KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 24

[dustin19]

lol ya...thrillville

[Sash]

lol ya...thrillville

 

Hahah exactly, not sure how you anyone here feels about Indiana Jones, and the Mercenaries?

[dustin19]

mercenaries is just ok but i could never get in to indiana jones!! :[

[Sash]

mercenaries is just ok but i could never get in to indiana jones!! :[

 

 

Mmm same here, TFU and Fracture, don't look too bad though.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Sash

[dustin19]

ya im pretty excited about TFU

[Brittany]

I'd like to see a amazing ending in KOTOR 3 since that will most likely be the big finale. Also, a real romance would be awesome. More customization of your character, more planets, more cool lightsaber stuff, more getting to know your companions, more side quests.... Just basically more of everything...

 

 

Yeah I know its a lot, but I'm willing to wait a while for a great *FINISHED* game!

[Sash]

I'd like to see a amazing ending in KOTOR 3 since that will most likely be the big finale. Also, a real romance would be awesome. More customization of your character, more planets, more cool lightsaber stuff, more getting to know your companions, more side quests.... Just basically more of everything...

 

 

Yeah I know its a lot, but I'm willing to wait a while for a great *FINISHED* game!

 

Romance? If you want to see romance, play Beauty and the Beast or something, the hell, this is KoTOR we're talking about, leave romance out of it.

[Sash]

ok well maybe a little romance lol

[Deadly_Nightshade]

There should be multiple, completely open romance options for both sexes, with optional partners of both genders (not that you would have to make use of the opportunity, I know I would not partake of the male-male romance but it should still be there as an option)- yeah, it's time to break down some of the annoying walls of conformity that plague the gaming world.

[Tale]

There should be multiple, completely open romance options for both sexes, with optional partners of both genders (not that you would have to make use of the opportunity, I know I would not partake of the male-male romance but it should still be there as an option)- yeah, it's time to break down some of the annoying walls of conformity that plague the gaming world.

I can't be the only one getting tired of the constant ego pandering romances. It's a bit silly that in every adventure a main character has to come across 3 or 4 people who want to sleep with him. Avoiding gay relationships isn't simply about denying choices, but it's also statistically sound! In my 25... or is it 26, fudge I need to look at a calander, years I've only met one gay guy who wanted to sleep with me! (I think he was drunk, and creepy, but it was my fault for going to that particular bar) It's not that common of an occurance.

 

It's kind of like all those old kiddy cartoons like the Extreme Ghostbusters where there has to be an african american, an asian or hispanic, a woman, and someone in a wheelchair. Only now people are demanding it for their sex fantasies.

 

I demand cross-racial romances! I want a black woman, an asian, a hispanic, and a nice Russian woman (love the accent, rowr). And all at the same time! And a romance with a parapalegic, because it's time to demonstrate the socially acceptable nature of the handicapable! It's time to rebel and break down the walls of conformity!

 

PS: You should watch Torchwood. Davies made it a point for the first season to feature every major character in a same sex encounter. The characters don't draw gender lines in that regard. Especially Jack. He'll sleep with anything, "so long as it's beautiful."

Edited May 1, 2008 by Tale

[qt3.14159]

I can't be the only one getting tired of the constant ego pandering romances. It's a bit silly that in every adventure a main character has to come across 3 or 4 people who want to sleep with him. Avoiding gay relationships isn't simply about denying choices, but it's also statistically sound! In my 25... or is it 26, fudge I need to look at a calander, years I've only met one gay guy who wanted to sleep with me! (I think he was drunk, and creepy, but it was my fault for going to that particular bar) It's not that common of an occurance.

 

It's kind of like all those old kiddy cartoons like the Extreme Ghostbusters where there has to be an african american, an asian or hispanic, a woman, and someone in a wheelchair. Only now people are demanding it for their sex fantasies.

 

I demand cross-racial romances! I want a black woman, an asian, a hispanic, and a nice Russian woman (love the accent, rowr). And all at the same time! And a romance with a parapalegic, because it's time to demonstrate the socially acceptable nature of the handicapable! It's time to rebel and break down the walls of conformity!

 

PS: You should watch Torchwood. Davies made it a point for the first season to feature every major character in a same sex encounter. The characters don't draw gender lines in that regard. Especially Jack. He'll sleep with anything, "so long as it's beautiful."

 

Bravo! Thank you for voicing so well what I was thinking.

 

I do think that having multiple romance options would be nice, but ONLY if by pursuing one you completely lock out the others... for that game, at least... :D

[Blarghagh]

At the risk of possibly offending you (in which case I apologize): When you start arguing statistics for a piece of escapist fantasy you know it's time to think about your priorities.

[Tale]

Bravo! Thank you for voicing so well what I was thinking.

 

I do think that having multiple romance options would be nice, but ONLY if by pursuing one you completely lock out the others... for that game, at least... :D

 

I've got nothing against romances in games. I just think games really need to figure out where they're going. Are they trying to be an epic adventure or a bad dating sim. Games like Persona 3 don't bother me because they're quite explicitly about social connections, not just romantic. You can become friends with tons of people all over the game. Games like KOTOR are awkward because it's like you can only develop a personal relationship with romantic interests and it seems like the only reason you can even do that is because "people like romances (read: sex)."

 

I think priorities need to be established and the systems better designed. Adding characters simply for romance purposes seems kind of silly when the game isn't about romance.

 

At the risk of possibly offending you (in which case I apologize): When you start arguing statistics for a piece of escapist fantasy you know it's time to think about your priorities.

 

If the games were made to be escapist sex fantasy, you might have a point.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Tale

[Jediphile]

I can't be the only one getting tired of the constant ego pandering romances.

 

You're not.

 

I'd like the jedi code to finally mean something, though. The jedi code dictates no relationships, yet we have them in each and every game. And although we could argue that TSL doesn't to some extent, since they never lead to anything and Kreia tells us in the end that we must leave such things behind, it still doesn't make it a choice.

 

I like it if you KotOR3 could give you the option not to seek romance and have that have plot impact. Because so far it hasn't.

 

Every time somebody makes that point, people moan with "oh, but you don't have to pursue the romance options in the KotOR games - it's your choice". Yes, it is, but it's a choice between whether I want to play that part of the game or not, and if I choose not to, my only reward is that there are parts of the game I don't get to see - players who defy the jedi code and choose romance face no detrimental effects as a consequence of that choice, which begs the question of why the code dictates this in the first place. When are we finally going to see why this is in the jedi code? I can see the potential problems for it, but as much as the jedi preaches having no relationships, the plots always, always prove the opposite - in K1 romancing Bastila makes it easier to turn her back to the light side in the end, and in TSL Atris falls to the dark side not because she loves the exile but because she denies those feelings for him. Let's see the other side of that, for crying out loud! Because the jedi are correct that romance can lead to disaster. The Star Wars plots just never support that position...

[qt3.14159]

I've got nothing against romances in games. I just think games really need to figure out where they're going. Are they trying to be an epic adventure or a bad dating sim. Games like Persona 3 don't bother me because they're quite explicitly about social connections, not just romantic. You can become friends with tons of people all over the game. Games like KOTOR are awkward because it's like you can only develop a personal relationship with romantic interests and it seems like the only reason you can even do that is because "people like romances (read: sex)."

 

I think priorities need to be established and the systems better designed. Adding characters simply for romance purposes seems kind of silly when the game isn't about romance.

 

I will agree with you in some ways... but KOTOR is much more trying to be an epic movie in game form where the choices you make impact the outcome somewhat. Epic movies almost always include romance on some level. It may not work out, it might just be flirtation, but it's there. The romance works in the first one because of the redemption theme. It works in the 2nd because the exile is supposed to be weaving these incredibly strong connections with all of her team members and influencing their behaviors. How would that not get a little romantic, even if just one sided.

 

Now, when it comes to the third, if they don't want to include any romance at all, I would mostly be ok with that, as long as they were tying up the story nicely. However, us girls like romance. And quite honestly, if they're going to put the half naked chicks in for the guys, they can at least put in a little romance for us. Especially since we got cheated on the last two.

 

Oh, and I would be ok with that included romance having horrible negative impact on the story line... mostly...

Edited May 1, 2008 by qt3.14159

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I'd like the jedi code to finally mean something, though. The jedi code dictates no relationships, yet we have them in each and every game.

 

Screw the code, it's not like I follow it in the rest of the game. Sure, if you wanted to be a "pure" Jedi you might follow it to some extent, but I almost always play as a Sith or non-affiliated-force-user.

[Tale]

Epic movies almost always include romance on some level.

Yes, but they're ALWAYS better designed. They excercise subtlety and development. And it's never with a bevy of choices. If the movies went anything like the games, then Leia wouldn't have been the only chick on the Millenium Falcon. There would have been two others, including a bimbo and wookiee. They're not the result of perfect matches or which one looks cuter, they're often very poor matches of people who just get close due to exposure to each other and dramatic events. Something people would complain about if implemented.

 

That's the difference between epic adventure and bad dating sim.

"We've been alone on this ship with each other for too long and you're kind of growing on me."

"Well, the alien chick is kind of cute, but she's annoying. The Jedi chick is even cuter, but she gets pissed every time I make a dark side choice. Now, the warrior chick is falling at my feet and drooling over every word I say, so I'll go with that."

Edited May 1, 2008 by Tale

[Brdavs]

I'd like the jedi code to finally mean something, though. The jedi code dictates no relationships, yet we have them in each and every game.

 

Thoe that is perhaps kinda the whole point lol?

 

If you want the Code to mean something go with the choices relating to that. That`s the ultimate roleplay. Moving from just saying its a \"hard path\" to actually having it hard. What`s the big importance of it if it`s the only option heh...

 

 

Ok, the turn down optios for Bastila are kinda lame, but the basic dillema is there. Just because the option to get nooky with her and train all your party into jedi is there that doesnt mean you have to take it. It`s you failing the code not the game makers. Only complaint you could have is the truly silly responses pushing you towards one specific direction... But if you`re serious you`ll let those slide I guess heh

 

Personally I admint I`m weak. All jedi party rules and I just cant resist that damn british accent and twin ponytail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But yea, for K3 I`d like to see a more obi1-quigon mentorship thing going on, be you master or apprentice. Heck, why not both. Start of as padawan, get master killed, be a knight, get a padawan. (I can see the \"E1 rippof threads now, but I think it would be sweet)... So, if you have jedi convertable party members a cap of one padawan may be sensible. Not only it`d tie things more to the PT (since the rebuild order will prolly be the PT one)... + not to mention the increased replayabillity

Edited May 1, 2008 by Brdavs

[Shryke]

i don't know about the whole "having a master" thing

 

sure, maybe it could explain away some of the earlier levels (master teaching you the ways of the force blah blah)

 

but am i the only one that thinks killing them off like most people are suggesting is kinda... lame?

 

i was pondering an idea where you were a padawan, had a master etc. slowly learning the force through some intro sorta missions with said master, then after a while, learning about some big magical motivation to take off to the unknown regions to help/hinder Revan and the Exile (i don't know, maybe the Exile is your uncle's-best friend's-sister's-husband's-former roommate or something)

 

at this point you would still be fairly neutral, and in exploring the unknown regions, sorta guide your own path, following the jedi code or not, as you choose to

 

in the end, fight the inevitable big bad boss and return home to the jedi, and if you're dark sided, try and take them on (maybe fighting your old master as a post boss-fight boss), or if you're light sided, try to fit back in to your old place in the order (maybe being exiled for your actions ala the Exile after the Mandalorian Wars, or the Vault Dweller in Fallout 1)

[Brdavs]

Well killing him is but one of the options... I only mentioned it since you prolly have to "loose" your master if you want to become one heh... killing him would give the element of special circumstances to your situation and would help explain climbing the whole ladder from padawan to master in the measly 20is levels heh... But with that you loose the deeper mentorship thing you could have going on. Tradeoff I guess, 1 big one or 2 slightly more shallow heh... ideally you`d have a mentor in K3 and be the mentor in K4 but that aint gonna happen

 

 

Personally I feel that having one would provide a much needed brake form the "renegade, last of and/or chosen one/insanely special" mold of SW heroes.

I`d kinda like to move up trough the ranks of the order like some xyz grunt and get caught up into galactic events at some pivotal point, Zayne Carric style heh (cant believe I actually said that lol)...

Edited May 1, 2008 by Brdavs

[Jediphile]

Just because the option to get nooky with her and train all your party into jedi is there that doesnt mean you have to take it. It`s you failing the code not the game makers.

 

But tha'ts just the point - I can choose to not take those options, but it means ONLY that there are parts of the game I don't get to see. There is NO other impact, good or bad. Conversely, if I choose to pursue those options, I get NO negative impact or actually positive (as with Bastila in K1), so there is no downside to defying the jedi code, which is a cop-out.

 

Don't get me wrong - the jedi code is stupid in this regard. I don't blame people for choosing against it. But it speaks ill of the jedi council that their code dictates this, when seems to solve nothing, and given how wise the masters are supposed to be, it means that the credibilty of the plot suffers as a result.

 

Presumably the ban on relationships is there to protect the jedi from being swept away by their feelings. As such I understand that, but all the evidence in Star Wars speaks to the contrary. You could mention Anakin, but I never bought that - Anakin always wanted power, and in that regard his love for Padme and need to save her from some uncertain possibly harmful future just became a convenient excuse for him to delude himself into thinking he chose the dark side for some greater good. Jolee's story of his wife is far more to the point in K1, but it's just one he tells in one conversation in the game and not one we experience.

[Wolva]

Wasn't that part of the code installed after KOTOR?

Don't know for sure but I think it was

 

And I like the whole master thing, heck mayby you could lose him because he falls to the dark side after 2/5 missions.

Light side turn away from him and find out what happend.

Dark side join him and later kill him, the whole stronger rules thing. I you kill him you find out what is going on.

the choice you made with your master will affect the game and how people look at you.

Would be nice to have some real difference between early and late darks siders, cause you could still go dark after choosing light with your master. Heck you know what I mean.

[Guest The Architect]

In my 25... or is it 26, fudge I need to look at a calander, years I've only met one gay guy who wanted to sleep with me! (I think he was drunk, and creepy, but it was my fault for going to that particular bar) It's not that common of an occurance.

 

Hey, you came on to me first, jerk.

 

Romances should be an option for the player in K3 because it would be unfair to the people that want romances in it not to include it. But there are two things I would like to see done differently this time:

 

1 - Make the player do all the work. Instead of this ego stroking, your companions are attracted to you crap, they should make it that they aren't at first, because you're just not their type and big ****in' deal you're powerful and could very well have an impact on the galaxies' fate. Instead it depends on your personality type and what personality type appeals to them.

 

2 - I agree with Jediphile's point. If you successfully romance with a companion, then this time it should have unpreventable consequences, because in K1 & K2 they really made the Jedi out to be a bunch of morons and weaklings. How about giving them a good name this time around and making them look good in K3? Not that I'm a Jedi-fanboy or anything, but compared to the try-hard Sith...

 

And I see no reason why same sex relationship attempts can't be in K3, but what they could do is make the PC's companions all straight so there's no chance of success, just because it's something different.

Edited May 2, 2008 by The Architect

[Tale]

I liked one of the ideas around KOTOR II with Atton. It would be interesting in K3, if they had romances, to have the kind of consequences where the interest gets kidnapped, tortured, turned evil, whatnot. Baldur's Gate II supposedly had this, as well, with Bodhi killing someone, but I never got that event.

[DAWUSS]

I can't be the only one getting tired of the constant ego pandering romances.

 

You're not.

 

I'd like the jedi code to finally mean something, though. The jedi code dictates no relationships, yet we have them in each and every game. And although we could argue that TSL doesn't to some extent, since they never lead to anything and Kreia tells us in the end that we must leave such things behind, it still doesn't make it a choice.

 

I like it if you KotOR3 could give you the option not to seek romance and have that have plot impact. Because so far it hasn't.

 

Every time somebody makes that point, people moan with "oh, but you don't have to pursue the romance options in the KotOR games - it's your choice". Yes, it is, but it's a choice between whether I want to play that part of the game or not, and if I choose not to, my only reward is that there are parts of the game I don't get to see - players who defy the jedi code and choose romance face no detrimental effects as a consequence of that choice, which begs the question of why the code dictates this in the first place. When are we finally going to see why this is in the jedi code? I can see the potential problems for it, but as much as the jedi preaches having no relationships, the plots always, always prove the opposite - in K1 romancing Bastila makes it easier to turn her back to the light side in the end, and in TSL Atris falls to the dark side not because she loves the exile but because she denies those feelings for him. Let's see the other side of that, for crying out loud! Because the jedi are correct that romance can lead to disaster. The Star Wars plots just never support that position...

 

 

In other words, you want the romance to be just little more than a gratuitous feature just to satisfy Big Al and the boys? (Free cookie to who gets that reference)

 

I'm one who enjoys a well-written romance. IIRC Romance novels do very well.

 

And yeah, pursuing a romance option allows you to see parts of the game that you otherwise wouldn't see.

 

 

 

What might help would be if the PC and RO weren't Jedi.