Uniting North America

[Walsingham]

if we had a global threat, such as some alien civilization (led by lurrr, ruler of omicron persei 8 ) attempting to overtake the world, then yes, it would make sense.

 

taks

 

Like Russia? Only at her best when fighting the invaders?

[taks]

i was thinking more along the lines of some monsterish extra-solar civilization...

 

taks

[Guard Dog]

if we had a global threat, such as some alien civilization (led by lurrr, ruler of omicron persei 8 ) attempting to overtake the world, then yes, it would make sense.

 

taks

 

There are some nations that would immediately surrender to the aliens then begin collaborating with and aiding them in their war against the rest of the world. Not mentioning any names here.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2007 by Guard Dog

[Dark_Raven]

if we had a global threat, such as some alien civilization (led by lurrr, ruler of omicron persei 8 ) attempting to overtake the world, then yes, it would make sense.

 

taks

 

There are some nations that would immediately surrender to the aliens then begin collaborating with and aiding them in their war against the rest of the world. Not mentioning any names here.

 

 

Fra... nevermind.

[Azarkon]

As for Mexico we should really just imprison all their government officials and revamp their system (government, education, health care, etc) with people who aren't scum bags. Start with the top then work towards the bottom until they are a civilized country which is worthy to be apart of a union. We also need to get Japan to take over China since Japan is awesome.

 

Yea Japan is so awesome its PM tries to cover up past atrocities by pretending they never happened: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1595375,00.html

 

Sound like someone we in the US have dealt with? *ahem* Ahmadinejad *ahem*

 

*shakes head and wonders when people will stop associating the geek culture in Japan with the nation in general*

 

Anyways, besides the obvious problem with this topic (if people could be united simply by a few individuals willing it national borders would've long ceased to exist by now), one issue you have with uniting any number of countries into a greater entity for the sake of becoming more powerful is the not-so-ironic fact that the bigger you become the weaker each constituent actually is. If the US were to unite with Mexico, we'd have to give at least 1/3rd of the votes TO Mexico. The same is probably true for Canada. That means the average American politician, citizien, decision-maker, et. all becomes less influential as he has to deal with the desires of Mexicans and Canadians in addition to his own. The loss of such decision-making power means that all that extra clout you gain by virtue of being bigger is in turn lost by vice of internal divisions. It'd work temporarily in response to a great threat, but over time all empires - especially the big ones - disintegrate simply because people fail to see why they should listen to each other.

 

And of course, the geopolitical solution to a united NA, on the part of our rival nations, is a united Asia, a new Soviet Union, a enlarged EU, a coalition of Muslim countries, and what-have-you. No one wants to return to a world divided between mega-powers where the sovereign rights of smaller states are automatically compromised vis-a-vis their size, yet that's exactly what will happen if people feel threatened by the rise of a new pan-American bloc. You band together, others band together to counter you. You think Russia and China are polite to each other now, watch how close they become if a pan-American bloc emerges to challenge their mastery of Asia (as for your beloved Japan, I fear it shall become only a satellite state of the pan-Asian empire it once dreamed of leading).

Edited March 6, 2007 by Azarkon

[Guard Dog]

As for Mexico we should really just imprison all their government officials and revamp their system (government, education, health care, etc) with people who aren't scum bags. Start with the top then work towards the bottom until they are a civilized country which is worthy to be apart of a union. We also need to get Japan to take over China since Japan is awesome.

 

Yea Japan is so awesome its PM tries to cover up past atrocities by pretending they never happened: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1595375,00.html

 

Sound like someone we in the US have dealt with? *ahem* Ahmadinejad *ahem*

 

*shakes head and wonders when people will stop associating the geek culture in Japan with the nation in general*

 

Anyways, besides the obvious problem with this topic (if people could be united simply by a few individuals willing it national borders would've long ceased to exist by now), one issue you have with uniting any number of countries into a greater entity for the sake of becoming more powerful is the not-so-ironic fact that the bigger you become the weaker each constituent actually is. If the US were to unite with Mexico, we'd have to give at least 1/3rd of the votes TO Mexico. The same is probably true for Canada. That means the average American politician, citizien, decision-maker, et. all becomes less influential as he has to deal with the desires of Mexicans and Canadians in addition to his own. The loss of such decision-making power means that all that extra clout you gain by virtue of being bigger is in turn lost by vice of internal divisions. It'd work temporarily in response to a great threat, but over time all empires - especially the big ones - disintegrate simply because people fail to see why they should listen to each other.

 

And of course, the geopolitical solution to a united NA, on the part of our rival nations, is a united Asia, a new Soviet Union, a enlarged EU, a coalition of Muslim countries, and what-have-you. No one wants to return to a world divided between mega-powers where the sovereign rights of smaller states are automatically compromised vis-a-vis their size, yet that's exactly what will happen if people feel threatened by the rise of a new pan-American bloc. You band together, others band together to counter you. You think Russia and China are polite to each other now, watch how close they become if a pan-American bloc emerges to challenge their mastery of Asia (as for your beloved Japan, I fear it shall become only a satellite state of the pan-Asian empire it once dreamed of leading).

 

Your points are well taken. But not to pick salt out of snoflakes here, an alliance between Russia and China will never, ever happen. That emnity is too great.

[Azarkon]

I dunno. It sure happened back in the 50's when Communism was all the rush. Course Mao and Stalin eventually stuck their noses at each other and the alliance collapsed, but that's the way alliances are when established for the sake of countering foreign superpowers (ie the US). Actually, if you take a look at recent news the two countries are getting back together again - at least on the surface. No doubt the Russians secretly fear the Chinese because they're a declining people (numerically) holding a heck of alot of Lebensraum that the Chinese would love to immigrate into, but for the sake of appearing strong against the US's incursions into their former satellite states, a few joint military exercises certainly doesn't hurt.

 

So yeah, a permanent alliance between the two countries isn't likely as it's not to their mutual geopoligical interests. However, in response to a pan-American bloc threatening to dominate the world, I'd be surprised if the Russians and the Chinese didn't run into each other's arms.

[Deraldin]

if we had a global threat, such as some alien civilization (led by lurrr, ruler of omicron persei 8 ) attempting to overtake the world, then yes, it would make sense.

 

taks

 

There are some nations that would immediately surrender to the aliens then begin collaborating with and aiding them in their war against the rest of the world. Not mentioning any names here.

 

 

Fra... nevermind.

 

Quick! Someone call X-com!

[Fenghuang]

if we had a global threat, such as some alien civilization (led by lurrr, ruler of omicron persei 8 ) attempting to overtake the world, then yes, it would make sense.

 

taks

 

 

Buggers?

[taks]

Fra... nevermind.

cheese eatin' and surrender monkeys ring a bell? ;0

 

taks

[taks]

doesn't anybody but me watch futurama?

 

taks

[Fenghuang]

I got the joke, but OSC presented a IMO plausible transition from warring nations to one world government.

[Weiser_Cain]

And worldwide revolt.

[steelfiredragon]

im torn on it 50/50.

 

can see its goodpoints, can foresee some bad things to it.

 

what are we going to call ourselves at that point? the american empire? like on ghost in the shell??

 

 

well i say that it may not help much but it would make drug trafficing a bit harder since the meixco/usa border will be gone drug runners will have to find a new way to escape lapd when they bust them for it, cuase running to mexico aint gonna help you bad boys no longer,

 

 

as for combining the world, IF it is done like startrek fine, anyother way it is a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

 

so this is SFD citizen of the american empire signing off

[Weiser_Cain]

Drug trafficking would be much easier as there's no restriction on movement within the united states. I can't tell you how many times I've gone from Chicago to Florida or California without seeing cop one, so unless you drove like a moron it'd be simple as pie to transport drugs.

[Walsingham]

Drug trafficking would be much easier as there's no restriction on movement within the united states. I can't tell you how many times I've gone from Chicago to Florida or California without seeing cop one, so unless you drove like a moron it'd be simple as pie to transport drugs.

 

That's because they were behind you, like in that film.

[taks]

I got the joke, but OSC presented a IMO plausible transition from warring nations to one world government.

tis true.

 

unfortunately, the system employed in star trek can be best described as a utopian socialism (within the federation of planets). it can work only in theory. too bad.

 

taks

[taks]

Drug trafficking would be much easier as there's no restriction on movement within the united states. I can't tell you how many times I've gone from Chicago to Florida or California without seeing cop one, so unless you drove like a moron it'd be simple as pie to transport drugs.

in missouri, on interstate 44, they put up a sign just west of fort leonard wood (waynesville, between rolla and springfield) that says "drug checkpoint ahead" on the eastbound lane. the highway patrol regularly catches folks that get off at the next exit. as it turns out, there is no drug checkpoint, and the next exit is where the cops actually sit. the reason they can bust you? because the exit itself is essentially a dead end, with no reason for anybody to get off unless they live there, or they're trying to turn around to avoid the checkpoint. it's rather funny, actually.

 

taks

[Walsingham]

Drug trafficking would be much easier as there's no restriction on movement within the united states. I can't tell you how many times I've gone from Chicago to Florida or California without seeing cop one, so unless you drove like a moron it'd be simple as pie to transport drugs.

in missouri, on interstate 44, they put up a sign just west of fort leonard wood (waynesville, between rolla and springfield) that says "drug checkpoint ahead" on the eastbound lane. the highway patrol regularly catches folks that get off at the next exit. as it turns out, there is no drug checkpoint, and the next exit is where the cops actually sit. the reason they can bust you? because the exit itself is essentially a dead end, with no reason for anybody to get off unless they live there, or they're trying to turn around to avoid the checkpoint. it's rather funny, actually.

 

taks

 

Genius.

[Azarkon]

Earth shall be united the moment we colonize Mars.

[Dark_Raven]

I got the joke, but OSC presented a IMO plausible transition from warring nations to one world government.

tis true.

 

unfortunately, the system employed in star trek can be best described as a utopian socialism (within the federation of planets). it can work only in theory. too bad.

 

taks

It would take the near destruction of the human race as a wake up call. Plus the elimination of material wealth and the need to worship idols.

[taks]

Genius.

yeah, i guess someone realized that you should never underestimate the stupidity of the average drug runner.

 

taks

[Calax]

Earth shall be united the moment we colonize Mars.

actually this has some merit, the moment we can find some other group of people who are not part of our earthy society to hate is the moment we will unite to fight the suckers tooth and nail for anything they have. Otherwise it's a pipe dream.

[Cantousent]

Earth shall be united the moment we colonize Mars.

actually this has some merit, the moment we can find some other group of people who are not part of our earthy society to hate is the moment we will unite to fight the suckers tooth and nail for anything they have. Otherwise it's a pipe dream.

 

No. In truth, some of us would still conive against the rest.

[Xard]

Call me idealistic, but I believe humankind can go far from violence of this era. Biological evolution has been slow, but cultural evolution has been very, very fast. Just look how far we've gotten in 15 000 years.

 

I'm not saying there will be time with no violence, but I believe we might be able to leave wars and such in bloody tides of history some day... However, I have no idea how many thousands of years that's going to take, but its possible.

 

Viva la Utopia