50 reasons why.. part two

[Volourn]

If we covered this before there's no need to cover it again so why are you spamming? :crazy:

[Gromnir]

If we covered this before there's no need to cover it again so why are you spamming? :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if the controls are same, then lokey has a point. we not looked... 'cause we not care, but if controls is same then we not see how this can be an issue for you, save that you typically defies reason so we should not be surprised.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Except it's not the same. And, you'd know that if you actaully knew what you were talking about which you don't and admitted to. R00fles! :crazy:

[Maria Caliban]

Oh, you made it sound like the UD was silly. I don't think it is. It may not be 'real world like'; but I thinmk it's logical in the game world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, it is silly.

 

Just like four tiny people saving the world by tossing a ring into a volcano is silly, or four children helping a talking lion save a world from eternal winter is silly, or even the idea of enormous, centuries old flying lizards that spit fire and horde gold.

 

You need a high suspension of disbelief to enjoy D&D. The question is how far you're willing to take that suspension. I'm not saying that my stance is the right one but underground mountains don

Edited November 25, 2006 by Maria Caliban

[Volourn]

Nah. I don't think it's silly. Just ebcause it doesn't fit into the concept of the 'real world' doesn't make it silly. It's a fictional world. It shouldn't work exactly like ours. Is Mars exactly like Earth? No. Nor should it. Yet, it's a real world.

 

On top of that, underground can support life in the real world. Various cave systems discovered have various forms of life in them. *shrug*

Edited November 25, 2006 by Volourn

[Maria Caliban]

Perhaps it's just our definition of silly that's the issue.

 

There are times when I mentally step back while hacking through my hundredth goblin as dark elf wizards toss spells at me in the middle of a brightly lit cavern during my journey to gather the parts of the holy waffle necessary to fight the evil King of Syrup and think to myself, "This is absurd."

[Riftworm]

And that's why we're talking about it.

 

Most of them are poinitng to 6 or 7 spells that look lame. I happened to agree that those same spells look lame. The IGMS, Implosion, Mage Armor, Protection from Evil,  Weird and Wail look terrible compared to NWN1. Mage Armor and Protection in NWN1 didn't even have vfx, (MA had one when casting but no lasting vfx which was fine, PFE/G had glowing orbs coming off of you barely noticeable) but when looking at NWN2's version of those i'd rather have no vfx for those spells. The rest they mentioned just look rushed.

 

Wail of the Banshee used to be it's own little #D animation and looked and sounded sick, now it's nothing at all. The animations iin this game are so...basic and uncinematic. It's all goes to lower tha bar for games. Bioware amde these thigns cinematic that way, it looked polished and pro. Obsidian can;t even get PC animations right let alone many spells that got rushed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And in that thread, it seems like a large chunk of the people state that despite the few flaws (such as Wail of the Banshee), on the whole, they prefer NWN2's spell animations over NWN1's. It wasn't really the best source you could find for how damning the spell animations were.

 

 

 

As an aside, am I the only person that can look at the icons next to my portraits and tell what buffs and penalties I have on? I'm not really sure how this is much different than the huge row of markers that went across the top of the screen in NWN1, with the exception of the fact that it is now easy to see what buffs my NPCs also happen to have on.

 

 

Maria: Thanks, that's what I thought. It's just I have done a lot of work with AI in the past, so when I think of pathfinding, I typically think of the algorithms that go into pathfinding, rather than the creation of the walkmesh that is utilized for the pathfinding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's not true. Anyone can see that they all agree that 6-7 spells look bad. Why would you say they seem to think that when there is no indication of this.

 

And whoever said underground mountains were ridiculous forgot the LOTR MODS. The 9 Layers, Dragon Moons, and a host of other custom mods, not to mention it's used quite a bit in Biowares campaigns. As I pointed out, not only does it give a boss a more promienent and imposing feel, but the option to strategicly place raised terrain should be there. Hell, even for aesthetic reasons it should be there on principle alone.

[17243_1556103691]

This quote taken from Bioware forums sums up my feelings on spells

 

 

Posted 11/25/06 20:59 (GMT) by SPK WidoWMakeR

Put someone fully buffed with spells from NWN1 next to someone fully buffed from spells in NWN2 and look at who looks way cooler. NWN1's character just looks way cooler.

NWN2 wins out on many things graphically, but buffing spells aren't one of them.

 

 

It's true. Take a comparison pic and run a poll.

[Hurlshort]

Actually, I've yet to see many comparison pics between NWN1 and NWN2. My guess is because NWN1 looks ugly in comparison, but hey, I'm not making these insane lists.

[Diamond]

I'd like to see the definition of "way cooler". Besides, many people were complaining on old NWN2 boards that buffed NWN1 characters look like Christmas tree and asking to tone it down a bit. So they've got what they asked for.

 

Actually, I've yet to see many comparison pics between NWN1 and NWN2.  My guess is because NWN1 looks ugly in comparison, but hey, I'm not making these insane lists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, you haven't yet seen the "101 things wrong with NWN2" list on Bioboards. That is insane. It is funny how people who hate the game waste so much time on such silly exercises.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Diamond

[Riftworm]

Actually, I've yet to see many comparison pics between NWN1 and NWN2.  My guess is because NWN1 looks ugly in comparison, but hey, I'm not making these insane lists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, you haven't yet seen the "101 things wrong with NWN2" list on Bioboards. That is insane. It is funny how people who hate the game waste so much time on such silly exercises.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not everyone shares your opinion. It's not insane, it's just different - get used to it.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Riftworm

[17243_1556103691]

I'd like to see the definition of "way cooler". Besides, many people were complaining on old NWN2 boards that buffed NWN1 characters look like Christmas tree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Many people huh? Where are these so called many people? In reality NWN2 fully buffed looks like a x-mas tree, while in NWN1 you looked like a person buffed with spells.

[Diamond]

Not everyone shares your opinion.

I know. You don't share mine, I don't share yours. Simple.

It's not insane, it's just different  - get used to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is fine to bring up constructive points, but buffing up a list up to a "cool" number is trolling.

 

 

[quote name='

Edited November 25, 2006 by Diamond

[Cantousent]

In all honesty, I don't think rift is trolling. He is, however, ranting. That's fine. Some of you might have noticed me rant a time or two. Fair enough.

 

However, I've glossed over most of rift's posts. I haven't ignored everything, but I have tended to ascertain, at each point, whether there was some basis to make for a larger discussion. Most of his posts are merely diatribe. The underlying intention isn't really aimed at discussion rather than simple bashing.

 

Nonetheless, some of his points do bear further discussion, even if the water is a muddied by his presentation.

 

For example, there is a point to the argument concerning underground elevation. I can see where modders might like to have some elevation underground. Even so, the NWN tilesets were horrible. I didn't mind them at first, but I hated them by the end of my second game. I didn't even like them much the first time around. If we could have something as easy to implement as the NWN underground elevation, but without the ramp up/down effect of the tilesets, there could be a significant advantage to the consumer.

[Riftworm]

I feel they looked more impressive "fully buffed" in NWN1 as well. But I do agree with these people http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...&forum=109&sp=0 some offensive spells in NWN2 need to be changed as well. Paticularly IGMS as they point out, they just look worse now, less complex, and less cinematic than they used to.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Riftworm

[J.E. Sawyer]

[quote name='

[Llyranor]

No, *I* am.

[Riftworm]

[quote name='

[Jorian Drake]

[quote name='

[Deraldin]

Just for comparison purposes I did up two fully buffed sorcerors for your use here.

 

[17243_1556103691]

Just for comparison purposes I did up two fully buffed sorcerors for your use here.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well those arent "fully buffed" as you're missing spell resitance which was a pretty cool looking spell in NWN1, and shadow shield and of course the post 20 epic spells which were amazing.

 

But working with these two pics - notice that the NWN2 has just 2 circle slapped on there. BNoth of those aren't 3 dimensnional, they're not even 2 dimensional. There is no indication that they encompass the casters body as they did in NWN1. You could circle around the caster with a camera in NWN1 and see that the spells encompassed the caster in 3 dimensions. The photos don;t show that here as they are 2D, but those spells ont he right from NWN2 arent "encompassing" the caster. The one that looks liek a quilt pattern and the other just appear as flat circles.

[Deraldin]

Actually both of them do have Shadow Shield on. But you are right, I did forget spell resistance. I just quickly leveled two sorcerors to level 20 and used the spells that I had from there.

 

Not really fair to compare epic spells as NWN2 doesn't have those.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Deraldin

[17243_1556103691]

Actually both of them do have Shadow Shield on. But you are right, I did forget spell resistance. I just quickly leveled two sorcerors to level 20 and used the spells that I had from there.

 

Not really fair to compare epic spells as NWN2 doesn't have those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well shadow shield cast AFTER the visage spell rather in NWN1. Also missed elemental shield. But you notice how when you circle around the caster in NWN2 , you have no indication they are encompassing the caster in an enclosed 3dimensions? The look ok enough (sans the grandma quilt pattern) but notice how they arent 3D? Just circles slapped on there.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Guest

[Deraldin]

Part of the problem that you are descibing with the lack of 3d feel is because of the positioning of the circle. It doesn't actually reach the ground, it cuts off at about the ankles of the character so you can't get the circle around the ground.

 

Shadow Shield After Visage: Yes, I just cast everything starting with the level one spells and worked my way up, because the lower level spells had the longer duration. I could try again in reverse. If I use extend spell I should be able to get them all in before the first ones run out. There are a good 30 spells active on that character...

 

NWN2 spell effects: The problem isn't the effects themselves from what I see, it's that so many of them have the same sphere pattern. At least half of the spells on that character have a sphere going around the character, but when you have that many it makes it hard to differentiate between the effect from one spell and the next. A little more variety (IE, fewer spheres around the character) would likely clear that up somewhat.

[Hurlshort]

Uh, they both look like snowglobes. I see what people are saying about the 3D effect that NWN1 nailed. I just don't really care. I enjoy both spell effects. I think the actual character models in NWN2 are so far above what I had in NWN1 that it just doesn't bother me.

 

edit: Thanks Deraldin for posting an actual comparison shot!

Edited November 25, 2006 by Hurlshot