NWN2: Discussion

[Pop]

I just noticed something slightly amusing on my cloth map. It looks like the location of crossroad keep is called "Helms Hold" on the map. I wonder if they were "borrowing" a bit of inspiration from The Two Towers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's actually from NWN1, where you fight Desther at the end of the first act. Most people didn't get that far. Helm's Deep is from TTT (I made a little bridge ^_^ ). For what it's worth, there are LOTR references all over the ****in' place in D&D, as there should be, and Helm, god of duty, might be one.

 

No idea why that'd be on a NWN2 map, though.

 

*editzorz - Say, I've got my little art book that came with the Special Edition of the game, and there's a barbarian chieftain dude in there who I haven't seen in the game. Black Raven clan or something (don't have the book on me, unfortunately) Cut material, perhaps? Would've been nice to have barbarian warriors fight for you at Crossroads Keep.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Pop

[Gromnir]

I just noticed something slightly amusing on my cloth map. It looks like the location of crossroad keep is called "Helms Hold" on the map. I wonder if they were "borrowing" a bit of inspiration from The Two Towers.

 

Anyway, I had the "oddest" combat with a duo of dragons that I can remember (ok, so it's the only game where I've ever fought two dragons at the same time but never mind that). Trying to do less powerplay and just bring a mix of party members to see Nolaloth, I brough Zhjaaeve (Sp?), Grobnar, Sand and Elanee (and myself, an Eldritch knight). As it turned out, it wasn't much of a fight. Sand brought down the hitpoints of the first enemy with two well placed Meteor Swarms. Easy kill, even for a non combat oriented party. Now for the real killer... Sand killed the second dragon outright with a finger of death spell. They hadn't even chewed their way through my first stoneskin yet before they were lying on their backs, all four limbs jutting into the air. I guess even dragons can fail their fortitude save...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if you plays tob with the boss fights enhancements that returned such encounters to original designed difficulty, you can fights a pretty tough battle with multiple dragons... 'course you is gonna be 'round level 25 or 30 at the time o' fight. Gromnir actually had to reload the demogorgon and dragon boss battles a few times 'fore we beat 'em.

 

bg2 dragons were kinda fun battles, but the right combinations of sequenced sr lowering spells 'long with greater malison and dooms were meaning that a few castings o' chromatic orb would fell almost any dragon... which seemed kinda cheap.

 

nevertheless, Gromnir were a little sad after killing full-powered klauth in 'bout 5 seconds in nwn.... but 3.0 harm were a serious busted spell.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fionavar]

Okay I have a question - is there a way to make use on an NPC with a superior Appraise than my main character? If I choose the character as the 'Leader' in the queue on the right bar, the game still reverts to my character when I engage in barter with a merchant.

[Spider]

I think the game uses the appraise of whatever character is selling the item in question. I noticed that if my main character carried an item, it would fetch a higher price than if another party member did (and buying stuff was cheaper as well).

 

Could be the Merchant's Friend feat rather than appraise that made the difference.

[Fionavar]

See that is what I thought so I tested it ... I had my main character level up and also increased the Appraise skill, lo and behold a better price. BUT, when I tried to have the character with the far superior skill try to sell an item, the price was the same as my main character.

[metadigital]

I was disappointed to find a similar result with my experimenting: not just appraise, but the conversation skills, too (bluff, taunt, etc).

 

Basically you have to use your PC.

[Gfted1]

Interesting. So there is no benefit at all to invest skill points in NPC's in anything other then fighting skills?

[Tale]

Interesting. So there is no benefit at all to invest skill points in NPC's in anything other then fighting skills?

NPCs can still craft.

[Spider]

NPCs can help out with conversation skills on occasion. It's kinda rare though.

[Gfted1]

Thats good to know in case I ever try to finish the game. I normally just choose the "recommend" option on the NPC's because I dont know what the hell Im doing anyway.

[Fionavar]

I was disappointed to find a similar result with my experimenting: not just appraise, but the conversation skills, too (bluff, taunt, etc).

 

Basically you have to use your PC.

 

I just scoured Bio's boards and this indeed is the case. Too bad - perhaps a mod or patch will help with this.

[Pop]

I remember a time that Khelgar intimidated for me :\ and Sand had to have had a few substituted lore checks.

[alanschu]

I don't necessarily mind that some stuff is only PC specific though.

 

 

Otherwise, some of those choices in character development don't necessarily mean anything. The same thing happened in KOTOR 2 with item deconstruction. If any person could deconstruct it, there was pretty much zero incentive for the PC to ever put skills in repair, since there was already a few that had it.

 

It's gamey, but it ultimately lead me to have differing playthroughs through KOTOR 2.

[Tigranes]

Yes, your PC pretty much does everything. It leads to silliness when you have your thief sneak around scouting the place out, but then you enter a room where dialogue is automatically initiated (what with their all-seeing eye of Scriptzor) and your PC is instantly teleported there so he/she can speak to them.

 

I believe the Bandit house in act 1 is a classic example, as is Fihelis' house.

 

Anyway, I had laid off on NWN2 a bit after finishing it twice; are there any interesting modules out there yet (I assume not), or tools, or OC modifications worth looking at? All I really use ATM is some UI mods.

[Deraldin]

Yes, your PC pretty much does everything. It leads to silliness when you have your thief sneak around scouting the place out, but then you enter a room where dialogue is automatically initiated (what with their all-seeing eye of Scriptzor)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Someone should make a mod where you have to deal with the mighty Scriptzor. Every time you fight him he teleports away moments before you kill him. In order to defeat him you need to track down the hidden programmer. In order to enlist his aid you need to find the three special items which are then used to blackmail him.

[Gorth]

Someone should make a mod where you have to deal with the mighty Scriptzor. Every time you fight him he teleports away moments before you kill him. In order to defeat him you need to track down the hidden programmer. In order to enlist his aid you need to find the three special items which are then used to blackmail him.

You have to trick him. Lead him out into the middle of the floor and then pull the lever for the trap door. He'll fall down into a pit full of rabid users ^_^

 

It is pretty annoying though, that your protagonist becomes the chosen one, every time you have some kind of interaction with other npcs. You can have somebody else with superior conversation and appraise skills, but in the end it will always be your protagonist who gets chosen for the talking and bargaining.

 

I also wonder if it is for the sole purpose of rendering tracking mode, listen and spot skills useless that several places uses hook horrors instantly spawning opponents?

Edited January 5, 2007 by Gorth

[Tigranes]

I don't know the reasoning behind Obsidian's decision on that either, but it seems to me that it doesn't serve a very positive purpose.

 

Anyway, if there are no gameplay OC modifications or standalone modules worth playing right now (as it seems), I might just complete BG saga again. Played about the first half of BG1 and it really is still excellent, the combat is still a lot more fun for me than NWN2 (or NWN1, K1/2, JE...)

[Pop]

I remember Feargus talking about how CNPC skillz would be a new and interesting part of the game. Maybe it was part of the game that got cut when Sawyer came in? Or maybe Feargus was lying with words

 

Anyway, if there are no gameplay OC modifications or standalone modules worth playing right now (as it seems), I might just complete BG saga again. Played about the first half of BG1 and it really is still excellent, the combat is still a lot more fun for me than NWN2 (or NWN1, K1/2, JE...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that. You can play as a spellcaster and actually feel like you've got a powerful character. My 5th lvl sorcerer is cleaning house right now. Maybe that's just with all the fixins' of BGtutu. I remember BG being pretty hard back in the day.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Pop

[Tigranes]

I'd say the latest Tutus are pretty similar now, especially if you have Tutufix and Tututweak or whatever it's called. The main difference in mine is that because I use faster BG2 walking speeds, ranged weapons aren't as awesome as they were in BG1 vanilla (where you can just shoot everything down before they reach you).

 

I still don't have a fireball, it's a travesty. I have this compulsive disorder that before I go to the bandit camp I must explore all areas south of Beregost (except Durlag's Tower); so I did everywhere west, and now am doing Firewine Bridge. It was really great in one map where i used Charm Person on Zat (the guy that throws Darts really fast), killed his companions, ran up to the top of the map where that encounter with Sendai and the 2 lackeys are, and then had Zat help me take them down. They fire really powerful arrows for level 3 characters.

 

I remember Feargus talking about how CNPC skillz would be a new and interesting part of the game.

 

Well they are, kinda. Just not conversation / appriase skills.

[Pop]

Well they are, kinda. Just not conversation / appriase skills.

True, but I remember him talking about convo skills specifically I can't remember if it was in one of the videos they released prior to shipping or from those developer diaries that Gamespot featured. Either one.

[alanschu]

Well they are, kinda. Just not conversation / appriase skills.

True, but I remember him talking about convo skills specifically I can't remember if it was in one of the videos they released prior to shipping or from those developer diaries that Gamespot featured. Either one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, there were quite a few times when I tried lying/bluffing, and after failing, Neeshka would chime in instead. Same goes for Kelgar and Intimidate, and sort of stuff like that.

 

I don't remember games off the top of my head that seemed to use it as extensively.

[aVENGER]

Anyway, I had laid off on NWN2 a bit after finishing it twice; are there any interesting modules out there yet (I assume not), or tools, or OC modifications worth looking at? All I really use ATM is some UI mods.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You might want to take a look at Even's mods. He has a 3.5 edition hak which brings the game a bit closer to PnP and an AI hak which makes the henchmen behavior more tolerable. There's also the Complete Craftsmen which lets you customize items even further.

[Spider]

Amen to that. You can play as a spellcaster and actually feel like you've got a powerful character. My 5th lvl sorcerer is cleaning house right now. Maybe that's just with all the fixins' of BGtutu. I remember BG being pretty hard back in the day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A fiarly classic example of playerskill affecting difficulty. I thought BG1 was very hard when I first played it, now it's fairly simple. Having access to a sorcerer certianly doesn't hurt though.

 

But try playing with the Sword Coast Stratagems mod (completely tutu compatible), some of the fights are really tough after that. Especially the chess game and the one versus the demon cult. The demon cult fight in particular had me pulling my hair. It's not as bad as some of the BG2 Tactics fights though. But fun.

 

Someone should make a tactics stule mod for NWN2.

[Fionavar]

Another question: Do merchants restock items (i.e. magic arrows)?

[aVENGER]

Nope, and they never restock their gold either (unless you buy expensive items from them) so it's possible to "bleed a shop dry" if you continuously sell items to a single merchant (i.e. Sand).