Mask of the Betrayer

[Big Bottom]

I've been thinking of starting as a Monk in MotB, once I get it and a working computer, and am looking into the viability of this build in the rather more difficulty-oriented combat of the expansion. In a nutshell, is a pure a monk a possiblity in regards to survival, or should I branch into other classes and how would I go about it.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I am playing as a lvl 19 monk at the moment, and i can tell so far after 3-4 hours of playing, that it is a mixed bag. On one hand, you're really difficult to kill, let alone to take any damage. On the other hand, one can get into situations where you and the enemy swing at each with no hits, and your wizard in your party is out of spells. The only thing left to do is going back and have an 8 hour rest

 

Can't your wizard have a quick nap while you're duking it out?

[Gromnir]

(damn double posts)

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 3, 2007 by Gromnir

[Meshugger]

I've been thinking of starting as a Monk in MotB, once I get it and a working computer, and am looking into the viability of this build in the rather more difficulty-oriented combat of the expansion. In a nutshell, is a pure a monk a possiblity in regards to survival, or should I branch into other classes and how would I go about it.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I am playing as a lvl 19 monk at the moment, and i can tell so far after 3-4 hours of playing, that it is a mixed bag. On one hand, you're really difficult to kill, let alone to take any damage. On the other hand, one can get into situations where you and the enemy swing at each with no hits, and your wizard in your party is out of spells. The only thing left to do is going back and have an 8 hour rest

 

Can't your wizard have a quick nap while you're duking it out?

 

That would be great:

 

- "A great monster of the neverending deep! It dodges all my hits, and i dodge his. What about your spells?"

- "Nope, sorry. All out. But i i'll take nap while you two swing at it. It's not like anything interesting will happen."

- "Okely-dokely"

[Gromnir]

I don't understand why you're all so worried about character builds. You actually sit and calculate which builds would be best at which levels and which feats you should take to maximize your damage! Why not just build whatever you feel like and choose the feats that seem the best at the time the choice pops up? That's what I've been doing and it works pretty well.. except for the fact that I try to dress my character as ugly as possible and that doesn't always bring with it the "best" stats.

 

By the way, AD&D role-players really are roll-players after all.

 

ad&d were bass ackwards and retarded. kits were as bad as prcs and the rulez were a convoluted and counter-intuitive mass o' contradictions. if stoopidity = rp, then ad&d were indeed the system for real rp gamers... 'cause having all important character development choices happen only at level 1 enhanced rp.

 

HA!

 

as for just taking whatever feat or skill peaks your fancy... sure, you can do that, but such intentional wackiness don't result in a better rp experience. sadly d&d, (especially a crpg d&d game in which there is no genuine rp being done anyway,) is a game where the numbers matter. can you play a half-orc paladin/monk if you wish? sure. unfortunately, such a character is probably not gonna be particularly fun to play when you can't hit nothing in combat, and can't make any skills checks.

 

combat and dialogues... both is highly dependent on numbers. wanna play 30 levels o' fighter is fine and dandy. take whatever feats and skills you want and you will still be good in combat... but 'cause of lousy skill selection chances are you won't be getting near as much from dialogues as some o' the people who worry over builds. what if you wanna Role-Play a character that can do more than simply cast spells or swing a sword? better consider the numbers, eh? heck, since the only thing that might be remotely considered rp in a single-player crpg is coming from dialogues, the genuine role-players is probably the ones who is gonna most worry over builds, 'cause w/o some forethought you may miss out on a great number and variety o' dialogues.

 

is not like pnp where Gromnir's lack o' social skills is hardly a handicap. real live fellow players and a human dm means that we get as much out of an rp session as we put into it. sp crpg is not rp. you get put only so much as the developer allows... and 'cause o' balance and rulez issues, what you can potentially get out o' game is based 'pon a cold and hard numbers evaluation.

 

welcome to the world o' sp crpgs.

 

but then again, if willful stoopidity = role-play, then sure enough ad&d were supreme, and choose feats and skills and levels w/o forethought or considerations must result in a more genuine rp experience.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

side note:

 

what Gromnir don't get, as far as character builds is concerned, is the folks who try to find the Perfect Warrior (or mage or whatever) to play through motb. maybe combat is tougher in motb than it were in nwn2, but these games is never gonna be made so as to cause undue frustration. a relative newcomer to d&d is still gonna be able to get through motb combats with his crappy build, so what advantage is there in building the perfect warrior? there is all kinds o' ultimate pvp builds we seen posted... and we just don't get the point of using such stuff in motb. such folks is only cheating selves.

 

...

 

the hilarious part o' the scenario is when mr perfect warrior comes to board and then complains that motb were ssssssooooooo easy. well duh. you makes a build that exploits every d&d loophole so as to render unto utter desolation all enemies who stood in your way.... and then complain that game were too easy.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sand]

I don't believe there is ever a perfect build in DnD. If needed, the DM can just create a bigger elephant to drop on Mr. Perfect. If Mr. Perfect is still twitching, drop an even bigger elephant. The DM is never out of elephants.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Sand

[Gromnir]

huh?

 

if we is talking 'bout motb and other sp crpgs, then the dm is a crpg developer... is no mysterious elephants.

 

if we is talking 'bout pnp (which Gromnir weren't,) then you still runs into the problem where Mr. Perfect monopolizes the action. if rest of party is not Mr. Perfects, they tends to get bored sitting back while dm drops elephants on mr. perfect... but again, this is a complete different issue than the one Gromnir were talking 'bout.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sand]

Well, I usually get the Companion AI done by Tony K in order to make the baseline NWN2 more difficult and challenging. I am sure the MotB version will come shortly after its release.

[Xard]

You lucky bastards who already have the game, in what school of magic is that red wizard chick specialized in?

[MrBrown]

You lucky bastards who already have the game, in what school of magic is that red wizard chick specialized in?

 

Transmutation.

[Xard]

Ahh, good.

 

My wiz is specialized in evocations and having two evocations-specialized wizards would've been stupid

[Gromnir]

Ahh, good.

 

My wiz is specialized in evocations and having two evocations-specialized wizards would've been stupid

 

hmmm

 

for motb don't evokers and transmuters both have conjuration as their opposition school? specialization not requires that you take your extra spell from your specialized school. is a few feats that depend on your school o' specialization, but not many. for all practical purposes, there is very little difference 'tween an evoker and a transmuter.

 

keep in mind that if you is into crafting, by having no caster with conjuration spells there is gonna be some certain items you cannot create. is no big deal... but something to consider.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mkreku]

I don't understand why you're all so worried about character builds. You actually sit and calculate which builds would be best at which levels and which feats you should take to maximize your damage! Why not just build whatever you feel like and choose the feats that seem the best at the time the choice pops up? That's what I've been doing and it works pretty well.. except for the fact that I try to dress my character as ugly as possible and that doesn't always bring with it the "best" stats.

 

By the way, AD&D role-players really are roll-players after all.

 

ad&d were bass ackwards and retarded.

Actually, I thought THIS was called AD&D. I don't even know what the hell I am playing!

 

as for just taking whatever feat or skill peaks your fancy... sure, you can do that, but such intentional wackiness don't result in a better rp experience. sadly d&d, (especially a crpg d&d game in which there is no genuine rp being done anyway,) is a game where the numbers matter. can you play a half-orc paladin/monk if you wish? sure. unfortunately, such a character is probably not gonna be particularly fun to play when you can't hit nothing in combat, and can't make any skills checks.

That's indicative of a broken system. A well-balanced and good character development system doesn't demand that its users learn each and every class from the ground up to be able to enjoy the game. The funny thing is that I remember a lot of folks on this very board were complaining about having to meta-game in Oblivion.. Oh, the irony. It almost hurts.

 

but then again, if willful stoopidity = role-play, then sure enough ad&d were supreme, and choose feats and skills and levels w/o forethought or considerations must result in a more genuine rp experience.

 

HA! Good Fun!

No, but I'm sure sitting for hours before a game calculating which class brings what feats and skills and learning thick nerd books about rules that have no relevance in real life is a much more rewarding experience.

 

As I said: roll-play.

[Blarghagh]

So, I got Mask of the Betrayer (europe ftw) and I installed it. My brother also wanted to play it so he installed it on his computer. Here's the thing; I had NWN2 on 1.6 and installed MotB, and everythings fine.

 

He on the other hand, had to install NWN2 first, and updated it to 1.10, THEN he installed MotB, and now all the MotB content that has text associated with it doesn't show up. For example, he can pick the Favoured Soul class, but it's nameless and doesn't have any information. New spells don't have names or descriptions either.

 

Now, he's tried installing NWN2 and going straight to installing MotB, but he still wants to play the OC, and he can't because MotB doesn't fix OC bugs, and he keeps getting the showstopper bug where Deaghun doesn't recognize the fact that you've picked up the shard from the ruins in the Mere.

 

Any thoughts? We were thinking that if he patched to 1.6, then installed MotB, it'd be fine too, but the patcher automatically updates to 1.10 and we haven't a clue how to update manually.

 

Hopefully this will be the last of our MotB problems, since I've had a few myself.

[Gromnir]

"Actually, I thought THIS was called AD&D. I don't even know what the hell I am playing!"

 

really? well then, you has actually learned something new today. golly.

 

"That's indicative of a broken system."

 

very possibly, but that not change the fact that it is what it is. you wanna screw your eyes shut and pretend that any choice is worthwhile or even viable? be our guest. regardless, your delusions and protests not change fact that whimsical picking of feats, skills and classes is not a good way to approach motb character creation. why does people spend some time on builds? 'cause your whimsy approach is stoopid given the realities o' the system and fact that this is a CRPG. dm can't tailor the game to your choices.

 

"No, but I'm sure sitting for hours before a game calculating which class brings what feats and skills and learning thick nerd books about rules that have no relevance in real life is a much more rewarding experience."

 

a pnp ROLE-play character will offer potentially hundereds of hours o' gameplay. a weekly session o' rp once a week or even once a month... a character can last a good long time. but six months ago you spent 15 minutes rolling some lame numbers and got stuck playing a generic ad&d vanilla fighter... and for as long as that character survives the only thing you can possibly do to change character is to change his equipment. wow. talk about a deep role-play experience.

 

"As I said: roll-play."

 

yeah, 15 minutes o' rolling determines... everything. fantastic. Gromnir will takes 3e and its many faults compared to the ludicrous scenario offered by ad&d. roll stats and choose kit.

 

*shrug*

 

is there too much crap in d&d nowadays? sure. is axiomatic that the more options you add to a rule system, the more difficult it is to balance the system. there is too much crap. nevertheless, ad&d is hardly an attractive alternative for various practical and mechanical reasons AND given a choice 'tween too many choices and a handful o' worthless choices we thinks that most would choose the plethora o' options. and the bit 'bout it taking hours of reading and calculating to come up with a d&d character is so much hyperbole. takes minutes to come up with a viable character. for those that wanna optimize it can take hours, but to jump in and play takes no more than it did with ad&d.

 

regardless, your initial point were silly and myopic... ignores reality of crpgs and system in question.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 3, 2007 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

"He on the other hand, had to install NWN2 first, and updated it to 1.10, THEN he installed MotB, and now all the MotB content that has text associated with it doesn't show up. For example, he can pick the Favoured Soul class, but it's nameless and doesn't have any information. New spells don't have names or descriptions either."

 

Gromnir not have game, but there is repeated references to a hotfix(?) available at the bioboards that addresses missing text.

 

...

 

found it.

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...8&forum=121

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Blarghagh]

Ah! Thanks very much, monsieur Il-Khan,

[mkreku]

a pnp ROLE-play character will offer potentially hundereds of hours o' gameplay. a weekly session o' rp once a week or even once a month... a character can last a good long time. but six months ago you spent 15 minutes rolling some lame numbers and got stuck playing a generic ad&d vanilla fighter... and for as long as that character survives the only thing you can possibly do to change character is to change his equipment. wow. talk about a deep role-play experience.

This is pretty funny. Not only do you think I prefer AD&D before this system used in MotB (that I still don't know the name of), based on God knows what grounds, but you write the above too..

 

What you don't seem to realize is that I don't like the rules used in NWN2 at all. I wish there were no rules! At least not visible to my eye. I'm not interested in dice rolls. I'm not interested in BAB or BAOB and all those weird abbreviations you guys use constantly. I'm not interested in combining classes in weird ways, or getting a +5 sword (what does that mean anyhow?!), or hitrolls and damrolls and damage per second and what feat leads to another! Just let me play the game and enjoy the story and develop my character as I see fit when I get the chance.

 

It's like you guys play these games because of the D&D rules. I play them despite these rigid and stilted D&D rules.

 

To each their own, I guess, but don't for a second think that you're having a "deeper" role-playing experience than I just because you're interested in the numbers behind the game. What I call role-play, you call "stoopid". What you call role-play I call roll-play.

[Gromnir]

"What you don't seem to realize is that I don't like the rules used in NWN2 at all."

 

huh? why you assume that? we know that you don't like any game that don't let you use real modern weapons... even if those weapons is complete unreal in the crpg in question. *shrug* you gots your weird biases.

 

regardless, your earlier criticisms 'bout people spending effort on builds were clearly misdirected and voiced from a position o' ignorance. whimsy choices not work so well... not so good for posting responses neither.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mkreku]

we know that you don't like any game that don't let you use real modern weapons... even if those weapons is complete unreal in the crpg in question. *shrug* you gots your weird biases.

My favourite game series is called Gothic. What does that tell you about what you "know"?

 

regardless, your earlier criticisms 'bout people spending effort on builds were clearly misdirected and voiced from a position o' ignorance. whimsy choices not work so well... not so good for posting responses neither.

No, you're right, metagaming has never been any of my strengths. And of course it's coming from a position of ignorance compared to you who study these rules fanatically! In my book that's a good thing! Does that tell you anything about how well your attempt at trolling works..? And I guess I'm just not cool enough to be posting my responses in orc language either, so..

 

Live long and prosper!! (or whatever phrase suits you best)

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

 

you like gothic? great! makes your previous criticisms of fantasy and lack o' realism all that much more wacky.

 

as for the second part o' your response...

 

huh? understand the rules is metagaming now? wow. am supposing that the only way NOT to be metagaming in mk's book is to somehow suffer selective amnesia. is there some way you can makes Gromnir forget that fighters has better bab progression than wizards? then maybe we can be a REAL role-player.

 

HA!

 

oh well. you went off the deep end a good while ago in this thread... if you can't create a character through whimsy then mechanics is busted and you is metagaming to boot... and real role-players only choose through whimsy.

 

anybody gots a link to that screenie of josh's sorcerer/fighter/ek/neverwinter nine character? bet it makes mk blood boil to see such metagamy stuff being advocated by developers.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mkreku]

you like gothic? great! makes your previous criticisms of fantasy and lack o' realism all that much more wacky.

For someone accusing people of so much random stuff, you provide precious little to back it up. Since you were very clearly wrong in the first place (which most everyone who ever read a post of mine knows since I mention Gothic on average three times in every post..), how much truth do you think this claim holds? This time I want you to back it up somehow or I'm going to call you out as the liar you are. Ball's in your court.

 

huh? understand the rules is metagaming now? wow. am supposing that the only way NOT to be metagaming in mk's book is to somehow suffer selective amnesia. is there some way you can makes Gromnir forget that fighters has better bab progression than wizards? then maybe we can be a REAL role-player.

Glad to help!

 

"In role-playing games, a player is metagaming when they use knowledge that is not available to their character in order to give them an advantage within the game, such as knowledge of the mathematical nature of character statistics."

 

Source: http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Metagaming

 

Seems I'm not the only one who learned something today! Besides, don't be so modest! I think we all know that your apprehension about the nerd rules goes a little beyond comparing fighters to wizards.. Heck, you're so damaged from all your PnP nights you can't even stop pretending you're an orc in real life. You know, like as when you write a post on a board?

 

Now please tell me how having thorough understanding of the rules and planning your character beforehand is not metagaming? I'm interested in hearing your interpretation of the term. Really.

 

oh well. you went off the deep end a good while ago in this thread... if you can't create a character through whimsy then mechanics is busted and you is metagaming to boot... and real role-players only choose through whimsy.

Sorry to burst your little bubble yet again, but no matter how many times you write that someone "went off the deep end" or using the phrase "whimsy" (is that another nerd term I don't get?) doesn't make it true. Let the thread speak for itself, I am sure anyone reading this can determine who's off the "deep end" if they want to. It's almost as lame as starting a post with a chuckle to try to insinuate how much above this discussion you are.. Does. Not. Work.

 

anybody gots a link to that screenie of josh's sorcerer/fighter/ek/neverwinter nine character? bet it makes mk blood boil to see such metagamy stuff being advocated by developers.

Like I said earlier in the thread, to each their own. Why would it bother me that a developer (ie. another human being, no need to brown-nose it, Grommie-boy) is metagaming? It doesn't. Yet again you fail to understand me. It's beginning to become the red thread of this pointless discussion.

 

Ps. Sorry to call you out on your metagaming abilities. If I had known it was such a sore toe I would have stepped on another one.

[Pop]

Uh, you've been here longer than I have, and I know not to so vigorously take to flame bait like that. Especially from Gromnir.

 

Was something not said earlier about increasing the peace?

Edited October 4, 2007 by Pop

[Gromnir]

wow. call us a liar? gosh. tell you what. go back and look at your comments 'bout stalker. heck, even eldar joined in and agreed that your realism pov were irrational.

 

"Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

 

"I would love a game where everything is based on reality, like Wasteland was. There's a certain charm to actually recognising the weapons you're using instead of just getting that next longsword +3. Bring me kevlar vests, AK-47's and RPG's and I'm happy!"

 

etc.

 

went downhill from there as you dug a hole trying to explains how stalker game were more real.

 

HA!

 

and we gotta love it when people use wiki based sources... tends to end up looking foolish. need an illustration to enlighten your misconceptions?

 

prerequisite for the sacred fist prestige class:

 

bab +4

knowledge (religion) +8

feats: combat casting, combat reflexes, improved unarmed strike, stunning fist

ability to cast 1st level divine spells

 

so, what is the acceptable level o' knowledge o' the rules such that a player who wishes to play a sacred fist can use w/o it being metagaming in mk's estimation? if a basic working knowledge of da rulez is metagaming in your book, then we suggest that you throw away the book. to simply understand the prerequisites o' the class a person ahs to have pretty comprehensive knowledge o' the rules. gott know skills and bab, and when monks get stunning fist and you gotta have some notions 'bout multiclassing, etc. to simple choose to play a stunning fist is metagamy? riiiiiigggghhhhhtt.

 

and yeah... the deep end is exactly where you went. you has tried to pull the thread off on some tangent, but your original complaint were 'bout folks wasteful spending efforts on builds for motb rather than simply choosing through whim. when that nutty tactic not hold up you made some general criticisms o' d&d... as if such criticisms were having any real tendency to bolster your original point... 'cause again, even if d&d is as busted as you seem to suggest, then there is all the more reason for folks to try and limit the damage resulting from a bad system.

 

...

 

am happy to continue this if you wish.

 

as for the notion that we is brown nosing... well, no doubt josh finds that as amusing as does Gromnir.... but if it makes you feel better to somehow simply dismiss our observation, then more power to you. nevertheless, josh is a developer o' crpgs. gots more experience with crpgs than does Gromnir, and we suspect he gots more than mk. heck, we can pretty much guarantee that josh got more experience if mk not even know differences 'tween and twixt ad&d and current d&d given that the d&d brand is the most popular such game 'round. kinda likes a person claiming to be an english lit expert w/o any useful knowledge Shakespeare. in any event, josh is one o' those terrible metagamers that obviously spent some efforts on a character build. no doubt that means that he is simply a roll player, right?

 

keep digging yourself in deeper.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gromnir

[mkreku]

wow. call us a liar? gosh. tell you what. go back and look at your comments 'bout stalker. heck, even eldar joined in and agreed that your realism pov were irrational.

 

"Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

 

"I would love a game where everything is based on reality, like Wasteland was. There's a certain charm to actually recognising the weapons you're using instead of just getting that next longsword +3. Bring me kevlar vests, AK-47's and RPG's and I'm happy!"

Thanks for proving my point! Now let's recap what you wrote earlier:

 

we know that you don't like any game that don't let you use real modern weapons...

The quote you provided was about one particular game, a game set in an alternate reality that's based on real life events, locations and equipment. Gee, great example there, Grommie-boy. Quite like shooting yourself in the foot, huh? Sure, I'd like that to be even more realistic and totally without para-normal events. I'm quite fed up with the majority of RPG's being fantasy, true. Does that mean I want every game to be ultra-realistic? Nope. Do I even want STALKER to be like that? Nope. Did I ever claim I wanted that? Nope. So where did you get that from? You came up with it yourself and tried to tack it on me. That's what I refer to as a liar, liar. You talk about me digging a hole? Well, try to crawl up from that one then.

 

and we gotta love it when people use wiki based sources... tends to end up looking foolish. need an illustration to enlighten your misconceptions?

You mean looking more foolish than someone claiming lots of rubbish without backing anything up? Naah, don't think so, liar.

 

And then you go on some tirade trying to prove you're not meta-gaming by quoting lots and lots of info from some obscure nerd rule book. Fantastic. Your rhetorical skills are almost as impressive as your ability to use proper English in your posts! But please, feel free to explain what you think is meta-gaming then. I've posted my opinion (even though it's "only" a Wikipedia-based source.. sigh), whereas you have yet failed to produce one.

 

as for the notion that we is brown nosing...

Trying to make me tremble in awe by the mere mention that a developer does stuff that I don't approve of is brown-nosing of the highest order. Try to realize that even though they work as game developers, they're still only human. That don't impress on me much, as a wise woman once sang.

 

HA! Good Fun!

You're right, this is like therapy!