"the last" Jedi?

[babydol]

Didn't the Exile get the idea about being the last jedi from Kreia?

 

It really is too long since I played this game. Currently waiting for the TSLRP

 

 

 

I think Kreia spread a bunch of lies around just to make sure the **** hits the fan. For whatever her sick twisted reasons were. Like "this is a test" or what have you. Probably the same way all the baddies suddenly KNEW where the Exile was.

 

[DAWUSS]

I guess it's kinda like Order 66.

[DeathScepter]

I do believe that the Jedi of Kotor 1 Ebon Hawk were hidden by Revan for a future use like Carth for the Republic and Canderous for the Mandalorian. I do believe that Revan suspected that the Sith would go after them to get to him after he disappeared to find the cause of the Mandalorian Wars. So he hide them and I do think He thought them a few techiques to hide from Sith and fight them if they are forced into battle them

[Drake3555]

well gosh swxpert!

i said i might be an idiot...

Which reminds me...

[Swxpert]

huh? iwas just trying to be funny

[walkerguy]

I saw it early(?) I think. Sion vs Kreia

[Swxpert]

where

[walkerguy]

Harbringer

[Swxpert]

yes, that is an important video, it is the first clue that kreia, is hiding something

[babydol]

Nah, I still think Kreia let it be known that the Exile IS the last jedi (which you're obviously not: what about Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira, Visas... Vrook, Zez-Kai, Kavar, and ...shudder....Atris) because she's a BIG-FAT-LIAR, and she wants to put the exile in an impossible situation just to see what you' ll do.

[walkerguy]

If the Exile was the last jedi than she must have been the most powerful jedi ever to reinstate the Jedi Order.

 

Is the Sion/Kreia video normally seen as early as the Harbinger or no?

Edited April 16, 2008 by walkerguy

[Jediphile]

Nah, I still think Kreia let it be known that the Exile IS the last jedi

 

No, it was Atris who let it slip.

 

Is the Sion/Kreia video normally seen as early as the Harbinger or no?

 

I doubt it. At least I've never been able to get it before I reached Citadel Station at Telos.

[Kyrivian]

Is the Sion/Kreia video normally seen as early as the Harbinger or no?

 

I doubt it. At least I've never been able to get it before I reached Citadel Station at Telos.

 

Neither have I. As far as I can tell you can only really delve into Atton/Kreia's past once you hit Telos.

[Darth_Windu]

Nah, I still think Kreia let it be known that the Exile IS the last jedi (which you're obviously not: what about Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira, Visas... Vrook, Zez-Kai, Kavar, and ...shudder....Atris) because she's a BIG-FAT-LIAR, and she wants to put the exile in an impossible situation just to see what you' ll do.

No. No no no no no.

 

The Exile IS the last Jedi, at least when Kreia says it. After all Mira, Atton, Bao-Dur, Brianna, Mical, Visas aren't trained to be Jedi until AFTER that.

 

Secondly the 'Jedi' of Atris, Vrook, Zez-Kai, Kavar, and even Bastilla weren't actually Jedi - they had turned long ago by refusing to help the needy, to protect the innocent, by endlessly contemplating and thinking rather than acting.

 

Essentially the whole point is that the Exile is the last Jedi, or the first of the new, because he followed the path of the true Jedi yet did not fall to the Dark Side like all of the others who followed Revan and Malak.

[Knights&Darths]

It's possible that Bastila, as well as other Jedi, would stage their own death or result as casualties in some ambush or another during the Jedi Purge that followed the Mandalorian Wars. The Exile was the last known Jedi, but Kreia knew others must be in hiding, so she used the Exile to draw them out and killed them. Though even then, she knew that for every Jedi slain another would rise, and that's where the echo thing comes in.

[Jediphile]

It's possible that Bastila, as well as other Jedi, would stage their own death or result as casualties in some ambush or another during the Jedi Purge that followed the Mandalorian Wars. The Exile was the last known Jedi, but Kreia knew others must be in hiding, so she used the Exile to draw them out and killed them. Though even then, she knew that for every Jedi slain another would rise, and that's where the echo thing comes in.

 

No. Kreia did not hunt down the jedi, Sion and Nihilus did. Yes, Kreia knew there were jedi left - she even tells the exile that barely a hundred were left and that most scattered and abandoned the order. Atris, Zez-Kai Ell, Kavar, Vrook and Bastila are all still jedi. So is at least must Vima Sunrider, though we never hear of her. Kreia knows that.

 

But hunting down the jedi was never Kreia's goal. It's never stated that Sion and Nihilus kick her out because it's their's, but I would see that as implied given that one of Kreia's goals is to see her teachings justified and finding acceptance. Only the jedi masters can give her that recognition, and it's only when they refuse to accept the evidence that she turns against them, since that means they betray their own ideals by letting fear of the exile's potential dictate their choices.

 

The exile was never the last jedi. Indeed, the exile may not even be a jedi depending on how you look at the character. That's not to take away from the character's importance, though. Indeed, the exile is a central character in jedi lore and the focal point of the transition from the demise of an old jedi order to the formation of a succeeding one, since the exile trained those jedi who will form the core of the new order.

 

All the stuff about the exile being "the last jedi" is just propaganda spread by Atris to make the Sith (meaning Sion and Nihilus) hunt down the exile and so expose themselves, nothing more.

[babydol]

Yeah, well, if all that is needed to no longer be a Jedi is this:

 

the 'Jedi' of Atris, Vrook, Zez-Kai, Kavar, and even Bastilla weren't actually Jedi - they had turned long ago by refusing to help the needy, to protect the innocent, by endlessly contemplating and thinking rather than acting.

 

...then I guess the Exile isn't much of a Jedi either, what with the whole Hiatus thing.

 

I agree with this:

 

All the stuff about the exile being "the last jedi" is just propaganda spread by Atris to make the Sith (meaning Sion and Nihilus) hunt down the exile and so expose themselves, nothing more.

Edited April 17, 2008 by babydol

[Knights&Darths]

"Narrowly escaping a deadly

Sith ambush, the last known

Jedi clings to life aboard a

battered freighter near the

ravaged world of Peragus..."

 

[Darth_Windu]

But hunting down the jedi was never Kreia's goal

Yes, it was. Kreia even explains everything she did at the end. These were to

 

1. Stop the 'Sith' from destroying the galaxy

2. Reveal the corruption of the 'Jedi'

3. Guide the Exile to the creation of the new True Jedi

 

Remember that Kreia and the Jedi Council never saw eye-to-eye. She wanted their destruction so that the corruption and stagnancy of the 'Jedi' would be purged, and that a new Jedi Order more in line with the 'proper' Jedi ideals would arise to replace the old.

 

then I guess the Exile isn't much of a Jedi either, what with the whole Hiatus thing

Not at all. Remember that the Exile had to shut off the Force to prevent death, or extreme torture due to the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator. It takes time for those sorts of wounds to heal - but they are the wounds of action, of helping, rather than inaction and closed minds.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Darth_Windu

[Jediphile]

"Narrowly escaping a deadly

Sith ambush, the last known

Jedi clings to life aboard a

battered freighter near the

ravaged world of Peragus..."

 

[walkerguy]

I did see the Sion/Kreia video by the time I was aboard the Harbringer. Don't know how I managed enough influence.

[Jediphile]

I did see the Sion/Kreia video by the time I was aboard the Harbringer. Don't know how I managed enough influence.

 

You might have gone straight for all the influence increases you could get with Kreia. I usually don't do that because I prefer to play LS, and Kreia's influence gains often come with DS points attached. I always thought you couldn't get that scene until after you reached Telos. But if you got it that early, then I was probably incorrect about that.

[RangerSG]

I won't quote all of post 45. But I think jediphile hit what Kreia was about perfectly. Kreia never accepts being Sith or Jedi as anything more than a title to allow her to teach. Does she manipulate the Exile? Yes. But I think it's clear, in that moment before the masters, that she is done using them, and makes her case clearly.

 

It also makes sense with the cut content where she attempts to break and then take the "Lost Jedi" of the Exile as her own. It was her anger at the council's impotence that drove her to the Sith, I think. And it's their continued refusal to deal with the truth when the Exile finds them that mandates their death.

[Mellypie]

Of those that the Exile finds though I would say that only Kavar is still a Jedi (well and Bastila). Atris is obviously not a Jedi you can tell that from the first time she opens her mouth, same with Vrook. Their whole attitude is completely un-Jedi like, Atris with her anger Vrook with his arrogance (I mean come on: "Sorry I was held up. But it looks like I've arrived in time to pull you out of your predicament." How freaking arrogant can you get? Not to mention that this statement sounds like something a Sith would say: "I suppose there is something I should show you. It will keep you alive long enough to prove useful." But enough about my DS!Vrook theory.) Even Kreia says there is only one Jedi in the Telos academy and she's not talking about Atris, and Zez-Kai Ell says himself that he is no Jedi. Kavar is the only one that sees to still be a Jedi at heart. So when Kreia says the Exile is the "last of the Jedi" it's not too far of stretch. Besides Kreia may not know about some of the Jedi, like Bastila and any other Jedi, who may have gone into hiding after Katarr. And in any event part of her goal concerning the Jedi was not to kill the Jedi, but expose the corruption of the Council.

[Jediphile]

One maddening thing about the KotOR games is that those jedi who seem to best embody the teachings of the jedi are those who have turned their back on the order. In KotOR it is Jolee. In TSL it seems somewhat true of both Zez-Kai Ell, Kreia and perhaps the Exile. Note how Bastila falls to the dark side exactly because she follows the code, thinking a strict adherence will make her a good little jedi and unable to be tainted by the dark side. Atris has had a similar story in TSL, because it is her refusal to deal with internal struggles that cause her downfall - it's something outside the jedi code and so she cannot deal with it and falls, thus proven Kreia's point. And Vrook... Well, if you look up "arrogant" in the dictionary, there should be a picture of Vrook next to the entry...

 

Kavar is what I would call a more standard jedi in the order. He follows the code but also his convictions. But he's a strategist, not a philosopher. Zez-Kai Ell is, however, and that's why he says he is not a jedi. Because he sees something wrong with the jedi, and as a master, he therefore cannot count himself as a representative of what the jedi should be. It's pretty much the same with Jolee - the order felt there was extenuating circumstances in his case, but he could never forgive himself, and because they did not understand this, the order failed him and he left. Bastila may follow the rules of the jedi code, but Jolee lived the spirit of the code itself, rejecting the more orthodox interpretation. Which of them fared better overall in the final analysis of things? I count Zez-Kai Ell as a jedi in part because he confronts his right to the title - he doesn't take it for granted, and he is open enough to be humble about his own position and question the decisions of the council.