 

Juhani *was* a furry, dude. CAT-PERSON.

[kefka]

Well, it's nice to see all these wish lists but I think the feature set has already been finalized.

 

What we say here will likely fall on deaf ears.

 

 

[tripleRRR]

I want less obvious dialog options, also one or two more dialog options, instead of

 

yes - LS points

no - DS points

meh - no points

die idoit! - more DS points

 

I would like to see

 

yes

maybe

no

meh

later

die fool!

I like you alot

...

 

You get the idea.

 

 

TripleRRR

[RoGuE JeDi]

Leave the race as human, adding other options is a considerable amount of work that could be directed elsewhere (improving other game aspects, be it quests, world design, etc).

[StillLife]

Leave the race as human, adding other options is a considerable amount of work that could be directed elsewhere (improving other game aspects, be it quests, world design, etc).

All RPG makers should just do away with character customization options completely. I don't want to decide any of that stuff. I want my character to be as generic as possible, or at least make sure I don't have any control over how he turns out. Then we can really have some great interactive movies to pretend like we're playing along with - Final Fantasy style. That would be great. <_<

[Drakron]

Tidus ...

 

[Aegeri]

I'll say this again, I want the force powers to either be like the pen and paper, or make them bloody balanced. Force Wave is simply ridiculous and so is destroy droid. Those two in combination can wipe out entire bases of enemies in a matter of clicks. It makes combat an incredibly boring farce and just a hinderance.

 

Of course, with the 'casual' gamer approach that Knights probably has, then I guess I'll never find any challenge in the game.

 

I guess my main requests then are:

 

Less annoying NPC's, or allow me to kill them. For the love of God, if there is another Carth like NPC in the game I want to bloody kill him straight off. I DO NOT want to be FORCED to listen to his whinging throughout. This also flows onto the fact that I would like to be able to slaughter the often equally as annoying NPC's in game. With only a few exceptions, I felt the NPC's were a chore rather than useful.

 

If I'm forced to be a Jedi at least make blasters useful this time (this flows onto my first request about game challenge). Of course, as the game is a twitch system then this is likely to be impossible. We'll either have useless blasters (because of no 5' step rules and the like), or completely overbalanced blasters (that HAVE to be able to kill in the first round or be utterly useless). We'll have massively overbalanced melee due to the RT system anyway. This will also make non Jedi NPC's possibly useful. *Possibly*.

 

Fix the interface, it was horrific. Extraordinarily cumbersome in many respects, of course it works on a console, but Deus Ex 2 proved that what works on a console doesn't mean it will function overly well on a PC.

 

I'll say this again, because I really want to put some heavy emphasis on this, FIX THE FORCE POWERS. They were plainly ridiculous in the first game.

 

In combination with that, you might as well fix lightsabres as well. Either make them more like the pnp, where they get more useful as you level up, or at least have some form of improvement curve (By items or similar). They are effectively the best weapon since the moment you get them.

 

Speaking of lightsabres, it could probably be done that they don't cut through melee weapons. There isn't much of a point to making everything in the game pointless except for lightsabres. Making them cut straight through things would just make things even more insanely imbalanced.

 

Oh, did I mention that the force powers in the first game were ridiculous?

 

More pacifist/non combat options and less railroading (Hello Manaan!). If I go through the Sith base without firing a SINGLE SHOT, I do not expect to bloody be accused of shooting crap. That is massively poor on the designers part and is something I'd expect someone DMing for their first time to do.

 

A more general point to close is that (as I've hopefully got across here), the game was insanely imbalanced. Force powers were nuts, blasters were useless, light sabres were God (With the Assault Blade being the sole exception, it was fairly nuts too), Jedi classes were infinitely better than anything else, because of the ridiculous force power system (see how one imbalanced thing flows onto another) and the game was extraordinarily limited options wise even compared to Baldurs Gate 2.

 

I loved the first game, don't get me wrong here, I thought it was well done and had some very imaginative quests on occasions. The ridiculous balance however severely let the game down for me, as I found the first part rather difficult (first time round), and then suddenly the game became an absolute breeze. It is insane that a game is *harder* at the first bit and then a complete breeze at the end. This is ALL to do with how insane the Jedi and melee weapons are. Now I have played the Pen and Paper, I know that Jedi are insane characters, I ALSO know that generally you run a Jedi campaign OR a normal classes campaign.

 

If you are making this revolve around Jedi, there is NO NEED to have useless blasters, overpowered melee weapons or similar. These things perfectly balance out against the Jedi force powers (which you will hopefully tone down so they don't start at completely ridiculous and go to army destroying in a few levels) and other abilities (lightsabres!).

 

None of this will probably matter though. I'm expecting KotoR 2 to be fun, but another completely unchallenging game with 90% of the weapons utterly useless. At least blasters can be treated like money once again